ABOUT $2 MILLION A MONTH: More illegal immigrants getting emergency treatment at UMC , page 2
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 7 times


reply posted on 25-1-2010 @ 06:05 PM by brainwrek
reply to post by Polynomial C


Then why not move to Norway?

Norway has a personal tax rate close to 40% along with a VAT.

It is a redistributive economy.

Fortunately for everyone but the bottom of the barrel, we do not have that here.


reply posted on 25-1-2010 @ 06:08 PM by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by brainwrek


Well Norwegian parents also get 12 months paid paternal leave. It's a pretty awesome country. But it's a SMALL tiny population filled with natural resources. So running a country like Norway would never fly for the US. And if you ask most Norwegians as heavily taxed as they are they enjoy some of the best standards of living in the world.........I'm sure they are quite happy. America used to be like that. But not anymore because our politicians, government and corporations have sold us out.


reply posted on 25-1-2010 @ 06:11 PM by brainwrek
reply to post by Zosynspiracy


I agree, they enjoy a pretty high standard of living, and I have no doubt they are pretty happy in general.

That being said, how many would still feel that way if they had to make their own way in life, instead of relying on subsidies funded by high income earners?

Personally, I'd take freedom and low taxes over government taking more of my money to fund the lifestyles of others.



reply posted on 25-1-2010 @ 06:14 PM by Sean48
reply to post by brainwrek


I suppose your a real fan of the NAU , you will have Illegals everywhere then my friend.

You really should learn Spanish .


reply posted on 25-1-2010 @ 06:36 PM by sdcigarpig
After reading this I am reminded of something I have heard every year:
"Are there no prisons?" "Plenty of prisons," And the Union workhouses?" "Are they still in operation?" "They are. Still," "The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" "Both very busy, sir."
"Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,"
"If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."
Sound familiar? It is a Christmas classic, called a Christmas Carol.
As much as I do not agree with illegale immigration, I do not believe in being so heartless as to prevent health care for a person who is in need. This is not an issues of health care, but a broader issue that the Federal Government has chosen to ignore, instead of doing the right thing.
Now I do not agree with illegale immigration, nor do I agree with giving a general amnesty to those who have broken those laws, however, I do not believe in letting someone suffer. There has to be a better way, that allowes for those who wish to immigrate here to do such, without breaking the laws. As I stated the problem is the federal government, and the rules for such. Of all of the departments in the Federal Government, those that deal with immigration are not funded, or recieve the support, hence all of the fees for those trying to become citizens of this country. And those wanting to come here are doing such under the belief it will give them a better life, or seeking something they can not get, care and aid that their own country can not or will not provide them. Limits are set based on where they come from, and then those who are sick, are often denied entry, so they resort to the only thing that they know, sneaking across the boarder, even at the risk of their own life.


reply posted on 25-1-2010 @ 06:44 PM by amatrine
It happens, they do get closed down. There are very few specialist in my town anymore . They had to close shop. This area has a high illegal population and low income. Most of the specialist offices have shut down, because they could not afford the cost. Even regular doctors offices have shut down. There is now only one county run regular doctors office. The hospital has cut its staff in half and closed down part of the hospital because too many people come there and use it as doctors office and never pay.

I have to drive into Phoenix for quality health care.

There are no easy answers, but the truth is, they are here illegal. They can get health care in Mexico. I am tired of seeing offices close shop because of this problem. We can not afford to treat our own , and half of Mexico. It will collapse. It is happening out here in the West. I guess when there is no more medical care in the West they will move East, until it is all gone.

That is what will happen.

NO we should not let people die, but those that are terminal , maybe they should be sent back to where they can get the health care they need from the Country they come from. My health care cost are already so high.
We pay a LOT of money every month PLUS a 20k deductible . When you get that $20 dollar asprin in the hospital ( actual price for the pill while admitted)
, I am paying for mine and 30 other people that can not pay for it because they feel they are entitled to it for free. This is called socialism.

