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What a damned mess!

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posted on May, 27 2004 @ 02:06 PM
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Things are going well. Sure! The Administration blames the media for not telling the whole story………not citing all the good things and playing up only the bad things implying the media is lying about the true situation in Iraq. But now:

IRAQI POLICE WALK OFF THE JOB

The president said in his speech that after the transfer of power, Iraq's military, police, and border forces "must be the primary defenders of Iraqi security, as American and coalition forces are withdrawn."

But today's WSJ reports( Solidly an Administration’s supporter) "Less than two weeks after graduating from a U.S.-run police academy, almost the entire police force here walked off the job to protest having to work side-by-side with American troops.

Some patrolmen headed back to work yesterday, but with Iraq's resumption of sovereignty fast approaching, the Marines occupying this city are scrambling to figure out whom -- if anyone -- they can trust to keep the streets safe and the insurgents at bay."

What a damned mess!

www.whitehouse.gov...
online.wsj.com...




posted on May, 27 2004 @ 02:15 PM
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Thats what happens when you start a war and have no idea what to do once it is 'won'.

Message to Dubya: Its called 'Forward Planning'



posted on May, 27 2004 @ 02:42 PM
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U.S.-run police academy, almost the entire police force here walked off the job to protest having to work side-by-side with American troops.


They want to try to defend themselves, they did not walk off because they don't feel they can not handle the situation.

The government should now let them try to patrol the streets themselves.
That would be good training.
Things are still not as bad as the media is making it out to be.



posted on May, 27 2004 @ 08:05 PM
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Not as bad as media says?

Because you said so?


Please. Can you expand on that ..........and do so with some facts from recognized and responsible news sources?

And I suppose you would call today’s “peace deal” between Coalition troops and renegade Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr in Najaf a victory like the Administration is attempting to paint it!

I applaud your loyalty, courage and integrity defending the Administration but those distortion-fact twisting twofaced lowlifes does not deserve your efforts. They would leave you on the field as cannon fodder when they don’t need you any more.

Cut your loss’s son before its too late.



posted on May, 27 2004 @ 11:59 PM
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gmcnulty

It would be nice if you could post a link that does not require a subscription.




posted on May, 28 2004 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
gmcnulty

It would be nice if you could post a link that does not require a subscription.



Yes it would be.............. sorry. I'll see if I can cut and paste it and post to this string for you.


Here it is:


Rebuilding Iraq
Iraqi forces walk off job
Members either quit or worked against U.S. in latest uprising
By Connie Cass / Associated Press
WASHINGTON — One in every 10 members of Iraq’s security forces worked against U.S. troops during the recent militia violence in Iraq, and an additional 40 percent walked off the job because of intimidation, the commander of the 1st Armored Division said.
In an interview beamed by satellite from Baghdad to news executives attending the Associated Press annual meeting, Maj. Gen. Martin Dempsey said the campaign in Iraq was at a critical point.
“We have to get this latest increase in violence under control,” Dempsey said. “We have to take a look at the Iraqi security forces and learn why they walked.”
The militia violence aggravated underlying troubles in Iraq’s new military and police forces — the unfulfilled desire for “some Iraqi hierarchy in which to place their trust and confidence” and a reluctance by Iraqis to take up arms against their countrymen, Dempsey said.
“It’s very difficult at times to convince them that Iraqis are killing fellow Iraqis and fellow Muslims, because it’s something they shouldn’t have to accept,” he said. “Over time I think they will probably have to accept it.”
The failure of Iraqi security forces to perform is significant because it could hurt the United States’ overall exit strategy from Iraq, which is dependent on moving U.S. troops out of the cities and handing authority to Iraqis. Officials have said the U.S. military would delay its withdrawal from parts of Iraq until Iraqi forces were ready to take control.
In one example of the problems, on April 5, a newly created Iraqi army battalion of several hundred soldiers refused to join U.S. Marines in their offensive against insurgents in the city of Fallujah.
Dempsey maintained that popular support for the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq is still “very solid.”
But he acknowledged “a form of descending consent” for the U.S. military presence occurring among Iraqis as time passes.
“There is a point where it doesn’t matter how well we’re doing, it won’t be accepted that we have a large military presence here,” he said. “We’re all working very diligently trying to figure out where that point is.”
www.detnews.com...

and at:
www.msnbc.msn.com...

