If you are not a Native American, you're an 'Anchor Baby' (the decendent of an illegal alien)!

reply to post by asd10


a.) Figures that you would just ignore 'The New Colossus'...

b.) Go down to the Bario and say that crap. Good luck getting out, Vato...

reply to post by JaxonRoberts

History is something we can look back on and see how terrible things were then for most indigenous people. But, we must stay clear on the fact that you or I did not do those things to those people. Yes, someone else well before us did so we cannot take any blame for their actions nor be coerced into guilt over it no matter how badly we may feel about those actions.

And strangely enough, if you are born in a country then you are a native of that land now no matter what your ancestral heritage may be.

We need to stop the recriminations and get on with making the best of what is left to us all. So maybe the walls between the cultures need to come down so we can really meld as one and become a race of humanity, not simply small-minded thinkers stuck in the horrific past ?

reply to post by asd10


So how long before you feel the same way about the Constitution??? Just wondering... I mean, eventually it will become 'unrealistic' too, right???

LOGIC FAIL!

reply to post by Tayesin


The point I was trying to make is that it is EXTREMELY ironic that the decendants of immigrants should complain about immigration, both illegal and legal. It has been my experience that those who have a problem with illegal immigration (i.e. most vocal) tend to have a problem with 'foreigners' in general. It makes my mind numb with it's hypocrisy.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


'a.) Figures that you would just ignore 'The New Colossus'...

b.) Go down to the Bario and say that crap. Good luck getting out, Vato...'

a)So you think we should let every poor person in the world into america? What then? where would the 4billion of huddled masses live? Work? Would it be for the overall benefit of the nation and its people?

Or is America better of closing its borders, and working with other nations to make the world a better place for everyone?

b) I dont know what that is.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


'So how long before you feel the same way about the Constitution??? Just wondering... I mean, eventually it will become 'unrealistic' too, right???

LOGIC FAIL! '

the constitution is the set of rules which the nation was founded on, the core ideals. the quote from the statue of liberty is a poem by one person, nothing to doing with the founding of the country, and more of a symbolic statement. It is not a law. Just one persons poem, I dont think immigration policy should be dictated by a poem.

reply to post by JPhish


Empathy is a good thing.

I happen to agree with those who stated that Human is more important than Money.

If you were an illegal immigrant I think you'd take advantage of these loopholes too, or would you pass up on the free education for your children? You'd deny them an education here and send them back to your country of origin to go to school there? Or do you suggest that illegal immigrants can afford to pay property taxes that pay for schools? Again, put yourself in their shoes, if you were an illegal would you see any incentive for getting legal status?

Saying that none of them want to become legal citizens is a bit of a stereotype isn't it? I'm aware that some of them would rather stay illegal but I doubt you've spoken to every single illegal immigrant and asked them all...

Yes it is illegal... and no they shouldn't all be allowed to stick around sapping off the system but we can't go about dealing with them like they are nothing but a financial issue. These are people we're dealing with, and any solution to be found needs to think of both them and us. Just because they aren't citizens here doesn't mean they don't have inalienable human rights or shouldn't be treated fairly. Once again, empathy.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


I am going to have to say Tayesin brought up a very good point.

We conquered the indigenous people and they, after great hardship, have joined together with all different races of the world here, in the US, to become a melting pot.

Now, we the US allow immigration. We the indigenous people here now, should we allow people to emigrate here, with no restrictions whatsoever?

I think not.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


'The point I was trying to make is that it is EXTREMELY ironic that the decendants of immigrants should complain about immigration, both illegal and legal. It has been my experience that those who have a problem with illegal immigration (i.e. most vocal) tend to have a problem with 'foreigners' in general. It makes my mind numb with it's hypocrisy. '

Is different types of immigrants. There are the ones who go to a foreign land, devoid of any major civilisation, and build from the ground up, arguably the most powerful country to have ever existed. then there are the type who enter a county illegaly due to lax immigration laws, enforced by a corrupt government who cares not for its people. Do you see this contrast?

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Exactly Jax, ... conquest is acceptable to them simply because it was them who were the invaders.

