Addiction: Fact or Fiction?

using a drug is a choice and those who are addicted are simply weak. I understand the pains of withdrawal. It is usually no more severe than a bad case of the flu.

Im going to go ahead and say you have NO idea of what you are talking about.

In fact, AA/NA are RELIGIOUS programs and when criminal addicts are forced, through court orders, to enter these programs, it is a violation of First Amendment rights (In the United States of America, which I am not a citizen).

If you were a citizen you would know that there are non religious AA and NA groups and courts can order you to go to drug treatment and it is not always AA or NA. Since you believe that drug use is a choice you could see that the state does not make people go to rehab it is a choice they get. They can go to a rehab or go to jail.

[edit on 29-1-2010 by zaiger]

reply to post by zaiger


Why don't I know what I'm talking about? It's very easy to just say someone doesn't know what they're talking about, but it's a lot more difficult to actually prove them wrong. I have GONE through withdrawals. They are usually quite a terrible time, just like a flu. Muscle aches, headaches, dizziness, vomiting, diarrhea and fatigue...

And as I said - I am NOT a citizen of the United States.

The choice is between being forced upon doing something against your will (that doesn't even work most of the time) or going to a detention center (which will definitely not work at all)... how is this supposed to help junkies? Other than ruining their lives and their families lives?

I have no care for posts like yours. You simply come in here telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about without giving any reason whatsoever.
I appreciate your insight into the non-religious rehabilitation - however I have not found any non-religious AA/NA programs - care to link me to some?

Originally posted by LususNaturae
reply to post by zerbot565

 

But if you try and FORCE somebody to not do anything bad for a few weeks, after the four weeks they're just gonna go out in full force; after all they've been waiting to get a hit for 4 weeks and 4 weeks is hardly enough time to fully convert a recovering junkie into a Hardcore Christian Fundamentalist who gets high off the Power of the Lord.

I can just imagine some ex-junkie running out of an NA building telling "I RENOUNCE YOU HEROIN FOR NOW I HAVE THE POWER OF CHRIST IN MY VEINS!"

Actually it takes 28 days to make or break a habit, good or bad, but as I said in my previous post the environment plays the most important roll on the success. In any case one needs motivation, and in some cases extreme motivation, and I’m sure if religion wasn’t already a huge motivator for a person I doubt AA religious jargon will do anything to help. I do think though the buddy system would help some, but if you do not leave the environment that made you a junkie etc you will need extreme motivation since the environment will continue to drive the need even long after the physical habit is gone.

[edit on 30-1-2010 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by LususNaturae
I've encountered and am friends with many self-proclaimed addicts. I too smoke cigarettes and I often go days without smoking one. If you believe that you are addicted, you're GOING to be addicted. Likewise, if you believe you have control over yourself, you'll have control over yourself.

This applies to a psychological addiction. Yes a nicotine addiction is HALF psychological(maybe 100% for some people.) If you believe you have control over your addiction, yes you will have control over your psychological addiction, yourself and part of your physical addiction.(absolutely agree this could help %100 with any addiction. but not believing in the physical addiction won't make it disappear.)

Nicotine is a whole different ball game in terms of addictions though. No other drug is so heavily marketed and bombarded towards us in every direction. EVERY movie that comes out of hollywood has at least one scene where somebody is smoking.

..and 50 scenes of people drinking coffee.

those 'quit smoking' ads are even worse god, before when i smoked a heck a lot more i used to always fiend for a smoke right after those ads cigarettes everywhere!

Totally agree, just a modern way for tobacco to advertise smoking and their new nicotine products. "and if you like the taste, you'll keep using it"(Nicorette) keep using it? whats the point then? Their definitely playing with peoples addictions and in this case the psychological aspect is the key factor in someone going for a smoke.(Having the will power to not smoke after the add doesn't disprove physical addictions, just means you weren't really physically craving a smoke.)

withdrawal symptoms exist but they aren't permanent

This is the definition of a physical addiction. No one claims it's permanent. I think your thinking of everything as a psychological addiction which is the same as wanting to play Xbox or WOW. I indeed do not believe in the term "psychological addiction" and I've observed many internet sites and news stations trying to blur the line between physical and psychological addiction. lots of people trying to get rid of the word 'psychological' so that they can simply apply the word "addiction" to anything they want to make it look bad whether theirs scientific evidents to back it, or not.

Physical addiction withdrawals cannot simply be controlled by denying them. This is why we have the terms psychological and physical addiction.
I agree though with the basics of the thread, that people can use tactics to make people that would otherwise easily overcome their addiction, fail to do so. Simply by making them think the psychological aspect of addiction has so much power. Whether it be a tobacco company or a rehab.(both have potential motive to keep you hooked.)

I don't believe the whole nicotine more addicting than heroin thing. It's pretty obvious a peeved off person has it better then one puking their guts out barley able to function. More keep smoking tactics, I say.

If addiction was all just "in your head" why do heroin addicts always puke and not function while nicotine addictions get angry. If it was all in the head, everyone would have ether unique withdrawals with the same drug or the same withdrawals for every drug.

reply to post by Bumr055


Thank you very much for your reply (I sense you are a follow Canadian).
You're absolutely correct about a lot of the things you said.

Interesting you speak about the differences in between 'psychological' and 'physical' addiction. I understand the point about the heroin and nicotine withdrawals and how heroin users have a much worse withdrawal... Actually, I hadn't really given it much thought until you posted about it, but I definitely did have the lines blurred there. Psychologically speaking perhaps nicotine and heroin are equally addictive, but physically speaking heroin is a much worse drug to be quitting 'cold-turkey'.