Not the WSJ one I saw and can’t get back to…….but it’s the story. Original ytaken or in whole from AP wire



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 01:08 AM
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I have direct friends who have been there and are there right now.
My best friend is currently in the Navy and was among the first troops over in the Iraq area. He lets me know what is going on. Although he is now over here, his commanders keep the crew in constant update.

Its summed up in this, all of the people I know who have been there and are in the military now, say that things are a lot worse on TV than you would ever guess. They say that over there, they are friends with the Iraqi people. Meanwhile the media claims just the opposite. I do not want to argue and I don't wish to, I am just giving the thoughts I see. Just as you do when you believe what the media tells you (if you do, I don't want to say whether you do or not).

I even saw an Iraqi on tv the other day who was clamoring about how before the war he didn't want it. He had moved away from Iraq when he was a late teenager, but when he went back to visit his family, he saw how desparate everyone was for the war. Now that everything has happened, the people know that in the end they will be free and have true opportunity. These people finally have a ray of hope thanks to our troops and the troops along with us. I dare not disrespect the job being done over there. Freeing a nation is far better than any 40 hour a week job I will do in my life.

The bottom line for me is this, schools are up and running in Iraq. Things are being rebuilt, we still have 138,000 troops over there that the media won't even talk about because they are doing a great job. (I hope noone would argue that)

I just don't believe major media of any kind much anymore. Respected publication or not, it is just what the person writing the article wants to put together. I am not saying that things are going 100% and nothing is wrong. But I will say that it is not as bad as the media makes it out.

And just to ask, how old are you?
You called me son, I was just wondering if I am young enough to be your son or what.

Anyway, I wish some of the trash talking would stop on these boards. I will do my part if everyone else will. I think it would be better if we could all come together and use this forum for what it was meant for.

Thanks.



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 01:12 AM
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Oh and I forgot to mention that whenever a radical muslim backs down I will consider it a victory for our troops. That means that the jerks on the other side won't be shooting at them.

And I am not defending an administration as you say, I am just giving my thought that maybe the media isn't all right all the time.

I mean, the media in my town had me believing that if I go downtown I will get mugged or killed. I go downtown every thursday evening to visit needy kids, noone has ever given me a hard way to go.

Its all about fear and what they want you to believe. Let us all think for ourselves.



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 01:31 AM
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I dont think Al-Sadr 'backed down' he came to an agreement. And as for it not being as bad as the media make it out to be. The majority of the Iraqi people wouldnt want to face up to the American troops coz they're afraid of being dubbed terrorists. As soon as anyone speaks out against the occupation or takes action against it they're dubbed terrorists, not freedon fighters. The man who works in the convenience store at the bottom of my building has family and friends in Iraq, and he says that everyone he's talked to co-operates with the USA but cant see how they're any better off than before. Their just as scared as the were under saddam. They just want america to go an leave them alone. its called a silent majority. most Iraqis sympathise with AL-sadr and his kind, they're just too scared to say anything.



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by gmcnulty

And I suppose you would call today’s “peace deal” between Coalition troops and renegade Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr in Najaf a victory like the Administration is attempting to paint it!



If you don't want to have to BLOW UP, and KILL everyone. You give them
a way out that is not humiliating. Calling it a "peace deal" lets this particular ENEMY save face. It think the superficial semantics are important, in this case.

The reality is we beat them down, they were tired of getting killed, we were getting tired of killing them. And the townsfolk JUST WANTED TO GET ON WITH LIFE.

