Russian 5th Generation Stealth Fighter PAK-FA has flown.

reply to post by muzzleflash


I don't think their philosophy is the same as the americans.

They must start to keep up, or the USAF will be so powerful that any other aircraft doesn't stand a chance.

Although they made some steps thowards stealth (like lowering the radar signature, with hidden missiles and whatnot) they didn't take too many efforts in making it completely stealth, like the exhaust system.

I think their approach is to make a BETTER fighter/bomber, but also keep the price the lowest possible.

Also, they talked lot about a new automatic defense system. Maybe that's is made to overtake those problems with the "less stealth" approach.

Originally posted by centurion1211
I immediately thought the same. Eiter it has taken the russians this long to try and copy the F-22, or maybe the obama administration just gave them the plans.

Or maybe the Sukhoi designers came to the same conclusions the Lockheed Martin and Northrop ones did when it came to packaging aerodynamics, fuel efficiency, low radar cross section and internal weapon bays?

After all, a stealth plane isn't going to look like a brick, is it?

Found this on keypub forums:

- It is said that this Thursday will be the first flight of Fifth-Generation Fighter. Meanwhile in the U.S. the prototype heavy fighter YF-22 took off back in 1991. Now the U.S. Air Force has more than a hundred front-line F-22s. Why are we so far behind the U.S.?

Before the collapse of the Soviet Union, the rate of fifth-generation fighter development in both countries were generally comparable. The prototype aircraft developed by Russia's Mikoyan firm (product 1.44) was ready to fly in 1994-1995, but due to lack of financial resources has made two flights in 1999 alone, and the programme was discontinued.

In conditions of chronic under-funding of Russia's military-industrial complex, it was not possible to create such a complex weapons system, like fifth-generation fighter, equal to U.S. standards. In fact, the normal budget Financing project was open only in 2005-2006, but up to this point work was carried out mainly at Sukhoi's own expense. From this point of view, if we can assume that the real hard work on the PAK-FA programme began only in mid-decade.

In addition, by following the Americans we can minimize the conceptual and technical risks, to avoid the mistakes that were committed by the leader of the race. Also note that Russia remains the only country, except the United States, with a capability to create a fifth generation fighter.
In the World there'll probably be only three such states- the United States, Russia and China.

- Why was Sukhoi declared the winner of the 5th gen fighter contest when MiG, as you said, already had a flying prototype of this aircraft?

Full article:

www.mk.ru...

Good read. Seems that Pak-Fa won't have any fancy stealthy design, but more "conservative" one. And 5 radar antenas...Hence the giant stinger.

This link should work:
www.mk.ru...

Ok you need to google translate unless you can read Russian.

[edit on 1-2-2010 by flyingfish]

It's time for the red, Mother Russia to advance! Really, its not so smart to fight with robots though when the Russians can take down our cyber security anyday.

Originally posted by minkey53
reply to post by Jinni

 

Mates of mine were in the first Gulf War in 1990 and they were told to stop where they were (advancing on the Iraq Army on foot and in vehicles). It was night time by the way!

Then two Black Triangular Craft came across from the left hand side to where the Iraq Army was (about 2 miles in front of them). The craft were about 100 feet across and could be seen against the stars in the sky, about 100 feet high up!

Beams of light like a laser beam that was blueish in colour came down in short bursts from the triangular craft, lot of short almost like pulses of light.

When they were told to move forward, they found the Iraq Army guys vapourised, like piles of dust in amongst their clothing. Some were very badly burnt, bits were left.

So what type of technology is that and we're talking 20 years ago now!!!!

A patrol of soldiers down here on Salisbury plain came across a landed black triangle.A pilot came out of it wearing black and the stars and stripes badge on his uniform.He had a small rod in his hand that somehow paralized the the troops-then insulted the limeys got back in the craft and took off.
Another black triangle was sighted over the a conservative member of goverments house that was seen by passes by-the media breifly reported this but the story died
Concerning the vapourised Iraqi guys,sounds like the same thing when a russian base fired upon a UFO hovering over them but I hear that it was a highly focused sonic weapon that resonated at a certain freq

To the op,sorry to go off topic!Thats a good looking plane,after reading ats for a few years I was under the impression that russia wasnt doing the stealth fighter route and had instead focused resources and man hours into getting the best radar that can pick up anything.

Originally posted by maloy
Since this is the first fifth generation fighter to be produced outside of the US (and its partners for F22/F35), it would be interesting to see the demand for it on the global defense market. With the right marketing approach Russia could profit handily from its sales. Obviously India will have their own production version developed, but I could see some Asian, Middle Eastern, and South American clients who would be willing to pay for this fighter.

What remains to be seen is how well Sukhoi meets deadlines, but so far I don't think that the presented time frame for the project (placed in service by about 2015) is unrealistic, but Sukhoi has its work cut out for it.

Oh, Im sure that Sukhoi intends to compete with the US for customers. I think the F-35 will be ready for sale before the T-50 however.

But then again sukhoi will probably offer their product at a reduced price while the F-35 is likely to be a high dollar item for many years to come and will probably be sold to the more wealthier US clients like (UK, Australia, etc.)

Also, I think there is a maintenance agreement for the F-35 to maintain it's software. Im not sure if Sukhoi has similiar restrictions.


[edit on 2-2-2010 by NightoftheComet]

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by centurion1211
I immediately thought the same. Eiter it has taken the russians this long to try and copy the F-22, or maybe the obama administration just gave them the plans.

