Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
It's not science, it's myth...Science is based of observable information. Something observable beginning to end that is conclusive, so that it can then be labeled a fact. "Something that goes on even when you stop believing in it"

So in other words, given all those references you provided, and the extreme amount of quotation material, all of it is based on speculation?

Where did this water come from?

All planets with atmospheres contain water in one amount or another

Also, why would you assume "water planet" means liquid form?

Because if the source had been talking about water in solid form, it wouldve refered to it as ice.

Originally posted by DocEmrick
Back to the topic presented, this information falls perfectly into the unsubstantiated reports that TPTB have a strange religious obsession with the planet Saturn, as well as the conspiracy theory that at one time there was an operation that planned to ignite Saturn as a star. Not saying those are true, but they mesh with the material.

Its impossible.

For this to occur you would have to dramatically increase the mass of saturn. Its not feasible to ignite something with such little mass. Jupiter I can understand, (even though its inplausible) but not saturn.

2. Saturn has never had water, its much to cold for water to exist in its liquid form. Plus, the space probes, Pioneer, Voyager 1 and 2 and Cassini has showed that while water is present as ice

Ice is water is it not? You contradict yourself somewhat.

Besides if Saturn is now in a wholly different position, closer to the Earth, wouldnt it be logical to assume that it was also warmer?

edit: I guess I should say water ice is water is it not? the generic common name for all forms of water?

[edit on 27-1-2010 by watcher73]

Originally posted by watcher73
Ice is water is it not? You contradict yourself somewhat.

Besides if Saturn is now in a wholly different position, closer to the Earth, wouldnt it be logical to assume that it was also warmer?

The article claimed that water was present.....not ice....water (especially in scientific terms). When people refer to water in its solid form its called ice...not water...i repeat not water...

There is no evidence to suggest that Saturn was ever that close to Earth either

As the OP kindly pointed out before, all the quotes are based on myth...not fact

[edit on 27/1/2010 by OzWeatherman]

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

The article claimed that water was present.....not ice....water (especially in scientific terms). When people refer to water in its solid form its called ice...not water...i repeat not water...

There is no evidence to suggest that Saturn was ever that close to Earth either

As the OP kindly pointed out before, all the quotes are based on myth...not fact

[edit on 27/1/2010 by OzWeatherman]

Point being that if it was closer to Earth and the sun the water ice you claimed is present now would in fact be water, not ice.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
It's not science, it's myth...Science is based of observable information. Something observable beginning to end that is conclusive, so that it can then be labeled a fact. "Something that goes on even when you stop believing in it"

So in other words, given all those references you provided, and the extreme amount of quotation material, all of it is based on speculation?

Where did this water come from?

All planets with atmospheres contain water in one amount or another

Also, why would you assume "water planet" means liquid form?

Because if the source had been talking about water in solid form, it wouldve refered to it as ice.

So then no water was found on the moon?

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

So then no water was found on the moon?

Or Mars?

Let me both bring you back to this quote:

Saturn and Jupiter had once been much closer to Earth. Saturn was a water planet. More than that, like Jupiter, it had once been a "dark" star.

First off, Saturn and Jupiter have never been that close to earth. Secondly, Saturn was never a water planet. Now when astronomers refer to water planets, they are called"water planets". When scientists refer to ice planets, (eg former planet Pluto), they refer to them as ice planets. Judging by the fact that the people in this article refered to Saturn as a water planet, and speculating that is was closer to Earth, means these people are:

1. Morons

2. Liars

3. Not scientists

Through a near collision of the two, which took place somewhere between five and ten thousand years ago, Saturn erupted in nova-like brilliance. The water it ejected from its body took the form of two watery filaments

Again the referemce to watery filaments. Please explain how single ice crystals can be in a filament shape. In fact explain how a planet can shoot water out of its atmopshere, defying the laws of gravity

which, seven days after the flare-up, hit the Earth and caused the deluge. The water, which fell on Earth in torrential rains, was warm and salty and resulted in more than doubling the Earth's hydrosphere.

Rain does not fall from space, its falls from the troposphere, the lower part of the earths atmosphere. By the way, if the rain was that warm, it wouldnt have travelled through space

Jupiter reacted differently. It fissioned and expelled from itself the comet that was later to cause the catastrophe of the Exodus before turning into the planet we now call Venus.

No, Venus was formed from the same gases which created the rest of the planets

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Let me both bring you back to this quote:

First off, Saturn and Jupiter have never been that close to earth.

You cannot honestly make that statement. It's intellectually dishonest.

Secondly, Saturn was never a water planet.

Or this one.

Now when astronomers refer to water planets, they are called"water planets". When scientists refer to ice planets, (eg former planet Pluto), they refer to them as ice planets. Judging by the fact that the people in this article refered to Saturn as a water planet, and speculating that is was closer to Earth, means these people are:

1. Morons

2. Liars

3. Not scientists

People who make blanket statements about what they cannot know, or what scientists cannot know are #1 and #2.

