Is this stigmata?

Hello,

I watched a programe a few weeks ago now called "The girl who cries blood". Ive done a quick search but could find no threads relating to this. If there is then im sorry.

Twinkle Dwvedi began to bleed randomly out of her head, hands, feet, neck and variouse other parts of her body when she was thirteen. She's consulted everything from religious figures to Doctors. No one can seem to find out what the problem is. Medicaly she should'nt be able to bleed out of her skin in that way. The American and British Doctors that examined her say it might be a rare blood disorder called Von Willerbrand disease, but her blood tests show no abnormality of the protiens that help the blood clot.

Being a hindu she first approached a leader in that religion, cant remember what you call them sorry. They say she's possesed by some evil spirit. She approached the church in India who, even when she began to bleed right in front of them. Said it could'nt be stigmata because she was a hindu.

So this condition which looks exactly like stigmata to me. Cant be classified as stigmata because she's practices the wrong religion. So whats to say that people who claim to have stigmata who are recognized by the church, are'nt just afflicted with this same condition. Let me know your thoughts please.


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edit to correct mistakes

[edit on 25-1-2010 by Algebra]

Stigmata (from 'stigmon' = branding mark of an animal or a slave &tc.) are generally regarded as the (5) physical marks found among hysterics (esp religious hysterics, e.g. ascetics) and generally 'ultra-religious' persons who focus upon the socalled 5-holy-wounds of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (Gk. 'Iesous'), who led a rebelliion against Rome and was caught/summarily-tried/sentenced/ executed by Roman Crucifixion during the reign of the 'divine' Emperor Tiberius at Pesach (Passover) in 36CE in Jerusalem -- ostensibly for breach of Lex Maiestatis (the so-called 'No King but Caesar' Law) and for armed Sedition against Rome (see Luke 22:35-45) where the slave of the high priest's ear seems to have gone missing.

Typically the iconography portrays this man (Gk. 'Iesous') as being nailed to a T or a Cross beam through the feet and the palms, and covered neatly with a loincloth &tc. but of course, executed criminals in Roman occupied Palestine in the years leading up to the 1st Failed Jewish War against Rome (66CE to 72CE, where 900,000 Judaeans were wiped out) were nailed to posts or T's or X's in a wide variety of shapes THROUGH THE WRISTS and ANKLES in order to support the weight of the body which was further alleviated by a 'SEDILLA' (i.e. an anal plug/large pike) placed into the anus as an 'additional insult'. The victim was also generally scourged first (with various types of flagella, or whips with small bones or metal teeth at the ends) and stripped NAKED.

One of the WORST insults in Roman times you could say to someone was:

WHY DON'T YOU TAKE YOUR SEAT (SEDILLA) UPON THE CROSS (CRUX) ? referring to this very degrading form of humiliation and slow death.

Victims of Crucifixion were often plagued by audiences throwing food and other objects (e.g. excrement) as well as being openly de-bowelled and even were slowly castrated as well in front of the jeering crowds with a sign of his/her offence placed above the head (TITULUS) . Sometiems, their children (especially babies) were generally choked to death and Slung with ropes over the neck of the crucified criminal as well, adding insult to injury. The victims of this cruel torture (average length of time to die is 90 hours) generally died of asphyxiation since the lungs generally collapse or fill with liquid over time.

Modern 'religious' persons who 'meditate' upon a statue or model of a 'Roman Catholic Crucifix' i.e. showing the failed insurrectionist (Iesous)with the nails through palms (which would tear loose) and the feet (ditto) (with or without a wound to the side) would often start to get dark spots on the same places in their own bodies resembling a 'Bruise' which would then sometimes appear to bleed, or the skin would be completely broken through as they went further and further into trance states of delusional 'hysteria'---the majority of cases seem to be females but there are a number of famous male cases (e.g. Padre Pio of Rome, or St Francis of Assisi, St Catherine of Siena, &tc. and also (possibly ?) Saul of Tarsus 'I bear on my body the wounds of Iesous' who never met 'Iesous' in the flesh, only in dreams and visions...)

en.wikipedia.org...

