In July of 1947 there was an incident in Roswell NM. First the story said it was a UFO crash, then, suddenly it was a weather balloon, then they changed it to a Project Mogul balloon. So what exactly did crash at Roswell? We know something did, but what was it?

your forgetting they changed to story again to included crash test dummies dropped from ballons

The alleged ufo crash in Roswell, New Mexico which took place in June 1947 (the exact date is still being hassled over) is very frustrating for me. While I am convinced of the existence of ufos, the more I read on the Roswell crash, the more of a can of worms it turns out to be. The episode was mostly forgotten until 1970's when Jesse Marcel, the major involved with the recovery of the crash, announced that the military's claim that the object was a weather balloon was a lie and the ufologist Stanton began to investigate. Suddenly lots of witnesses show up, some with faulty memories, some with deliberate lies, some changing stories, etc. Many are descredited: Jim Ragsdale, Dubose, Kaufman, etc.
First it was only one crash site, then two crash sites (the second with alien bodies). All the heavyweight ufologist have written books on it: Stanton Friedman, Moore, Kevin Randle and Don Schmitt, Charles Berlitz, Philip Corso, etc. Among the debunkers: Philip Klass and Kal Korff. To complicate matters, there are endless squabbles: Randle drops Schmitt as his partner (Schmitt apparently gave misleading information about his background, etc.) , Stanton and Randle squabble over the alleged Majestic 12 documents. Randle drops Frank Kaufman as a credible witness after having defended him for years. The town of Roswell cashes in on the tourist industry aspect. After 57 years practically none of the original alleged witnesses are still living. Then Santilli's alien autopsy film shows up. Research David Rudiak says a photo of General Ramey and the Roswell debris (which has been allegedly switched with ballon debris) shows him holding a communique to Washington on an ufo crash. Lots of conspiracy theories mushroom. IMHO, nothing really convincing shows up. FOIA documents have not revealed much either (though if documents do exist I doubt they would be released anyway). Muddy waters indeed! This is a Pandora's box. Once you start looking, one thing leads to another.

Originally posted by gzhpcu
The episode was mostly forgotten until 1970's when Jesse Marcel, the major involved with the recovery of the crash, announced that the military's claim that the object was a weather balloon was a lie and the ufologist Stanton began to investigate. Suddenly lots of witnesses show up, some with faulty memories, some with deliberate lies, some changing stories, etc. Many are descredited: Jim Ragsdale, Dubose, Kaufman, etc.

Marcel never "anounced" his involvement. Friedman, while investigating UFO sightings/or giving a lecture(not sure there) meets a man who is a ham radio buddy of Marcel. He tells Friedman to look up Marcel, who has mentioned "handling" some flying saucer wreckage. Friedman meets with Marcel and the Roswell story is brought back to life. (I read that info in one of Friedman's books)

[Edited on 27-5-2004 by Facefirst]

How many times do we have to tell you...

NOTHING HAPPENED IN ROSWELL - IT WAS A DREAM


You may now return to your regularly scheduled conspiracy theories.


elevated - out

I know a gentleman who lives in California. He flew B-24's during WW2 and was stationed at Roswell in July of 47. I asked him: "Ted...was it really a weather balloon?" His answer: "Not on your life!" So...coming from one who was there when it happened...it happened!
A good book to read on this is "The Day After Roswell" by Colonel (retired) Phillip J. Corso.

Elevatedome,
Maybe... but
However do a search on astronaut Edgar Mitchell and Roswell with google.

What I saw is essentially this:

Astronaut Edgar Mitchell says his research - including conversations with people who have worked in intelligence agencies and military groups - has convinced him that the American government has covered up the truth about UFOs for 50 years. He is trying to persuade Congress to grant his sources immunity to tell "the real story" of events such as the so-called Roswell incident - the alleged crash of a flying saucer in New Mexico in 1947.

"Many of these folks were under high-security clearances, they took oaths and they feel they cannot talk without some form of immunity," Mitchell said. "It takes a brave person to come out on something like this."

"Make no mistake, Roswell happened. I've seen secret files which show the government knew about it - but decided not to tell the public." he said.

Corso is still a pretty controversial figure. Not that it couldn't be true, but just as frustrating as the Majestic-12 documents. These all are linked together. If Roswell never happened, then Corso is a fraud and the MJ-12 documents (or some of them) are a hoax.


[Edited on 27-5-2004 by gzhpcu]

gzhpu -- I was only joking with my previous post.

I absolutely believe that something out of the ordinary happened in Roswell.

It was not a weather balloon or test dummies, etc.

In my opinion that is

How are we ever going to find out? Ask the air force and you get a "Roswell: Case closed" report... How can you ask the air force to investigate itself if it is suspected of a cover-up?

Even though polls show that more and more of the general public believe in ufos and that the government is involved in a cover-up, still lots of professionals are afraid to get involved in the ufo issue, fearing ridicule from their peers and potential damage to their careers.