I am medical debt to my eyeballs because I am sick, and the inflated prices
I have to pay because of all those that do not. I could loose my house because of this. This does affect me and a lot of other people.

Add to that the amount of travel I have to do for all my appointments because of all the doctors that had to close shop here. It comes down to an added tax because we are unfortunate enough to be sick, and have jobs.

[edit on 25-1-2010 by amatrine]

[edit on 25-1-2010 by amatrine]


reply posted on 25-1-2010 @ 06:46 PM by ohioriver
I feel it is acceptable to deny care to illegal alien lawbreakers. The following is how Mexico treats non citizens:

www.alipac.us...

Help support ALIPAC - Donate Today!

Mexico demands cash up front for emergency medical treatment of American!
Posted on Wednesday, March 23 @ 08:34:51 EST
Topic: money campaigns cost illegal immigration
money campaigns cost illegal immigration3/216/2005
The Penn Online
Topics: Mexico, Health Care, Laws, Americans, Security, Border

Paul Guzan (junior, criminology) waded in the clear, shallow water near the shores of Cancun, Mexico, one day during last week's spring break. Friends, drinks and sun ruled the afternoon -- until he felt a sharp clamp on his foot.



"The water was about up to my knees," he said Monday. "I was swimming, just fooling around, and I felt something pull my foot away. It felt like a steel trap.

"It was pretty shocking," he said. "As soon as it grabbed me, I started walking. When I got out of the water, I noticed that my tendons and toes were kind of hanging. And blood was squirting everywhere."

Guzan had been attacked by a barracuda, the torpedo-like tropical fish nicknamed "the tiger of the sea" for its predatory prowess. His foot was shredded, as the fish had ripped the skin away and torn through tendons, nerves and ligaments.

And his problems didn't end there.

Guzan said he was taken to a local Mexican hospital, where he was forced to wait hours for care: "They told me my insurance company was 'red-flagged' ... that I would have to pay between $10,000 and $20,000 cash before they would even treat me."

The hospital claimed that HealthAmerica, Guzan's provider, was blacklisted for not paying on an unrelated case, though HealthAmerica later told Pittsburgh's Channel 4 that the hospital was confusing it with another carrier.

"Luckily," Guzan said, "I had my parents' platinum credit card with a high limit. The owner of the hospital came down and told me my surgery would be expensive. He said, 'It will be at least $10,000 to start. If you can't do that, if you don't have that, feel free to leave and find another hospital.'"


We should treat them with the same policies that Mexico applies to foreigners.


reply posted on 25-1-2010 @ 06:56 PM by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by ohioriver


Yep. Mexicans treat Americans worse than we treat illegals. And I've been to Mexico many many times. The only reason they are "nice" to us is because we prop up their tourism industry.

Here's a question for all the people in this thread......let's say you had a family member or a child.............that needed life saving care............how much is your family member or child worth? Do you expect the country to bend over backwards to save your family member or child? Should Bill Gate's or the US government pay whatever it takes to save your child? Whether it's $1 million or $100 million? Should a hospital go bankrupt trying to save them? Because that is in essence what illegal healthcare comes down to.



reply posted on 25-1-2010 @ 07:44 PM by 3vilscript
Originally posted by brainwrek
reply to post by AztecSpiritual


Please tell me where one can receive "free" healthcare.

Hint: it isnt free if others are forced to pay for it.

Do the doctors work for free? Was the hospital built for free? How about the nurses? They show up for work every day not expecting a paycheck right?


So your problem then isn't so much that the illegals get health care but that you're 'forced' to pay for it? That sounds like a tax debate.

This forum looks more and more like the New Nation News forums everyday.


reply posted on 25-1-2010 @ 08:35 PM by rebeldog
reply to post by AztecSpiritual


then you pay for their health care then.. you and no one else should make me....why don't you live on a bowl of rice a day and send all your money to some starving loser somewhere...


reply posted on 25-1-2010 @ 09:00 PM by brainwrek
reply to post by uglybattle


I'll ask you the same question I have asked others, but they have neglected to answer.

