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My reasoning as to why 9/11 conspiracy believers are wrong

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posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 


Roswell wasn't seen by thousands of people though it too had an official story that changed multiple times. My point is that if you accept an oppinion without verifying its authenticity you do yourself a disservice.

If you came to your conclusion based on research and independent thought then I have no grounds for debate. It simply comes to a matter of oppinion.

Thank you for the reply OP

Cheers




posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 10:58 AM
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You don't think an organization capable of such a conspiracy would NOT be capable of merely hiding 4 planes and its passengers?

Pfffft...

Look, I don't care WHICH side of the line you stand on, but if you believe the NIST report as gospel, then it is YOU who are the idiot.

[edit on 1/23/2010 by SquirrelNutz]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
Ok, you've got the passengers boarding the plane, they get on the plane - the plane takes off. The plane is taken over my terrorists, the plane hits the building, all the passengers die.

Ok, so, if you believe the planes that hit the towers were not the same planes with all the passengers inside, wtf happened to all the passengers? The same goes for the pentagon and the one that crashed in the woods.

I don't understand the thinking of you people. What happened to those hundreds of people in all those planes....it's just ridiculous



Maybe they were taken some place and shot, maybe they got a new life under new names and a lot of dollars to be apart of the conspiracy, who knows.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 



Apart from the FACT that Penn and Teller are alsome, it's what a PROFESSIONAL says in the the video that i embed the vid in the first place. Go to 6:30 on the vid and be informed.


BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahaha

*gasp for air*

BWAAAAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Wheeze]

Dude - one guy. and THAT guy?! Puh. Leaze. Try spending some time on 911reasearch.com or 911truth.com.

You want to talk about "Professionals"? How about the 1000s of physicists, architectural & structural engineers, pilots, and other PROFESSIONALS that all say otherwise.

Nevermind the fact that that day had a variety of FIRSTs, including the only steel structures before or since that have collapsed in pancake form, under their own weight, due to fire, since the inception of steel structures. Ever.

Please, do research before posting nonsense.

[edit on 1/23/2010 by SquirrelNutz]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by truthquest
 





1. Fragments of undetonated explosive has been found littered throughout the World Trade Center site. What does that mean to you?

2. The damage path created at the Pentagon could not have been created by the object that hit it since six eye witnesses all very clearly saw the plane flying on a path that went nowhere near the light poles that were "struck down".

3. The flight data recorder in one of the planes have been proven to be falsified.

4. You could not ever make cell phone calls from planes under any circumstance when you are more than a couple thousand feet in the air during the year 2001. The FBI confirmed this and rather bluntly implied that the man who claimed to be calling his wife was telling a lie. There were all these calls that were supposedly made by cell phones on planes but in point of fact that was a law of physics violation.

5. Every investigation was stopped at every step of the way. The police even went so far as to confiscate any and all photos they could of the crime scene! While the twin towers were literally collapsing, police in the area were tasked specifically with going around and confiscating pictures of what happened.

6. The insider trading that happened which banked on the airline stocks getting tanked the day after 9/11. Gee, you go ahead and explain why there was record high interest in the price of the stock going down the day before 9/11. You can't.


Proving the point that truthers are nuts ?

1 - What explosives ? Considering Bomb Squad from my County spent
3 weeks at site doing search and rescue along with NYPD Bomb Squad
Had Fire Fighters and demolition experts crawling over scene for
months and found nothing. What is your evidence?

2. What 6 witnesses? Pilots 4 Truther? Who have been discredited

3. What Flight recorder? AA77? Again Pilots 4 Truth ?

4 If you bother to check would find that the calls were made on Air Fones
which are specificlly designed to work from aircraft in flight - only 2 calls
made by cellphones from Flight 93 and that at end when plane at 7000ft


Can go on. but truthers ignore anything that doesn't feed their fantasy...



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by Emerald The Paradigm
Frankly, I could care less about what happened on that day anymore because it's been almost a decade.

However, I question what crap hole this country is going down on BASED on that day.

So on that one note itself, I will say the ENTIRE Bush and Obama administration are criminals.

Take a closer look at the healthcare legislature that is 5,000 pages old. Every congressman has said they will NOT read the entire bill.

What does that tell you? It means they are a bunch of lazy coked up morons that are running the country.

Not to mention one of the MANY things in the healthcare (pages 30-50) say that if the bill is passed the Government will officially have access to your bank and financial records. They can WITHDRAW money from your account, and also limit you on how much healthcare you will receive. It is $5,000 per individual and $10,000 per family. Doctors will also all receive the same pay, and the government can NOT be sued by anybody regarding the healthcare.

It's clauses like that in the healthcare bill that makes me think which crap hole we are going in NOT some cave men who live in a desert.


Never forget that the media started to question some of the weird aspects of that day in Sept until the Anthrax Attacks, which targeted the media and the DNC leadership in the Senate before disappearing as an unsolved terrorist attack case.

The Anthrax Letters all referenced the 9/11 attacks and referenced Allah, to make sure the recipients knew to connect them to the 9/11 attacks. This weaponized Anthrax requires at least 3 years and specialized environments, and extremely sophisticated equipment to manufacture, and it was all set to mail as soon as the dust settled in the 9/11 Attacks. It was then mailed to the DNC Senate leadership and two media outlets - one print and one electronic. They stopped immediately as did all media and government inquiries into the attacks of 9/11.

