Against No-Soul-ism Buddhism

Electricneo is spot-on.

It's very easy to get caught up in notions.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Buddhism is atheistic

For Buddhism to be atheistic theyd have to be walking around proclaiming "There is no God! There is no God!"

Its popular to think Buddhism is like Atheism but it really isnt. Various versions of Buddhism (Buddhism comes in Versions - each to his own), acknowledge a Source even if that Source is not personified.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Buddhism is atheistic

For Buddhism to be atheistic theyd have to be walking around proclaiming "There is no God! There is no God!"

Again, you are trying to project the Buddhist way of thinking into Western metaphor, and that never works too well. Buddhists don't care if there is God or not, and they don't care to proclaim or refute the existence of such.

Its popular to think Buddhism is like Atheism but it really isnt. Various versions of Buddhism (Buddhism comes in Versions - each to his own), acknowledge a Source even if that Source is not personified.

It can't be. Think about it. And... there is no source.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Again, you are trying to project the Buddhist way of thinking into Western metaphor, and that never works too well. Buddhists don't care if there is God or not, and they don't care to proclaim or refute the existence of such.

You began by saying Buddhists are Atheistic, so its you who is projecting Western thinking onto Buddhism, not me.

It can't be. Think about it. And... there is no source.

Are you stating as a fact that Buddhists dont believe in a Source of all-that-is?

I consider Buddhism a set of schools of mysticism. The word itself embraces enough philosophies that some Buddhists probably are atheistic, regardless of whether they preach about the nonexistence of God, or are content to meditate and study.

Mysticism - contemplation. Simplicity, lack of the complex coded language of esoteric initiation - which can be a kind of mysticism, and probably in many cases is helpful.

Where is the line drawn between schools of mysticism? Then between schools of Buddhism?

Lack of self, I consider to imply altruism free of self reflection. Not lack of soul.

the less maybes I work in and the more complex my reply becomes, the more likely I am to stub my toe.

The word pragmatism was mentioned. I suppose a great deal of focus could be most beneficially exercised toward solving local problems, then, having done that, toward solving cosmic problems. I don't know if this is Buddhist pragmatism, or me babbling before my library timer runs out.

reply to post by JohntheGood


You asked where the line is drawn between schools of
mysticism/Buddhism. Very good question.

Buddhism is set-up according to levels of realization.
There are 3 general categories or vehicles.
(The Sanskrit word yana means vehicle.
And the main fuel that powers these vehicles is compassion.)

1st level-Hinayana-the lesser vehicle or modest vehicle.*
the realization of the egolessness of the self.
Those who attain this realization are called arhats.

2nd level-Mahayana-the greater vehicle.
(Maha translates as great -Sanskrit)
The realization is the egolessness of the self and phenomena.
Those who attain this realization are called Bodhisattvas.

3rd level-Vajrayana-the diamond vehicle.
Vajra is a Sanskrit word meaning both lightning and diamond.
The vajra-sanskrit or dorje-tibetan is a symbol of indestructibility.

(By the way I don't know if he knows it but on the Jay Leno show
the symbols behind him on his set are Tibetan double dorjes.)

Vajrayana is also called Tantra , Mantrayana and contains various
subsets of realization. Therefore it is a bit more difficult to generalize
realizations into one sentence. Plus I am learning this path and don't know all the realizations.
Saying the end realization is enlightenment may seem too simplistic however ultimate enlightenment is indeed the goal.

A few realizations along the way are the attainment of what
Tibetans call Jalus or Rainbow body.
A Yogic master is able to realize that he/she is a being of light and enter into those dimensions. Mastery of the
3 kayas (Kaya is a Sanskrit word for dimension or body) or Trikaya
has many subsets of realization that also synchronizes with attainment
of siddhis or spiritual / mystical powers.

A person who has access to the Deity dimension or sambhogakaya can be
refered to as a yogi.
A person who builds on this realization and attains lesser siddhis is
called a Siddha.
A person with greater Siddhis is called a Mahasiddha.
(There's that word Maha again.)
A person who becomes fully enlightened is called a Buddha.


*Note- I've noticed there's a tendency in the west to not use the
word Hinayana. The term lesser vehicle has been
going thru a politically correct transformation that many like
myself don't necessarily agree with. For instance if you were to
look at the books Buddhism for Dummies or Buddhism for Idiots or
whatever these series are called the westerners who wrote them
are very uncomfortable with this term. It's because in the West people
try to democratize everything which is good for human rights and
in politics in general but does not apply to Spirituality, the Arts or
the Sciences. Just as in the arts there are artists and muscians more talented
than others and scientists more knowledgeable than others there
are spiritual practitioners more realized than others. It would be awful
if everyone voted on science such as "Flat earth or round earth vote now"

reply to post by ancient_wisdom


I myself have studied Buddism, Christiany, and Satanism, I still would Like to study Islam, and Hinduism, But if there is anything I have learned, Is the real truth of the world. And all the religions have it right, they just have different ways of doing it. But I will tell you the truth to the world. The soul is what makes you think, it is your consiousness, it is your spirit, and it is everything that is not your physical self. Eveything in this world, this place we call earth, Everything around you that hs a physical structure, Is for lack of a better Term, Temporary. But everything consists of a soul, every living thing that is. I have discovered that most plants, animals, and well anything living produces '___', which is what is responsible for dreams. It is called the spirit Molecule. That proves to me that everything is connected. Jesus christ had 12 people that followed him and prayed for him when he needed it. When you pray, simply when you think, you put that thought out into the world. That's Karma. If you have a guilty conscience, then that's just asking for karma to come in and do what you are thinking. That's also where coinsidence comes from. But God is simply the combined conciousness of everything with a soul. It's all of us. That's why it says God is in all of us. Buddism does a good Job of teaching how to except that this world means nothing, because we cannot take anything physical with us when are body dies. Christianity explains how the spirit works, and that everything is connect. Satanism is anything you do for the beinfit of your physical self here on earth, that takes you away from the connectedness of the world. Soo Although I do agree with a lot of Buddism I do not believe you should live your life on a single teaching, because that takes away from the other teaching of the world.

You said it, and put it quite well. I was just telling my girlfriend, as well as reading it outloud what you wrote. It is interesting...that we know we are gonna loose everything in this world. Material and beyond...yet we hold onto it...so tightly...and yet we know we are gonna loose it at some point. WHy not, when the time comes, let it be easier to let go...rather than hard.

I like your point of the material objects...we surround ourselves with them...yet we want to be happy...but we know this isn't making us happy... but we still do it?? lol

I think the movie CONTACT put it quite well...

"what im saying is..do these THINGS make us happier?...does buying a new shirt and 6 months later, throwing it away...does it make us hAPPIER...or are we just trying to fill a void...fill something that we know is missing"...

Well it went something like that... anyhow u get the idea.

Great post, and im gonna be coming back to check up on any new buddhist ideas =]

the whole idea of either antagonizing or limiting oneself to a particular parcel of beliefs compiled by someone or something else boggles me.

vedic hinduism then buddhist led up to the conception of striving for resolution of the individual experience.

whereas abrahamics promise eternal preservation for the individual experience.

doesn't quantum physics prove we're all connected?

Well said ancient wisdom, we are neither this or that only soul and soul cannot be described. Thanks for using this! to point at that which is not this or that.a reply to: ancient_wisdom