How much are you personally going to send UMC?

When should we expect proof?

I'd say $500 is a fair amount to get ya started. When will you be mailing the check?


reply posted on 26-1-2010 @ 04:59 AM by svpwizard
reply to post by brainwrek


I was going to try and explain the flaw in your logic as with the other people all jumping on the hate wagon here but I think aside from continuing this pointless and UNINTELLIGENT totally argumentative discussion.

I pray you don't find yourself in need. Illegal or not.


reply posted on 26-1-2010 @ 07:25 AM by JPhish
reply to post by Koolcdj69


you do realize that illegal aliens are CRIMINALS right?

it's not hard to apply for citizenship.

these people are knowingly stealing from this country.

they shouldn't be given medical assistance ever unless their native country is willing to pick up the tab.

If they want to become citizens, pay taxes, raise their families here, and learn English.

I WELCOME THEM TO AMERICA

If not.

GET THE !@#$ OUT.

[edit on 1/26/2010 by JPhish]


reply posted on 26-1-2010 @ 07:45 AM by jtma508
Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
Liberals have no idea how to run a business and it's obvious from some of the posters in this thread.


Seriously? What a tool! Bill Gates is a 'liberal'. He seems to do OK. Richard Branson is a 'liberal'. Again, doing OK. There are plenty more. The vast amount of 'labelling' BS that goes on here at ATS is embarassing. This community prides itself on a higher standard yet it is pervasive. Disgusting.

Most hospitals are not-for-profit organizations. Part of the criteria for getting that tax-free status is the requirement that they provide subsidized and no-cost services for those without the ability to pay. Illegals or not. If your child was deathly ill what would you do? Let them die? Or get help any way you can?

There are alot of problems within the hospital system in this country that go back decades and have nothing to do with giving away free care. HHS has worked, for example, to get regional hospitals to cooperate with one another in order to avoid unnecessary duplication of services and expensive equipment. For the most part they have refused.

If you want a far more telling statistic, why not research the current trends in non-compensated treatment and billing losses coming from non-illegal patients. The steadily increasing unemployment from 2007 and loss/retraction of health insurance benefits in the country has created a massive surge of non-compensated treatment and delayed treatment resulting in more serious and consequently more expensive treatment.

You can't blame THAT problem on the illegals. We created that one entirely on our own.


reply posted on 26-1-2010 @ 07:46 AM by Merigold
reply to post by JPhish


it's not hard to apply for citizenship.


Wrong.

It's not hard if you have funds however, I speak from experience.

The bottom line is if you are a poor person then becoming an US citizen is VERY difficult. If you're rich, and can throw a ball you're in no problem!

I lived in the United States for 25 years. Was raised there from a toddler, knew no other life, no other language then English, went to school, college, worked...all illegally. Never a problem untill 9/11. So I thought I did the right thing my starting the process to get legal, afterall as far as I was concered I was an American in everyway except a piece of paper.

I was lucky, I could afford to hire an immigration lawyer, spent several thousand to start the process and then I got busted, lost my job ( fired, company I'd worked for 8 years fined a huge amount), my lawyer says it would cost me about 25K more to get a green card, and now, that my illegal status was known, I couldn't work anymore of course so my savings were getting rapidly depleted. And, I wasn't guaranteed the green card either, seems the fact that I paid for college largley through government grants, and the fact that I worked whilst knowing my illegal status reflected badly on me!

In the end, I said to hell with it and took voluntary deportation. Hardest thing I have ever done.

What chance do you think Pedro and his family have when it comes to doing it legally?

A snowballs chance in hell, but I suspect you don't care as "legal immigration" is the right's favorite euphemism for white folks with money to spend on high priced attornies.

Today I live in the UK, they happily take my tax dollars and appreciate my community spirit and luckily they speak English Even if it is with a weird accent.
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