Or maybe the Sukhoi designers came to the same conclusions the Lockheed Martin and Northrop ones did when it came to packaging aerodynamics, fuel efficiency, low radar cross section and internal weapon bays?

After all, a stealth plane isn't going to look like a brick, is it?

Are you saying the U.S. came up with the only design, and that's why the russian plane looks so much like it?

To show the obvious BS in that logic, one only has to look at 3 different U.S. stealth planes (that we know about) - F-22. B-2, and F-117.

None of them look at all alike, but they are all quite stealthy.

BTW, the black triangle posts preceding this one are quite intriguing. Anyone seen any black triangles - because it's the only possible design - with red stars on them?

There are stories out there about a mysterious UAV spotted over Afganistan.
There are even blurry images, I would post them but they look exactly like the Taranis and or it's similar counterpart the X-47B.Both are US assets.
However the Russian Scat looks very similar to them as well.No one is claiming responsibility for the drone.
We seem to be living in a world where concept is reality..

Raven


X-47B



Taranis

reply to post by centurion1211


You do know that the F-117 has a stealth signature that equivalent to a small l fighter with some RAM paint? It utilizes faceted stealth which is old-school and incomparable to the stealth utilized by newer fighters like the F-22, and the F-35? Plus its flight envelope is extremely restricted.. so its pretty much a nothing in today's world.

The B-2 is a bomber and its $500+ a piece.. Stealth is its only defence and as such if it is spotted and/or tracked by a combination of electronic (albeit faint) and visual means, its a goner.. the F-22 has other defences like supercruise, wider flight envelope and thus is more versatile.

Is an F-22 stealthier than a B-2. Don't know, not many do.. I doubt it. Will all stealth fighters pretty much look like the F-22.. probably... will most stealth bombers look like the B-2... probably..

How does the X-47 et al play into this? Well one needs to review operational capabilities of the aircraft, mostly along the lines of eventual numbers, weapons loadout and radar. Its an unknown as of now.

Suffices to say that the rest of the world is catching up and the F-22 will not provide insane kill ratios against this new russian entry.

The Sukhoi is starting to look like will it fill a multiple roll of ground attack and air superiority.With it's five radar points it seems to be looking to seek out stealthy adversaries,could be the answer to high tech stealth."High tech Radar". With Lots of internal space for bombs and missiles,this plane could be very dangerous for any foe.



[edit on 3-2-2010 by flyingfish]

Specs:



Here is a three view pic courtesy of Paralay..
translating:
Top view: 33.22
Side view: 134.72
Front view: 11
Volume: 36.65 m^3

That way max take off mass of 37000kg is confirmed:
Normal take off mass 26000kg
Empty weight 18500kg
Fuek: 11000kg
Combat load 7500kg (over 14 total hardpoints)

Wing area 104m^2.

Air intake area 1.06m^2 wich coresponds to engine compressor diameter of 1.16m^2. Izdelie 117 has 0.932m^2. Suspect that Izdelie 129, the planned 5th gen motor is planned for 18500-19500kgf on afterburner, 11000kgs max w/o afterburner.

Bay volumes:
Main bays: 3.14 * 3.0 * 0.38 = 1.53m^3 * 4 bays = 6.12M^3.
Side bays: 0.08m^2 * 3.5m = 0.28m^3 * 2 bays = 0.56m^3(bay dimensions 0.3*0.3*3.5m)
total bay volume: 6.12+0.56=6.7m^3.
Bay to airframe ratio 6.7/36.65 = 18%.

Originally posted by QuantumDeath
It's time for the red, Mother Russia to advance! Really, its not so smart to fight with robots though when the Russians can take down our cyber security anyday.

Really, any proof for that claim.

the only way for a F22 to get insane kill ratio's is when it has awacs support and the enemy does not.

In an non awacs situation most of the time the most stealthy part of the F22 will not be pointed towards the enemy radar and if that enemy radar is not too old, it will detect the F22.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Are you saying the U.S. came up with the only design, and that's why the russian plane looks so much like it?

No. What I'm saying is that in order to achieve stealth, carry weapons and be useful, only certain configurations and shapes are going to be possible.

To show the obvious BS in that logic, one only has to look at 3 different U.S. stealth planes (that we know about) - F-22. B-2, and F-117.

None of them look at all alike, but they are all quite stealthy.

Well - to coin a phrase - to show the obvious BS in your assumption about these planes, the only reason they look like they do is because the design computing power available at the time of their developments, and the various radar absorbent materials each uses has advanced a generation in each case, from the Have Blue prototype that was the basis of the F-117 through to the F-22 and F-35 (the latter of which owes 70% of its existence to the Yakolev-Yak 141 Freestyle VTOL Supersonic fighter developed by the Soviets just prior to the end of the cold war by the way)

The Russians are designing stealthy aircraft with the latest technology, which is why the Pak-Fa looks like it does.

You should know - and its apparent that you don't, that the reason the F-117 existed in the first place is because of the published works of Pytor Ufimtsev, a Soviet mathematician, who figured out that radar returns are nothing to do with size, and everything to do with shape.

reply to post by Russian soldier


John McCain better watch his back, as apparently he's Georgian.

I think I just wet myself a little

This is a beauty, almost trumps the SU-37 itself. For the glory of the motherland

New pix up:

pilot.strizhi.info...

reply to post by Russian soldier


Thanks for the link,will help with my model.

Nice! Be sure to post pics of your model when you are done.