Now, that is done. We got what we wanted, in other words, we won..



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 02:18 AM
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Iraq is just a mess that will cost us countless more lives and will never be able to be completely democratic (even with our help). I still can't believe I have friends who supported the war.


Alas....



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 09:45 AM
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Well I didnt want to go in there to begin with but since we did here ya go a definative plan to bring peace to Iraq.

Next time we go to war with Iraq (the next government) we should just make it the 51, 52 and 53 or so states. Put govenors and mayors in there then hold elections 3 years later. Kill or inprison anyone not abiding to U.S. laws. Use the oil to build prisons if we must.

Kill anyone who tries to shoot at anyone else. Drop bombs on any mosque (or any building) that has armed men inside without negotiations or care who else is inside (the death of inocents is part of successful war fare). Remember I didnt want to go, but since we did we must do it right? no?

Take the oil and anything else there and convert there schools into western style schools so they can learn something aside from killing from there bibles.

Add Walmart, Mcdonalds, super shoping malls and free internet.

In 3 months Iraq would be peacefull.
In 3 years Iraq would have elections.
In 6 years Iraq will be the richest most happy Arab population on the entire planet.

In 10 years Iraq will be resembling a melting pot of Free america in every way.

Here my friends is the real peace that will prevent us from having to ever go back.

X



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 10:41 AM
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Some now are calling the deal America's Bunker Hill (we being the British)

I make no value judgment on the deal one way or the other but still see the Iraq picture as one big mess.

Had there been a plan to enforce the peace (as there usually is with all military plans to conquer a country) we would maybe not in this mess.

Now, a clown cleric, who had a small town supermarket rag criticizing the USA we shut down, now, has an armed militia numbering in the thousands and is the most popular figure in Iraq( reported by Sen. Santorum this AM on Imus during interview).
Can’t we do anything right?
The Administration says things are good and the media is just blowing things out of proportion just to sell papers and embarrass to Bush. Excuse me?
Now we’re almost up to 800 dead US boys and we’re expected to think things are ‘hunky-dory”?
Please pass the psychotropics, I feel a psychotic attack coming on……..



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 10:55 AM
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I think it`s about time the media was expelled out of areas in iraq.Been speaking to a friend who has just returned from the Basra area.He cannot believe the amount of bad press that is around in Britain at the momment.Apart from a few factions that are using force to turn the population against the forces the majority a supportive and believe that the actions of America and Britain are in there best interest`s.America and Britain should not have allowed the press into this war.America should have learn`t from Vietnam that pictures from a war zone will never gain support,nobody likes to see the death and distruction that is inevitable and now it is adding support to the people who were against it.



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 11:19 AM
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Pulling the press isn’t the answer. Plus can you hear the noise that would make?
You’re right; we folks do not have a stomach for the bloody mess pics. But polls say, a vast majority of USA agrees we can’t pull out and must finish the job. The problem as I see it is Bush is incompetent and doesn’t seem to have one good idea of what going on. Add to that an Administration that seems to be out of control………….it is a mess.
I have been following the Zogby polls………. And you are correct in what you say of the Iraqi population. But by the same token they want us the hell out right now. Go figure!
Yesterday I listened to the debate in the House of Commons. The Irish leader of the Labour Party and member of the House ripped Tony a new Orifice. (His political career is over.) And did a number on Bush and the neo-cons in the Pentagon. One hell of a great speaker – what a speech. Spoke with passion with out notes for 25 fact filled minutes. I was mesmerized.
I have no idea of what to do? But I do know we need a real strong leader who can command some respect from the rest of the world because we’ll require as much help as possible to fix this mess.
Bush can’t do it because he’s insulted everyone we need help from……..so when asked now for help, they give us lip service as they sit on their hands.
The V-P called Kerry out on his world leader’s remark! He wants names? He should have asked, “What world leaders don’t want Bush to loose in ’04?” It would have been easier for Kerry to answer.