I don't say that we should ignore withdrawals - but we have to be aware that the physical symptoms of withdrawal are only temporary - lasting a few days at worst if you quit 'cold-turkey'. In fact in those few days you'll probably be acutely, painfully aware of the physical withdrawal... might even be impossible to ignore it or to truly believe it doesn't exist. Yet one must remain assured that it is only temporary and will not last forever and that one will come out of the experience better off for it, rather than continuing a destructive cycle of drug use forever onwards.

And we can see that criminalization of drugs does not deter these people at all, btw. (just had to add that in there)

hubpages.com...

It is not religious... Get over it.
Nobody is having religion forced on them. They are given a choice rehab (which is not religious) or jail. There are some religious rehabs but you do not have to go to those, you can pick a non-religious one or go to jail.

Originally posted by zaiger
hubpages.com...

It is not religious... Get over it.
Nobody is having religion forced on them. They are given a choice rehab (which is not religious) or jail. There are some religious rehabs but you do not have to go to those, you can pick a non-religious one or go to jail.

Did you even read that web page?

Although AA is explicitly and intentionally non denominational, and accepts that every one needs to have their own interpretation of "a higher power" the fact remains the AA is very close to a Christian organization.

AA is in fact so religious in nature that the Supreme Court recently ruled that courts could no longer mandate that people participate in meetings as this constitutes a violation of the separation between church and state.

You could have just said this; AA is STILL a religious organization.

Yet, further on in that website

One example of a higher power that some atheists have used is a form of "mother nature" or science; something unexplained and bigger than themselves.

That still seems an awful lot like... forcing them to pick something to worship in order to 'cure' themselves...

But it has to be authentic, and you have to really believe it for it to work, and some people just can’t make the metaphysical leap to do so; and for them, unfortunately AA offers little recovery assistance.

Aww. Those who can't make metaphysical leaps are going to be addicts for the rest of their sad little lives. Boo hoo.

So, zaiger, maybe instead of just coming into topics and saying people have no idea what they're talking about, perhaps, when you try to debunk somebody... you ought to read the link you provide first?

...because when you find god, your past life of "addiction" is forgiven ......

and the logic flies out the window.

reply to post by zerbot565


Logic? In MY Alcoholics Anonymous?!

BLASPHEMY!

Seems like you just don't have an addictive personality. Maybe psychological addiction is easy for you to get over, but I've personally seen so many addicts and junkies that I can say without a doubt that addiction is very real. Most of the junkies I've known would (and in many cases did) steal and fight for money to get their fix. I knew a coc aine addict one time so desperate that he literally offered me.... pleasure.... if i would just give them enough money for another gram. I once turned in an opiate addict for stealing from his own mother. Once his mom and I confronted him about it, he broke down and told her everything, which brings me to my next point:

Addicts will only stop being addicts when they want to.
Not to say that addiction isn't a very real thing, but without the desire of the user to stop using, they won't. Maybe you can keep them off drug x, but they'll soon find a replacement in drug Y or drug z.

Go tell some tweakers that addiction isn't real and it's all in their head and see what they tell you.

Anything can be addictive...either physical or mental. I have known people who smoked marijuana every day and were so outrageously mentally addicted to it that it ruined their lives. Yet i have known people who use coc aine and ecstasy on the weekend and have a good job,nice home and are doing well for themselves. So yes addiction is a real thing that occurs through dependance on a substance. Either physical or mental addiction can ruin someones life. The moral of the story is to use any drug in moderation and not to become reliant on it to operate in day to day life.


[edit on 2-2-2010 by Solomons]

reply to post by LususNaturae


This post makes me glad I was able to narrowly escape rehab and ended up stopping on my own will.

reply to post by djon01


I've already told a few of the addicts that I know what I think. Like your hypotheses suggests - these people are unwilling or unable to see things the way I've learned them and are quick to tell me that their personal experience tells them otherwise.

I used to be an addict. I did lots of opiates - never to the point where I had to extort, steal or 'do favours' for for my fix, but certainly to the point where I understand dope sickness and the suffering of withdrawals. I can understand WHY addicts exist, so too can I understand why many addicts are miserable and want so desperately not to be involved with drugs after a certain point.

Now I can tell you all this for it's behind me - thought for a solid half a year I was somewhere else, wherever I was, and that was the latter half of an already doped out year.

After I had had my experiences I stopped. Perhaps it was because many of my friends moved away, perhaps it was the sharp increase in the price of drugs (the prices had almost doubled for my drug of choice), and perhaps it was in part of all my friends who had been coc aine addicts had quit using and I found myself isolated in what was once a lush, drug addled paradise.

I am not immune to addiction, but does it really exist on a scientific basis? That was the argument of this topic. I have experienced tolerance, withdrawal, physical cravings, mental cravings... I have no doubt in my mind that addiction CAN (and may) be used to EDUCATE, but it should most decidedly and definitely not have any sort of legal basis, because like a lot of people here have said - A User will not stop using until he or she DECIDES for THEMSELVES that they want to stop using.

There is no cure for those who self-medicate, other than self-imposed cures.

reply to post by pexx421


Really? Yeah the medicinal opportunities are amazing. It is truly tragic the medicated big pharma mentality that permeates much of the medical community. I got over my bad habits by good family, and good friends. They helped my sober up. It was not easy, but I never felt I had a disease. Feeling sorry for yourself, blaming something, or creating justifications is never helpful. What you got todo is come to terms with WHY you were taking whatever you were taking in the first place. You don't drink to black out or do a rail day in and day out bc u like the feeling. It does feel good, but really it is too distract from what is really tearin u up inside.

reply to post by stephinrazin


Star for your post. And quite right - addiction shouldn't be considered a disease (at least, by addicts)... whether it is or not is entirely up for debate but I believe it isn't. Glad to hear things worked out well for you.