Originally posted by ldyserenity

Great, that didn't occur to me, you may be on to something, but now who would fund the war? Do you think we should bring everybody home? Personally I do, but we also have to protect our land, so I can't say if this would be harmful or helpful? See everyone fails to see the point that there is no simple solution. At least I would like to think if there were, it'd already have happened, but maybe I see the glass as half empty?

Rats, the thing didn't save my edit. Basically, I'm a Libertarian, and I believe the War On (Iraq, Afghanistan, Drugs, Vietnam, Korea, etc.) are/were all unconstitutional, unjust, a waste of tax payers money, and a way for the super elite to line their pockets with our suffering by owning businesses that profited from the wars.

There was some economists (I forgot who, I'll try to find if you're really interested) who said that in 2008, if all income tax was completely stopped...the US would still bring in as much money as it did in 1995 (in which I believe we were 'at war' with Kosovo, and paid for that just fine). There are still plenty of taxes the Government reams us with. They don't need income tax. It's only used to feed the greedy at the top and for the Military Industrial Complex.

Remember, the super wealthy are not always evil (Bill Gates for example. He gives money away all the time, even though he gets taxed on everything from his stocks (50%), his business (50%+), and all the employees he has employed, and his home, jets etc.)

Also, congressman and senators and the like make I think well over 200k a year (not including insider trading and passing laws to help the companies they own stock in). I don't believe they're taxed on it either (though I could be mistaken). Your enemy is government, not joe blow who is getting reamed.

Originally posted by habfan1968

Change the govt. run school system to what exactly? all private schools, who is gonna educate the too many kids of the poor then? themselves?

Providing an education is not easy but it is being provided, how one chooses to utilize the opportunity is the real issue.

Is that why MacDonalds cheeseburgers are so expensive, since the Government doesn't run fast food? Oh wait! They have double cheeseburgers for under a BUCK! (Though I wouldn't eat it, :lol

It's called competition. Competition will let the market lower prices just above profit if need be. The more private schools there are, the lower the prices will go. And since this is education we're talking about, chances are the quality will go up, since parents want their children to be successful, and will choose schools based on that cross section (price v quality). Sure less expensive schools will have less quality, but I'm sure they'll be better than schools that are currently in the backwoods or in the hoods.

Originally posted by Arcane Demesne

Originally posted by ldyserenity

Great, that didn't occur to me, you may be on to something, but now who would fund the war? Do you think we should bring everybody home? Personally I do, but we also have to protect our land, so I can't say if this would be harmful or helpful? See everyone fails to see the point that there is no simple solution. At least I would like to think if there were, it'd already have happened, but maybe I see the glass as half empty?

Rats, the thing didn't save my edit. Basically, I'm a Libertarian, and I believe the War On (Iraq, Afghanistan, Drugs, Vietnam, Korea, etc.) are/were all unconstitutional, unjust, a waste of tax payers money, and a way for the super elite to line their pockets with our suffering by owning businesses that profited from the wars.

There was some economists (I forgot who, I'll try to find if you're really interested) who said that in 2008, if all income tax was completely stopped...the US would still bring in as much money as it did in 1995 (in which I believe we were 'at war' with Kosovo, and paid for that just fine). There are still plenty of taxes the Government reams us with. They don't need income tax. It's only used to feed the greedy at the top and for the Military Industrial Complex.

Remember, the super wealthy are not always evil (Bill Gates for example. He gives money away all the time, even though he gets taxed on everything from his stocks (50%), his business (50%+), and all the employees he has employed, and his home, jets etc.)

Also, congressman and senators and the like make I think well over 200k a year (not including insider trading and passing laws to help the companies they own stock in). I don't believe they're taxed on it either (though I could be mistaken). Your enemy is government, not joe blow who is getting reamed.

Oh I agree with you there on that last statement...But, being the government ain't going nowhere soon, How do the American people get the taxation to stop? Or maybe more people like you should run for office, unfortunately they'd (the other government runners) wouldn't let anybody like that get through the starting gate. This is the major problem so how do we Americans fix it when the government won't? I am very interested in that article, and I do agree with the war as being useless, in part, I still am not sold on the idea that there was a true threat to America, but then again, if there was, then we must take action. I tend to lean that it was an inside job. But, yet I have not seen proof for either side, so I am keeping my mind open to the possibility of both sides. It's hard to have any concrete proof we needed to be in Iraq or against it. I wish I was all knowing, then I'd be able to make an educated decision on this. I do beleive that if that article you quoted is right, then why aren't more people knocking at the whitehouse, screaming "STOP TAKING MY INCOME!!!!"???