[Again the referemce to watery filaments. Please explain how single ice crystals can be in a filament shape. In fact explain how a planet can shoot water out of its atmopshere, defying the laws of gravity

What exactly is a single ice crystal? One molecule of water ice?

Rain does not fall from space, its falls from the troposphere, the lower part of the earths atmosphere. By the way, if the rain was that warm, it wouldnt have travelled through space

Or ice that melted in our atmosphere and fell as water?

No, Venus was formed from the same gases which created the rest of the planets

Frozen gases in space forming rocky planets?

[edit on 27-1-2010 by watcher73]

[edit on 27-1-2010 by watcher73]

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
When scientists refer to ice planets, (eg former planet Pluto), they refer to them as ice planets. Judging by the fact that the people in this article refered to Saturn as a water planet, and speculating that is was closer to Earth, means these people are:

1. Morons

2. Liars

3. Not scientists

"Indeed, yes, we found water. And we didn't find just a little bit, we found a significant amount," Anthony Colaprete, LCROSS project scientist and principal investigator from NASA's Ames Research Center at Moffett Field, Calif.

The $79 million spacecraft, preceded by its Centaur rocket stage, hit the lunar surface in an effort to create a debris plume that could be analyzed by scientists for signs of water ice.

Seems to me the evidence suggests that water ice is also called water and water ice. As spoken by not only a scientist, but the lead scientist of said mission.

Originally posted by watcher73

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Let me both bring you back to this quote:

First off, Saturn and Jupiter have never been that close to earth.

You cannot honestly make that statement. It's intellectually dishonest.

Secondly, Saturn was never a water planet.

Or this one.

Actually they are not dishonest, as you have no idea how planets are formed, nor do you know anything about simple astronomy, here's a few quotes of material

Scientists believe that the solar system was formed when a cloud of gas and dust in space was disturbed, maybe by the explosion of a nearby star (called a supernova). This explosion made waves in space which squeezed the cloud of gas and dust. Squeezing made the cloud start to collapse, as gravity pulled the gas and dust together, forming a solar nebula. Just like a dancer that spins faster as she pulls in her arms, the cloud began to spin as it collapsed. Eventually, the cloud grew hotter and denser in the center, with a disk of gas and dust surrounding it that was hot in the center but cool at the edges. As the disk got thinner and thinner, particles began to stick together and form clumps. Some clumps got bigger, as particles and small clumps stuck to them, eventually forming planets or moons . Near the center of the cloud, where planets like Earth formed, only rocky material could stand the great heat. Icy matter settled in the outer regions of the disk along with rocky material, where the giant planets like Jupiter formed.

Notice that only rocky planets were able to withstand the extreme heat near the sun?

If Jupiter and Saturn were closer to Earth, then they would have to be rock based planets, not gas giants. Alos, notice the last sentence about icey matter? Now tell me where it says that water was present on Saturn, or any of the other gas giants for that matter

Here's another quote

The Giant planets do not have the same layered structure that the terrestrial planets do. Their evolution was quite different than that of the terrestrial planets, and they have less solid material.

Saturn's interior composition is primarily that of simple molecules such as hydrogen and helium, which are liquids under the high pressure environments found in the interiors of the outer planets

Again, notice the fact that the main composition of Saturn is hydrogen and helium liquids? (indicating extreme cold). Now that we know that only rocky planets could exist when the earth was formed, we can prove that Saturn has never been close to the Earth, as the compositions are extremely different.

No, Venus was formed from the same gases which created the rest of the planets

Frozen gases in space forming rocky planets?

Again, refer to the first quote to educate yourself on how the solar system formed

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Actually they are not dishonest, as you have no idea how planets are formed, nor do you know anything about simple astronomy, here's a few quotes of material

Now you make statements about what I know and what I dont?

You want to play the "you're stupid game? How does your IQ stack up against 160? Like a tower made of Jenga no doubt.

Scientists believe

I'll just snip the rest of that. Now what do you see genius? Scientists know or scientists believe?

Now maybe you know why youre being intellectually dishonest by stating things as pure fact when the "scientists" dont even state that.

Notice that only rocky planets were able to withstand the extreme heat near the sun?

By your logic the sun wouldnt be able to withstand the heat of itself and disappear.

Now tell me where it says that water was present on Saturn, or any of the other gas giants for that matter

I would dig through your posts until I found where YOU said Saturn has water on it in the form of ice, but you apparently dont remember what YOU say from minute to minute and youd probably wander off on a tangent arguing with yourself.

Here's another quote

Oh boy I cant wait!

The Giant planets do not have the same layered structure that the terrestrial planets do. Their evolution was quite different than that of the terrestrial planets, and they have less solid material.