Because the religious-hysteric generally has NO knowledge of the actual physical workings / anatomical details of a 'real' 1st century Roman Crucifixion (there are some bones still extant in tombs with nails still attached, so we know how they were placed through the bones), he/she merely develops 'wounds' where he THINKS they should be..i.e. following the 'recipe' of the statue they are staring at (or by gazing or meditating upon an image in their minds that they are thinking about based on such iconography e.g. a statue or a painting or even an oral description).

The iconography is generally based upon mis-informed (or Midrashically guided by various and sundry Hebrew scriptures from the OT, e.g. 'Princes in that Day shall be suspeded by their hands') Gospel depictions of the wounds of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef (see Luke 24: 36-40 and John 20: 19-29 &tc.)

If the 'hysteric' for example was shown a depiction of 'iesous' with the nail going through the center of the forehead of this man instead of his hands/feet, he/she would develop a bleeding wound above the eyes below the hairline, because it is his/her mind which is 'internally' causing the 'stigmata' and not any external force or mind being imposed upon the body.






[edit on 25-1-2010 by Sigismundus]

Yeah, being non Religious myself. Im inclined to believe that she's bringing this on her self. Although how you can bring yourself to bleed in such a way is mind boggling.

I can see what you mean by people empatheticaly displaying those wounds that they see on statues or books or even descriptions. Given that she's a Hindu however, Who's wounds can she be emulating. As far as im aware she's never been influenced in that way. Unless theres figures within the Hindu religion that have been subjected to similar things.

Thanks for your reply.

[edit on 26-1-2010 by Algebra]

Originally posted by Algebra
Hello,

I watched a programe a few weeks ago now called "The girl who cries blood". Ive done a quick search but could find no threads relating to this. If there is then im sorry.

Twinkle Dwvedi began to bleed randomly out of her head, hands, feet, neck and variouse other parts of her body when she was thirteen. She's consulted everything from religious figures to Doctors. No one can seem to find out what the problem is. Medicaly she should'nt be able to bleed out of her skin in that way. The American and British Doctors that examined her say it might be a rare blood disorder called Von Willerbrand disease, but her blood tests show no abnormality of the protiens that help the blood clot.

Being a hindu she first approached a leader in that religion, cant remember what you call them sorry. They say she's possesed by some evil spirit. She approached the church in India who, even when she began to bleed right in front of them. Said it could'nt be stigmata because she was a hindu.

So this condition which looks exactly like stigmata to me. Cant be classified as stigmata because she's practices the wrong religion. So whats to say that people who claim to have stigmata who are recognized by the church, are'nt just afflicted with this same condition. Let me know your thoughts please.


www.mahalo.com...

www.myinterestingfiles.com...



edit to correct mistakes

[edit on 25-1-2010 by Algebra]

It is extremely rare that the Church accepts an occurrence
of the stigmata as authentic. and even makes no attempt to
define the orgin or nature. An explaination from physical,
psychological and even preternatural is allowed.

here's the difference and btw that might be a real disease, but stigmatas, real ones, are in the hand only and are from God as a sign.

All stigmatist had giant circular wound in their hands. It wasn't on their forheads or in other areas, specific to the hands and accompanied by pain in only the hands.

and see Satan will try and make stories like this to disprove the stigmata, even though it might be a real disease, it's not a stigmata.


Padre Pio had the stigmata for 50 strait years. He was tested by doctors and they said his amount of blood loss should of caused him to die within weeks.

He lived 81. He had it for 50 years strait. it's impossible.


St gemma had the stigmata that saturated her sheets. infact she didn't even ask for the stigmata, it was a gift from God. She had it for years.

She used it to offer it up for souls. The story how she recieved the stigmata was no delusion because Iv'e read her book. She was an angel, and infact the priest who asked God for a sign if she was an angel seen wings attacked to her back while praying in church one night.


I'll have to do some research on that disease, but's it's not the same at all.


peace.

[edit on 27-1-2010 by JesusisTruth]