[Edited on 28-5-2004 by gmcnulty]



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 02:44 PM
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The one thin i have noticed since the iraq war especially is that America is in a severe down turn in confidance of its leaders and any successor to Bush.I don`t necessarily believe in large conspiraces,but it is starting to look like the people in power are either playing a game that has a differant agenda or that the world is become such an unstable place that control is soon going to be lost.Its hard to explain in words but it feels like something needs to change dramatically.Can`t put my finger on it l suppose time will tell.Lets hope it not to further bloodshead.



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 03:12 PM
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What a load of horsecrap.

Who's word would you take about things in Iraq, a soldier who lives in an Army encampment and is always surrounded by massive firepower and fellow US soldiers, or, you know, IRAQIS?

Does a US soldier REALLY have ANY idea about what the average Iraqi feels about them? Hell no. Do you get an accurate idea about how someone feels toward you when you're toting around an M16?

Nope.

We're talking about Occupiers telling us how the Occupied love them. Because, of course, they really have their finger on the pulse of Iraqi society.

If it helps you to fool yourself into believing they are not all constantly under attack from hateful Iraqis, then go ahead, but it ain't the truth. The truth is that the only way Iraq is united, is in their disdain and rage against the American Occupation Forces.

Ask me to prove it, because you can't prove the opposite since it's not true.


SCHOOLS WERE OPEN BEFORE THE WAR! ELECTRICITY WAS RUNNING BEFORE THE WAR! WOMEN WERE ALLOWED TO GO SCHOOL BEFORE THE WAR!

If you break something intentionally and then fix it, do you deserve congratulations?

No, what you deserve is a lecture on how you shouldn't have broken it in the first place.



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 03:38 PM
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So you believe the iraq before when Saddam was in power was a good place to live.You cannot prove this.Do l believe in W.M.D no l also don`t trust the American leadership because there has never been a war or conflict that America has succesfully been involved in the last 50 years.The soldier i was taking about is not American but British.
Were the people he had spoken to lying.no because the spoke to him in a more polite manner to him than your reply.O.k you don`t believe the war was correct i don`t really care just that you are on a site that questions information but you are certain that your views are correct.I suggest that if you do not believe what my friend has said you should make a trip to iraq and ask the people.
I can prove to you what iraq was like before the War and what it is like now and believe me it is no way good at the momment but the future has better prospects than two years ago.


If you break something intentionally and then fix it,do you deserve congratulations.
Hell yes if you in improve it.


No what you deserve is a lecture on how you shouldn`t have broken it in the first place.
It was allready broken.I am not going to dig out old info on the History of iraq before the war for you to tell me its all a fabrication by America.To quote an old but effective quote "seen it with my own eyes".And for your info women were not allowed to go to school after they reached 9yrs.


[Edited on 28-5-2004 by weirdo]



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 06:33 PM
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Thanks for the reply.......

The down turn is in many ways a question in the effectiveness of leadership. The polls indicate that your assessment is accurate, even with the Bush team "blue sky’ing" GW, the strong leader at every opportunity. "He's no flip-flopper.”, they tout.

I agree. I'd call him 'obstinately pigheaded'. But then I’m bias and am not buying their tripe.

Just think; his handlers allow him out and say things like:

“When I make a decision, I don’t change my mind.” Stay the course…….

I don’t read. I just read the Bible. Said proudly. I say, “Which one?” Or is it both?

And I too have noticed, too. Some decisions are so off policy and not changed one must wonder what’s going on. It’s all very baffling. Either they are so out of control; or there is policy/goals they ain’t sharing with the folks paying the bills.



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 09:33 PM
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I don't know if I would want a president who would decide on one course of action and then change his mind. If that is what you mean by "pigheaded" then I hope he is. The rest of the things you have mentioned I do not understand gc, could you please go into more detail.
Maybe about his policies that you do not like.

Thanks.



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