Yet when someone encroaches on their land they cry " Hey that's illegal, your taking hot pocket's out of my children's mouths"

and now mexican's are stealing because they send money back home ?? how idiotic, they work their asses off for that money, so they can do whatever they want with it.

It's the employer's who are illegaly paying under the table and profiting from it.

Alot of american's think their entitled by birthright, .... to me their just a bunch of whiner's who haven't done jack to claim their place in society.

Why is america contracting out work to other country's ?? and paying immigrants to do the work were supposed to do ??? Because americans have grown lazy and arrogant.

My last job at a mining company laid off almost every single job there and contracted them out for lesser wages, the union was disbanded as well, .. and I don't blame them, every guy there abused the absence and tardy system, ... they took stress and medical leaves for no reason other than a vacation, they faked injuries, filed greivances if a foreman told them to work harder........... Even when they were at work they wouldnt do a damn thing, ... and then complain all day about this or that, .... and when they did get fired the union would fight and get their jobs back. 80% of the people there were completely worthless, and not just there, ... everywhere, ..... Worthless. The funny thing is they don't see it, they walk around like managers.

So in the end the only cause for immigration is YOU, .. so don't talk unless your willing to get in a field and pick lettuce for 12 hours a day.

You want the country back, Man Up.

As someone who has Native American friends and is part Native American themselves, I don't understand any of this illogical bantering (I would even suggest borderline "racist" bantering to an extent) going on in this topic by certain individuals.

Really though, if some of you people despise illegal immigration so much, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Stop sitting in you chairs and typing on an internet forum, go do something constructive in an attempt to remedy to this huge problem you are oh so passionate about. Doesn't sound like a good idea? It beats blaming the Government for not taking action all the time, in effect allowing you to not have to do anything.



[edit on 27-1-2010 by douglas2k4]

reply to post by IntastellaBurst


'Exactly Jax, ... conquest is acceptable to them simply because it was them who were the invaders. '

Conquest is only unnaceptable to them because they were the invaded.

reply to post by douglas2k4




'Really though, if some of you people despise illegal immigration so much, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Stop sitting in you chairs and typing on an internet forum, go do something constructive in an attempt to remedy to this huge problem you are oh so passionate about. Doesn't sound like a good idea? It beats blaming the Government for not taking action all the time, in effect allowing you to not have to do anything. '

Could that not apply to everyone who has ever talked or complain about any issue in the world?

There are people dying in haiti.... go do something dont talk about it!
or
There are government people trying to push a harmmful vaccine... go do something about it!

I agree more action less talk is a good strategy, but you can apply to anything.

@asd10: In your specific case that you seem to be passionate about, then yes, YOU GO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. You're the one that that seems to be passionate about illegal immigration more so than most people on this topic, but I will assume you will do nothing to remedy it besides post more about "conquest" and "blood, sweats and tears'...



[edit on 27-1-2010 by douglas2k4]

'@asd10: In your specific case that you seem to be passionate about, then yes, YOU GO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. You're the one that that seems to be passionate about illegal immigration more so than most people on this topic, but I will assume you will do nothing to remedy it besides post more about "conquest" and "blood, sweats and tears'... '

I am more concerned with the opinions the OP has. That general attitude that whites are evil conquerors who have killed and 'raped' the land and everyone else is happy and peacefull all the time.

Assume what you want.

Alright then, I will assume you will do nothing but complain on an internet forum (which is more truthful then not).

IntastellaBurst brings up a good point regarding corporations outsourcing to other countries. This is a fact that is sorely missed when illegal immigration is brought up, and whether intentionally or not, the evidence is staggering.

[edit on 27-1-2010 by douglas2k4]

[edit on 27-1-2010 by douglas2k4]

'IntastellaBurst brings up a good point regarding corporations outsourcing to other countries. This is a fact that is sorely missed when illegal immigration is brought up, and whether intentionally or not, the evidence is staggering. '

It is not accurate to compare what a third world immigrant and a first world resident will work for.

The hypothetical immigrant may work long hours for low pay, that an american would never do, but its because the money is worth much more to them.

They may work in a gas station for ten hours a day getting a low wage, but compared to what they could earn at home thats great money. This is compunded if they send the money home. Which is also taking money out of the US economy.