If we got rid of the minum wage and welfare you wouldn't have to worry about bying Chinese junk because everything would be made in the USA!

Originally posted by Arcane Demesne

Originally posted by habfan1968

Change the govt. run school system to what exactly? all private schools, who is gonna educate the too many kids of the poor then? themselves?

Providing an education is not easy but it is being provided, how one chooses to utilize the opportunity is the real issue.

Is that why MacDonalds cheeseburgers are so expensive, since the Government doesn't run fast food? Oh wait! They have double cheeseburgers for under a BUCK! (Though I wouldn't eat it, :lol

It's called competition. Competition will let the market lower prices just above profit if need be. The more private schools there are, the lower the prices will go. And since this is education we're talking about, chances are the quality will go up, since parents want their children to be successful, and will choose schools based on that cross section (price v quality). Sure less expensive schools will have less quality, but I'm sure they'll be better than schools that are currently in the backwoods or in the hoods.

I disagree, the poor will have to choose between paying for school or let's say some necessity and of course choose necessity, by passing the kids education. Private education costs about $10,000 a year here in Ontario for kids from kindergarten to grade 8 then increases from grades 9 - 12, competition would surely bring the price down, but to a level where it's affordable for the masses of poverty line families is not realistic. Say it was $3000 a year per child how many could afford it then?

Originally posted by brainwrek


You just made an argument as for why poor families shouldnt reproduce. If they cant afford to properly house, feed, clothe, and educate their children, they shouldnt have them.

Good job.

Isn't that the American Dream ?

Anyone , from any walk of life , can achieve their goals for a better life?

I believe American's cling to this , like baseball and apple pie.

Originally posted by habfan1968

I disagree, the poor will have to choose between paying for school or let's say some necessity and of course choose necessity, by passing the kids education. Private education costs about $10,000 a year here in Ontario for kids from kindergarten to grade 8 then increases from grades 9 - 12, competition would surely bring the price down, but to a level where it's affordable for the masses of poverty line families is not realistic. Say it was $3000 a year per child how many could afford it then?

If the avg American makes 30k/yr (that's 15% income tax versus 25% if they made over 32k/yr), and income tax was abolished (which is what we need in order for the libertarian market to commence), that would free up roughly 4k, which is more than the 3k you propose. But also bear in mind, his employer would have more money to free up (since his business would not need to pay taxes), and maybe give him 40k/yr.

Also remember, that in a private school situation, if a kid is in a poorer school, but advancing very fast, there would be people who would see his potential and 'grant' him access to a better school (maybe run by Bill Gates or some such person) if he agrees to finish his schooling, and work for say, maybe 5 years. Then the rich are basically investing in poor children's education in a way the govt. never could.

Originally posted by ldyserenity
[snip]...to keep America from dying.

America died in 1913. And Woodrow Wilson is the man who allowed the murder.

I think that we are reaching some tough decisions here in the US.

I don' t think that we as a nation can afford people that view welfare as a lifestyle.

So, I think that the structure of public assistance is going to change over the next decade. I like the idea of a safety net for people that suddenly find themselves down and out. However, you should only get about 6 months of assistance and then there need to be some changes to your circumstances.

If you haven't got a job after 6 months, you should be forced to enroll in job skills classes that train you for jobs that are available in your area. You should have to be on birth control if you can become pregnant. (When the scientist perfect birth control for men, this should apply to men as well).

When your job training is complete you will be compelled to take a job if one is available. If you get fired, you're not going to get more assistance.

If no jobs are available, the government should be the employer of last resort. You would have to report 5 days a week 8-5 and be available labor for government projects.

Drug testing for someone receiving public assistance should be mandatory. If you fail a drug test, you should immediately be place din drug rehab.


In California, we had welfare reform some time ago. So, a 15 year old girl could no longer get pregnant and receive an apartment, welfare and food stamps. The teen pregnancy rate dropped immediately. So before reform, many teens were making a lifestyle choice of government assistance. That choice has been eliminated. I think that we need to eliminate government assistance as a lifestyle choice. If you choose to be supported by the state, you should be compelled to work very hard for the state, while at the same time be encourage to find work in the private sector that would pay better.