I'd say it isn't perfect since people do get cancer and they do die.

These DNA repair systems function to repair the DNA you have.

If you are born with a different DNA then your parent(a mutation of their DNA, wich is normal due to you being born from a DNA mix of both your parents) the DNA Repair functions will fix that DNA, but it won't go and change your DNA to reflect that of one of your parents.

Evolution trough mutations happens trough a subject being born with a mutated genome compared to its parents. If the new design proves to be better or equal to the rest, it will be able to reproduce.

When the new gene setup is mutated in a way that is not benificial to the subject in life, by deformations and malfunctions that cause it to die, have trouble feeding, reproducing or moving, the subject with these genes is likely not able to reproduce.

Thats how evolution trough mutation happens.

Mutation like your talking about would be an induced mutation of the existing genome in a subject instead of the mix of genomes of 2 parents to create a new living organisme with resemblances to the parents but yet a different gene set overal.

Originally posted by MrJingles
I'd say it isn't perfect since people do get cancer and they do die.

Cancer is a cell mutating discease, not an overal gene changing one.

No it isn't perfect as outlined by the last article that I posted the mechanisms wear out over time and are not able to keep up but, like you said people do have genes that mutate and cause cancer. Are these the mutations needed for evolution?

Too many mutations can kill an organism not help it.

Thematrix,

One flaw with the assumption you made above is that there has never been a case of a beneficial mutation.

Originally posted by BlackJackal
Thematrix,

One flaw with the assumption you made above is that there has never been a case of a beneficial mutation.

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying.

Every being is born with a mutation of his parents genomes. The mix of the parents genes by itself is a mutation.

A mix is an alteration of the genome to reflect parts of both parents genome. A mix is a change so that the offspring reflects the genome from both parents, without changing the genome that comes from the parents, you would get a clone of 1 of the parents instead of an offspring.

How is cloning done: One method is by extracting all genetic material out of the egg sack and injecting it with the genetic material of the subject that will be cloned.

How is something born: Eggsack with mothers DNA gets furtilized by the male sperm, DNA mixes and an offspring is born with characteristics of both parents, but yet a unique person.

Mutation : An alteration or change, as in nature, form, or quality. <-- straight out of the dictionary.

We resemble our parents but aren't totaly alike them. We can be taller, smaller, heavyer, lighter, have different collors of hair, different eyes and so on, different everything.

Originally posted by BlackJackal
Thematrix,

One flaw with the assumption you made above is that there has never been a case of a beneficial mutation.

oh really? mutations seem to be beneficial to the HIV virus these mutated strains even beat all the meds that are thrown at it eventaully

A virus mutates because when you administer a drug you kill most if not all of the virus and leave only the ones that are resistant to the drug. These then replicate and pass on the resistant traits they have to their offspring.

Originally posted by BlackJackal
The HIV virus has not mutated. The HIV virus is becoming tolerant of the drugs the same way that you and I would become tollerent of a poison if we were administered it daily for a long while.

Not really BJ, the virus' immunity is genetic. Whereas if I was to drink a lot of alcohol and build up a high tolerance. Any child of mine would not instantly have that high tolerance. Whereas the virus' immunity is passed on from generation to generation.

Virus "immunity" only exists because white blood cells identify and remember a virus succesfully.This information is not passed on from generation to another.the blood cells of the child must identify it again.
Some virus often have an antigen whose shape changes frequently,the blood cells have a hard time with these ones as they have to identify it each time.

Heh, I know that mutations can't make it from molecules to man either but not a single evolutionist has ever been convinced otherwise.

They always have the highly convincing:

Ahhhaaaaaaa but if you have long enough !!!!!

If an evolutionist gives in to the idea that life could not have arisen by chance they are accepting that there is a God.

And we can't allow that now can we ? I mean, if a God exists then he might have rules... and if God makes rules then that means we ain't in charge (shock horror) and God might be angry with us for breaking the rules.

And if you believe in God and evolution ? Man what a waste of time...

If we can breed ~300 new breeds of cattle from the 6 that existed in 1620 when anglos came to the U.S., why cannot God?

Histomes, the 'data-checkers' of DNA, do catch the worst errors. But just like with 'spell-check' on your computer, some errors go undetected. Most mutations ARE harmful and result in death (expressed as misscarriage/neonate mortality).

Because of variations in DNA (between me and you, for example), there is already variation in the gene pool. Where did this variation come from? The original human population was tiny. Just 100 years ago, the earth only had 1 billion people. Now it has six. When Christ was born, there were only 100 million humans on the planet. So why aren't all of us just copies of the first humans? Why doesn't every man look like Adam and every woman look like Eve? If you don't believe in Genesis, there was still an original gene pool that was tiny compared with today. Where did all the variation come from?

Mutation is only one cause of variation in a population. The large number of ways DNA can re-combine in each generation gives some variation. It is in a species' "interest" to have variation, so that the population can survive threats like disease. If every individual is slightly different from his brothers, then maybe they won't all die from the same disease. The one who survives will pass his DNA on to the next generation. That next generation will have better resistance to disease.

By virtue of being alive, you know that you come from a long line of survivors.

What causes mutation? Cosmic radiation is a leader. It is natural, and helps keep variability in the gene pool. The other major cause is transcription errors during cell division. Chemical and other biohazards are new industrial threats that didn't exist for most of history.

The vast majority of mutations are detrimental. A few are useful, though. Blue eyes are very slightly less succeptible to snow blindness. And guess what? northern Europeans frequently have blue eyes. High melatonin (dark skin) has a lower risk of skin cancer, which is a bigger problem in the tropics.... Not that Euros haven't migrated there and lived there for generations. They just tend toward skin cancer. The effect of a subtle mutation like skin color or eye color is tiny, but it does decrease slightly your chance of living to produce another generation of children.


Again, if man Can create new species of dogs, cats, cattle, why can't God. Who designed the DNA we play with?

Originally posted by TenPin
And we can't allow that now can we ? I mean, if a God exists then he might have rules... and if God makes rules then that means we ain't in charge (shock horror) and God might be angry with us for breaking the rules.

The best response to that is probably a quote by our good friend Galileo Galilei:
I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect had intended for us to forgo their use.

Or perhaps Bill Hicks' routine about the 'Prankster God', but Galileo is classier.

[Edited on 28-5-2004 by Kano]

As Einstein said, Dont tell God what to do