An american can't and shouldn't have to compete with that. Some may call that being 'lazy and arrogant'.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by JPhish

 

Empathy is a good thing.

You’re insinuating that I am not an empathic person. Your assumption is incorrect.

I happen to agree with those who stated that Human is more important than Money.

straw man. Stealing is stealing, these people are stealing.

If you were an illegal immigrant I think you'd take advantage of these loopholes too,

Um, I would never be dumb enough to immigrate to this country for starters. But if I did illegally come here, yes I’d take advantage of the loopholes.

or would you pass up on the free education for your children?

I’d educate my children myself. I would never send them to a school.

You'd deny them an education here and send them back to your country of origin to go to school there?

nope, I’d teach them myself.

Or do you suggest that illegal immigrants can afford to pay property taxes that pay for schools?

I’m suggesting that most are not interested in paying property taxes ever, regardless as to whether or not they could afford them.

Again, put yourself in their shoes, if you were an illegal would you see any incentive for getting legal status?

I would never go to the United States in the first place.

Saying that none of them want to become legal citizens is a bit of a stereotype isn't it?

I never said that none of them want to be citizens. I said most of them.

I'm aware that some of them would rather stay illegal but I doubt you've spoken to every single illegal immigrant and asked them all...

I just told you that my family offered to sponsor illegal immigrants and they all denied our sponsorship because they wanted to remain illegal. That is not the extent of my experience with these illegal immigrants. Don’t get me started.

Yes it is illegal... and no they shouldn't all be allowed to stick around sapping off the system but we can't go about dealing with them like they are nothing but a financial issue.

That’s right.

These are people we're dealing with, and any solution to be found needs to think of both them and us. Just because they aren't citizens here doesn't mean they don't have inalienable human rights or shouldn't be treated fairly. Once again, empathy

A solution to someone stealing from you?

Lots of things come to mind.

Sorry, but no one has the right to steal.

Your logic is flawed.

If they were being treated fairly they’d all be in prison, like I would be if I didn’t pay my taxes.

Being able to relate with someone, feel sympathy and understand them doesn’t mean you excuse them of wrong doing. Accusing me of not being empathic for telling you how it is, is laughable.

[edit on 1/27/2010 by JPhish]

Originally posted by Wormwood Squirm
Oh and an illegal alien is not just some race other than white or native American, that term means an illegal entry into the US without following the rules and it doesnt matter where in the hell you were born. Follow the rules and you are welcome to come to America.

So if the native Americans had some rules back then, you (if you had been alive then) would have respected them and left them alone? Oh yeah, but it was different because you invaded. So it's OK for people to come to your land if they invade you, you respect that? They come and they say, 'you have rules? well we don't care, because we're taking over!' But it's ok, because they won't be illegal aliens, they will just be invaders. Phew, what a relief!

According to USCIS.GOV it looks rather expensive just to apply for citizenship.

From my extremely limited experience with it, the process is supposedly very expensive and takes an absurdly long time.

I don't think some of the questions on the civics test are that hard, of course, I passed high school civics, some that a lot might not know:

How many amendments does the Constitution have?

What are two rights in the Declaration of Independence?

What is the “rule of law”?

The House of Representatives has how many voting members?

What does the President’s Cabinet do?

What are two Cabinet-level positions?

Under our Constitution, some powers belong to the states. What is one power of the states?

Name one right only for United States citizens.(The follow-up may confuse you)

What are two rights of everyone living in the United States?

What are two ways that Americans can participate in their democracy?

When was the Constitution written?

The Federalist Papers supported the passage of the U.S. Constitution. Name one of the writers.

What did Susan B. Anthony do?

Who was President during World War I?

Name one of the two longest rivers in the United States.

Name one U.S. territory.

Of course, those are what I thought would be the hardest of the 100 sample questions from the website. More politically active individuals (those of us on ATS) will likely know most of the 100 questions.

I do agree with the OP somewhat, Germans are taught the horrible things that the Nazi's did. American's, I feel, don't get the sense of atrocities we committed AFTER we became a nation, slavery, trail of tears, Japanese internment, etc.