Aliens can't hear us

Well, to be more accurate, if they are listening just right they may be able to hear us very faintly now. In the future they may not be able to hear us at all.

At least that is what US astronomer Frank Drake thinks..

Aliens can't hear us, says astronomer

Human beings are making it harder for extraterrestials to pick up our broadcasts and make contact, the world's leading expert on the search for alien life warned yesterday.

At a special meeting on the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (Seti), the US astronomer Frank Drake – who has been seeking radio signals from alien civilisations for almost 50 years – told scientists that earthlings were making it less likely they would be heard in space

The reasoning behind this is our shift in broadcast technology.

"The trouble is that we are making ourselves more and more difficult to be heard," said Dr Drake. "We are broadcasting in much more efficient ways today and are making our signals fainter and fainter."

In the past, TV and radio programmes were broadcast from huge ground stations that transmitted signals at thousands of watts. These could be picked up relatively easily across the depths of space, astronomers calculated.

Now, most TV and radio programmes are transmitted from satellites that typically use only 75 watts and have aerials pointing toward Earth, rather than into space.

"Very soon we will become undetectable," he said. In short, in space no one will hear us at all.

If aliens exist and are out there, I'm not sure I buy his arguments. The most common theory is they are more advanced than us. So, how can we assume they are still sitting around listening for old radio waves and haven't moved to new tech themselves?

I think that is why they are going to more direct signals. I think it was Hawking who said it might not be such a good idea to be advertising so much. After all the first worldwide television broadcast was Hitler.

reply to post by Frogs


We were never that easy to hear to begin with. Television signals are omni-directional and become more diffuse the further they travel. I believe at about 2 light-years out they would become impossible to detect. (but please, correct me if I am wrong) That is not even half-way to the nearest star.

Originally posted by Frogs
If aliens exist and are out there, I'm not sure I buy his arguments. The most common theory is they are more advanced than us. So, how can we assume they are still sitting around listening for old radio waves and haven't moved to new tech themselves?

But to answer your question, not necessarily. Just because they have moved on to more advanced technologies does not mean they will have forgotten or forsaken older technology. If their techology evolved similar to humanity's, they would expect less-advanced civilizations to be using radio-signals and thus look for them.

From the article, I find this quote interesting.

"The trouble is that we are making ourselves more and more difficult to be heard," said Dr Drake. "We are broadcasting in much more efficient ways today and are making our signals fainter and fainter."

If that's the case, won't we reach a point where our signals are invisible, and unreadable (with encryption technology)? And if that's the case, wouldn't aliens have mastered this capability eons ago, assuming they're light-years ahead of us in the technology field anyways? And if all of that is true, why are we funding SETI?

Originally posted by timewalker
I think that is why they are going to more direct signals. I think it was Hawking who said it might not be such a good idea to be advertising so much. After all the first worldwide television broadcast was Hitler.

But so what? Any aliens detecting that signal would not have the benefit of history to understand who Hitler was. It would be out of context. To them, it would just be a human ranting, nothing more.

reply to post by DoomsdayRex
Well God help us if they pick up our U.S. MSM. They will see that we have not learned a thing about our childish bickering. Or Jersey Shore.

Originally posted by DocEmrick
If that's the case, won't we reach a point where our signals are invisible, and unreadable (with encryption technology)? And if that's the case, wouldn't aliens have mastered this capability eons ago, assuming they're light-years ahead of us in the technology field anyways? And if all of that is true, why are we funding SETI?

You speak as if every alien race will be eons beyond humans technologically. While there certainly will be more advanced species, there may also be species around the same level technologically as humans. And even if more advanced species have found a way to progress beyond radio-waves, they may still employ them in their search for less advanced species.

Originally posted by timewalker
Well God help us if they pick up our U.S. MSM. They will see that we have not learned a thing about our childish bickering. Or Jersey Shore.

I think it would tell them that even in Earth's most advanced societies, there are still primatives and throwbacks to our more animal-like ways.

Originally posted by DocEmrick
From the article, I find this quote interesting.

"The trouble is that we are making ourselves more and more difficult to be heard," said Dr Drake. "We are broadcasting in much more efficient ways today and are making our signals fainter and fainter."

If that's the case, won't we reach a point where our signals are invisible, and unreadable (with encryption technology)? And if that's the case, wouldn't aliens have mastered this capability eons ago, assuming they're light-years ahead of us in the technology field anyways? And if all of that is true, why are we funding SETI?

that was my immediate reaction as well.

also, regardless of the tech we use in the future, the signals are from satellites to earth, we arent even broadcasting into space. You are right though, it doesnt matter anyways because our nearest star is 4.2 light years away (Proxima Centauri).

My question is do we really want to broadcast into space?

if you are in the jungle, do you want to bring every animal to you? I sure don't. I would want to talk to those that I know are OK.

Then again, would aliens even WANT to contact us knowing how crappy we are to our own?

I always thought SETI was lame, not the concept, the execution of.

If you really want to draw a crowd, then we need a laser light show that could be seen beyond the glow of our sun. Something close to that movie real genius where they create that super (popcorn making) laser.



if we had 2 of those pointing up at from the poles, i bet we would get something to show up.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by DocEmrick
If that's the case, won't we reach a point where our signals are invisible, and unreadable (with encryption technology)? And if that's the case, wouldn't aliens have mastered this capability eons ago, assuming they're light-years ahead of us in the technology field anyways? And if all of that is true, why are we funding SETI?

You speak as if every alien race will be eons beyond humans technologically. While there certainly will be more advanced species, there may also be species around the same level technologically as humans. And even if more advanced species have found a way to progress beyond radio-waves, they may still employ them in their search for less advanced species.

im with you. just because its alien doesnt mean its better than us.

we might be the best thing out there... *shudders* lol

How safe is to send sign blind signals into space like SETI does? Wouldn't it put is in danger of being found by malevolent civilizations along with good ones?