Does this mean gas planets arent layered at all? Nope. Flip open a 5th grade science text.

Again, notice the fact that the main composition of Saturn is hydrogen and helium liquids? (indicating extreme cold). Now that we know that only rocky planets could exist when the earth was formed, we can prove that Saturn has never been close to the Earth, as the compositions are extremely different.

All this proves is they formed from different materials at different times.

Again, refer to the first quote to educate yourself on how the solar system formed

Someone who cant grasp that the h2o molecule has the common name "water" no matter which state it happens to be in at the time has no right telling others to educate themselves. Especially someone in a field that is wrong 99% of the time.


[edit on 27-1-2010 by watcher73]

Originally posted by watcher73
Now you make statements about what I know and what I dont?

Yes, but only because you proved that yourself

You want to play the "you're stupid game? How does your IQ stack up against 160? Like a tower made of Jenga no doubt.

I assume you have a high IQ.....well good to know, while it may be a sign of intelligence, it doesnt mean that you are able to graps simple facts.

Now maybe you know why youre being intellectually dishonest by stating things as pure fact when the "scientists" dont even state that.

Well, its the closest thing to fact that we know of. As of yet, you have not shown any logical theory to show why the planets were closer to earth than these scientists, nor have you shown any counter theory to that statement. Hardly ther actions of someone with an IQ of 160

Notice that only rocky planets were able to withstand the extreme heat near the sun?

By your logic the sun wouldnt be able to withstand the heat of itself and disappear.

Actually, as you have again proven you know nothing of the differences between the formations of stars and planets. The earth is rocky due to the initial extreme heat from the sun. The outer planets are gaseous because they were far enough away for their gases to cool and liquefy.

I would dig through your posts until I found where YOU said Saturn has water on it in the form of ice, but you apparently dont remember what YOU say from minute to minute and youd probably wander off on a tangent arguing with yourself.

Im going to drop the water ice argument for now, as you clearly cant see that the article stated water being released into space, and the fact that the minute traces of water currently on Saturn exist as ice

Does this mean gas planets arent layered at all? Nope. Flip open a 5th grade science text.

You have taken the term layered out of context, again there is no point in explaining why you are wrong. Seeing as you claim to have an IQ of 160, you should be smart enough to figure out whta context I was using

All this proves is they formed from different materials at different times.

No, this proves that the gases on Saturn quickly cooled and liquefied as its location from the sun (and Earth) was vast.

Someone who cant grasp that the h2o molecule has the common name "water" no matter which state it happens to be in at the time has no right telling others to educate themselves. Especially someone in a field that is wrong 99% of the time.[./quote]

99% wrong, where's that quote from?

Oh and due to what I do for a living, I think I can grasp the term water and what conditions need to be for it to be called ice, super cooled etc. But you would know that, having an IQ of 160 and all

[edit on 27/1/2010 by OzWeatherman]

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Let me both bring you back to this quote:

Saturn and Jupiter had once been much closer to Earth. Saturn was a water planet. More than that, like Jupiter, it had once been a "dark" star.

First off, Saturn and Jupiter have never been that close to earth. Secondly, Saturn was never a water planet. Now when astronomers refer to water planets, they are called"water planets". When scientists refer to ice planets, (eg former planet Pluto), they refer to them as ice planets. Judging by the fact that the people in this article refered to Saturn as a water planet, and speculating that is was closer to Earth, means these people are:

1. Morons

2. Liars

3. Not scientists

Through a near collision of the two, which took place somewhere between five and ten thousand years ago, Saturn erupted in nova-like brilliance. The water it ejected from its body took the form of two watery filaments

Again the referemce to watery filaments. Please explain how single ice crystals can be in a filament shape. In fact explain how a planet can shoot water out of its atmopshere, defying the laws of gravity

which, seven days after the flare-up, hit the Earth and caused the deluge. The water, which fell on Earth in torrential rains, was warm and salty and resulted in more than doubling the Earth's hydrosphere.

Rain does not fall from space, its falls from the troposphere, the lower part of the earths atmosphere. By the way, if the rain was that warm, it wouldnt have travelled through space

Jupiter reacted differently. It fissioned and expelled from itself the comet that was later to cause the catastrophe of the Exodus before turning into the planet we now call Venus.

No, Venus was formed from the same gases which created the rest of the planets

You're attacking myths....good luck....in a hundred years they will be worshiping Kal-el who received his powers from the "Red Sun" and sported a big "S" on his chest....also a saturn reference.

You have to believe what they are selling in order to buy it...and unfortunately that goes for everyone...

Peace

Utter nonsense.

Saturn was not in a different orbit 12,500 years ago.
If it had been close enough for its rings to contact Earth it would have severely affected Earth's orbit. Rather than our nice circular orbit Earth would be have been thrown into a wild ellipse, in all probability it would have been ejected from the Solar System all together.