When an event like Greer's disclosure project news conference in 2001 occurs, it does not get much coverage from the media, even though some very credible witnesses participated in the event. The national press is under control and does not report much on ufo events.

We have the general public who is entertained by Speilberg, SciFi channel and the tabloid coverage of ufos (but generally has never seriously looked into the subject) and does not feel particularly feel strongly about a need-to-know on ufos from the government, because they feel more directly affected by questions regarding the economy, unemployment, the war in Iraq, etc. I do not see them pressuring congressmen to reveal the facts (they haven't for over 50 years...). Try bringing up the subject of ufos with any circle of friends who are not from the ufo community and in most cases you will see them smirk...

I see no motivation for the professionals to "stick their necks" out and demand disclosure. They mostly think of their careers first and are rarely idealistic. Greer tried with his witnesses and still nothing has come out of it. He seems to be running out of money, and not getting much support, for whatever reason.

Unless some dramatic event happens which can not be ignored and is acknowledged by the world press - i.e. a real daylight landing, I do not see that we can achieve any kind of disclosure within the foreseeable future.

I've been to a couple of UFO conventions and asked about this and why the coverup. I was told that it's covered because the government doesn't want the general public to know that they DON'T control the skies. They want the general public to believe that America (land of the free - home of the brave) controls the skies over America, but in reality...they don't. Well they do to a certain degree, but not totally.

From the photos i've seen of the junk found at the Roswell site, i'd have to say it was nothing more than a crashed weather balloon. If you cant accept that then whatever, believe whatever you want, but personally, I dont think it was caused by alien aircraft.

Another theory (if Corso is right) is that the U.S. does not want to share the technology of the crashed ufo with any other nation. The theory goes on that reverse-engineering has made all the big technology jumps possible. This is a central theme in Greer's Disclosure book. (IMHO possible but the jury is still out...)

Aliens are deep space pilots who set off from earth thousands of years ago.... they are coming back to find this much different and we are willing to assimilate thier technologys

----------Originally posted by Jaypeth----------
Aliens are deep space pilots who set off from earth thousands of years ago.... they are coming back to find this much different and we are willing to assimilate thier technologys
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you have proof of this silly theory than by all means, put up or shut up. I'm tired of seeing immature claims like this getting made without the labels "I think" or "Maybe" or In my opinion".


I believe something at Roswell happened and though my mind is not made up on the origin of the craft, I believe it is Unidentified. The UFO Community are so entrenched in this legend though that no amount or proof will sway most from the belief that it was an alien craft.

[Edited on 5-27-2004 by Preest]

tikno88,
The assertion is that the pictures with General Ramey show the debris of a ballon instead of the original debris found by Brazel and given to Marcel.

[Edited on 27-5-2004 by gzhpcu]

I might add this in: 5 years ago I was on a cruise from Vancouver B.C. to Acapulco. I had been discussing UFO's and abductions with several people. One evening in one of the lounges a total stranger approached me and asked if I was the one relating the UFO and abduction stories. I told him I was. He asked me if I thought these were real and I told him I thought they were. We discussed this for close to a half hour. This gentleman finally said he had to leave, and handed me his business card. He worked for the CIA..not as an agent, but in some other capacity. His parting words were: "Anything you read, or hear about UFO's, or abductions.....Believe it!"

Originally posted by Dog Soldier
handed me his business card. He worked for the CIA..not as an agent, but in some other capacity. His parting words were: "Anything you read, or hear about UFO's, or abductions.....Believe it!"

NICE!!! i like it!

anyhow i beleive that the crash in roswell is actully a UFO, the evidence will come out one day, but sadly probably not in out lifetime.

As is the way with all things nowdays.

Originally posted by Dog Soldier
I know a gentleman who lives in California. He flew B-24's during WW2 and was stationed at Roswell in July of 47. I asked him: "Ted...was it really a weather balloon?" His answer: "Not on your life!" So...coming from one who was there when it happened...it happened!


Originally posted by Dog Soldier
5 years ago I was on a cruise from Vancouver B.C. to Acapulco. I had been discussing UFO's and abductions with several people. One evening in one of the lounges a total stranger approached me and asked if I was the one relating the UFO and abduction stories. I told him I was. He asked me if I thought these were real and I told him I thought they were. We discussed this for close to a half hour. This gentleman finally said he had to leave, and handed me his business card. He worked for the CIA..not as an agent, but in some other capacity. His parting words were: "Anything you read, or hear about UFO's, or abductions.....Believe it!"

I find it highly interesting and suspect that you seem to be in all the right places, meet or know all the right people who have all the right things to say. I'm waiting for you to mention a coversation you had with a coroner about alien autopsies and the wink and smile he gave you. I'm not calling you a liar...but in my opinion...you're a liar.

[Edited on 5-27-2004 by Preest]

Good point Preest, i went over some of Dog Soldier's remarks and when u think about it you could be right about him.

Hey Dog Soldier have u ever seen a alien thats from uranus? lol only joking!

Na pal if what u say is really true then maybe u are a magnet for this type of stuff!