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Even if we found a species, about as technologically advanced as we are or a little more; communication with them would be incredibly difficult. And if they were as advanced as we are, or in the ballpark, they're signals would be getting fainter and fainter as well.

As for less-advanced civilizations, I agree. We could definitely benefit, just by contacting any other species out there. It's more than likely that other species don't even use radio waves, but a telepathy or some other form of communication completely unknown to us.

reply to post by mahtoosacks


This is true. We just blast out our coordinates and every strategic piece of information about our civilization to be obtained by any force in the universe. Evil or hostile. It was pretty stupid, even with our limited understanding of the universe.

As for SETI, I think they're a farce of an organization anyways.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
reply to post by Frogs

 

We were never that easy to hear to begin with. Television signals are omni-directional and become more diffuse the further they travel. I believe at about 2 light-years out they would become impossible to detect. (but please, correct me if I am wrong) That is not even half-way to the nearest star.

I don't know if they are impossible to detect at 2 light years but it has to be at least very difficult.

The old omnidirectional signals were contrasted with lower power satellites pointing back at the Earth, those WOULD be impossible to detect I suspect, at distances closer than 2 light years. What's worse yet is cable TV, where the cable is actually shielded to prevent even small amounts of electrical signals to leak in or out of the cable. I doubt even the most advanced technology could detect what is on the cable even from the Earth's orbit.

Originally posted by mahtoosacks
My question is do we really want to broadcast into space?

if you are in the jungle, do you want to bring every animal to you? I sure don't. I would want to talk to those that I know are OK.

No, I don't think we really want to broadcast to space any more than we already have or are, meaning no separate special projects to intentionally broadcast more detectable signals.

There is a reason that many creatures in the jungle use camouflage, it is to avoid drawing too much attention to themselves so they don't get eaten (or perhaps in the case of predators like tigers and leopards, so they are harder to spot while hunting). We have no idea what other species inhabit the cosmic jungle and until we do, it's probably best if we don't draw too much attention to ourselves. The beings we attract might be benevolent, or they might be worse than the creatures from "Independence Day" in that they have an antivirus program that works!

reply to post by DocEmrick


You know, that's a very good point. Its totally logical and I'm ashamed to admit - I'd never thought of it before.

A continued shout of "Hello!! Is anyone out there?!" is based on the assumption that whoever answers will be friendly at best and neutral at worse. That likely isn't a safe assumption.

You guys.... stop and think about this with a bit of an expanded mind for a moment.

Frank Drake is a clever guy, he made the intelligent life equation on how many civilizations exist in our galaxy alone.... But he is also being a little closed minded with this statement.

Aliens won't be able to hear us now we are switching to digitial? Well what makes Frank Drake or even SETI assume that Extraterrestrials were ever able to hear us at all?

Frank Drake is assuming that any E.T species out there is using the same kind of microwave and radio transmissions as our analogue days to be able to hear it and pick it up. That is very small minded in my opinion.

It would be a given that if there are advanced SPACE FARING civilizations out there they will most definitely be using some OTHER kind of communications technology in the first place, so our extremely primitave "as fast as light" transmissions may have just passed them by anyway.

Think about that. That is why in my opinion SETI is a load of crap. The chances of contacting a civilization that is using primitive radio waves and the like? well, I think you'll have more chance of contacting an alien species by flashing some lasers into the sky. I'm being serious....




They could never hear us in the first place, because chances are they don't operate with the same radio transmission technology as we do!!

[edit on 27-1-2010 by Nomad451]

[edit on 27-1-2010 by Nomad451]

reply to post by DocEmrick

why are we funding SETI?

seti runs on private donations not tax dollars so unless your a donor your not funding jack.

How safe is to send sign blind signals into space like SETI does?

SETI listens and have no ongoing effort to transmit otherwise knows as METI (mesageing Extra terrestrial intelligence). Their official position used to be any transmission would have to be agreed upon by the whole world before transmitting. But they realised that was unrealistic and people will do what they want like beam movies such as "The day the earth stood still" & Doritos ads into space. Alot of them want to do METI.

As for being dangerous. this is commonly known as the darth vader scenario, Vaders out there taking over the galaxy if he picks up our signal he might come and destroy us. But if thats the case Vader will get to us eventually so doing nothing is also a risk. Our signal might be picked up by luke skywalker and he might warn us about vader and even tell us how to defend ourselves. In that case doing METI would save humankind.

Anyway earths been sending a signal for 2.5 billion years. Any ET with a good telescope will be able to analyse the light from earth and see the signature of oxygen and other tell tale signs of complex life. They will know the planet is habitable yet nobody has colonized earth yet. I dont think theres much danger of someone suddenly turning up.


[edit on 27-1-2010 by yeti101]

Originally posted by Cydonia2012
How safe is to send sign blind signals into space like SETI does? Wouldn't it put is in danger of being found by malevolent civilizations along with good ones?

Not to be pedantic, but SETI is the search for signals. You are confusing it with Active SETI/METI. But that I suppose is a semantic argument.

That aside, only a handful of signals have been purposefully sent to the stars. The chances of any civilization, good or bad, is nil.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by Cydonia2012
How safe is to send sign blind signals into space like SETI does? Wouldn't it put is in danger of being found by malevolent civilizations along with good ones?

Not to be pedantic, but SETI is the search for signals. You are confusing it with Active SETI/METI. But that I suppose is a semantic argument.

Exactly. SETI is a waste of time and money because it assumes E.T civilizations are using the same primitive radio transmission technology as we have..... Very closed minded and they will never find anything.

**DOUBLE POST**

[edit on 27-1-2010 by DoomsdayRex]