Since then, the federal government has done completely insane things, and bankrupted us with two wars (three if you count the War on Terror) to the tune of trillions of tax payer debt, and then the enormous Wall Street bailouts, without any question whatsoever. Now you have the entire Demodcratic super majority self destructing over what should have been a no-brainer healthcare bill, with some Senators completely opposing their own political stands (ones they held only a year ago) as if they were desperate to destroy whatever it is that they touch, and right in front of the entire nation.

None of this makes sense unless you see the Anthrax Attacks as a second wave of terror, meant to be an ongoing hostage scenario that is still ongoing that was "announced" by the events of Sept 11. Consider that the FBI refuses to charge bin Laden with the 9/11 Attacks, and refuses to acknowledge that they have those dozens of camera videos of the Pentagon attack, even though everyone know they have them. This is the kind of behavior that suggests a "gun being held to their heads" in the form of many more Anthrax letters poised to be mailed if they stop playing ball with the international corporate criminals who have been using our elected leaders to empty our Treasury ever since the 9/11 Attacks.

9/11 was just the introductory salvo. It's about the Anthrax and the highest placed Washington leaders and national media chiefs know about it and are trying to deal with it as best they can. This doesn't have to end well, and probably won't. The aim is to destroy us as the most successful Democracy on earth by way of our inability to actually govern ourselves. Then the case against democracy will be overwhelming. Just like it ended up with Communism. The Old World wants its world back and we're the only thing still in the way. Only difference is that kingdoms are now holding companies. Same families, new branding.

Just stuff to think about.

[edit on 23-1-2010 by NorEaster]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:08 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by andre18

Originally posted by Another Vodka
reply to post by andre18
 


Penn and Teller? I urinate heavily on them.


Apart from the FACT that Penn and Teller are alsome, it's what a PROFESSIONAL says in the the video that i embed the vid in the first place. Go to 6:30 on the vid and be informed.


Andre, you need to spend AT LEAST 12 hours reviewing ATS threads on this subject and ... think again. It's obvious from your posting that you are a newbie to this subject.


I'm not going to spend 12 hours wasting my time. I'm a noob but thats irrelevant. It's like when you watch an atheist vs christian debate, you already know who's going to win. There's no need to waist time researching when u already know what reality is.


Ok, you are unwilling to do more investigating, thinking and reasoning. You don't want to "waist" (sic) your time. Good luck in your quest for the truth.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
Ok, you've got the passengers boarding the plane, they get on the plane - the plane takes off. The plane is taken over my terrorists, the plane hits the building, all the passengers die.

Ok, so, if you believe the planes that hit the towers were not the same planes with all the passengers inside, wtf happened to all the passengers? The same goes for the pentagon and the one that crashed in the woods.

I don't understand the thinking of you people. What happened to those hundreds of people in all those planes....it's just ridiculous




Prove what hit the pentagon and you will be the first. Until the time it is proven, every possible scenario is simply a conspiracy theory.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 


do you honestly think those people would have been let go?

If 9/11 was an inside job.. a prison camp on a good day for them..a bullet in the back of the head most probably....



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:25 AM
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You are entitled to your opinions, but calling people who do not believe the official story nuts is nothing short of arrogant and immature.
Maybe its time to start a thread titled "My reasoning on why 911 deniers are nuts".
You offer nothing in your thread but your opinion and a friggin Penn and Teller video? Wow , I mean really wow.
This is a VERY sensitive issue to alot of people and all you have done by posting this is aggravated and angered a bunch of people. What is your resoning behind this post? Why not just visit one of the many existing 911 threads and state your opinon there?
I know the answer to that already just from your tone and insults towards others.
I personally do not believe the OS as it has way too many flaws in it. The story has been changed so many times that it stinks of lies.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by thebulldog
reply to post by andre18
 


Roswell wasn't seen by thousands of people though it too had an official story that changed multiple times. My point is that if you accept an oppinion without verifying its authenticity you do yourself a disservice.


Point taken about roswell, probably not the best example of what i was trying to get at.
A better example, is that the evidence you point to as support for you claim, is so unreliable and week, that it's not real evidence. Because if it was, it would be looked upon seriously by the world and it wouldn't be called a conspiracy, but it is.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by SquirrelNutz
You don't think an organization capable of such a conspiracy would NOT be capable of merely hiding 4 planes and its passengers?


Great, they hid them, where are they now? This is like 9 years later man.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:42 AM
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As all realities are real and do happen in a multi verse then a 9/11 government approved plan is real no less real then what anyone thinks.

So debating how it happened, is really a waste of time, for no mater who or how it was done it has happen every way you can think of. For we live in a multi verse and all things happens, it's just a matter of witch reality you fall in that make you believe that the events that day happened the way you think.

The real question is this.

For every action there is a equal and opposite reaction what was 9/11 opposite reaction thats what the real question is here, this has far more importance than WHO DUNIT.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by truthquest
 





1. Fragments of undetonated explosive has been found littered throughout the World Trade Center site. What does that mean to you?


Proving the point that truthers are nuts ?

1 - What explosives ? Considering Bomb Squad from my County spent
3 weeks at site doing search and rescue along with NYPD Bomb Squad
Had Fire Fighters and demolition experts crawling over scene for
months and found nothing. What is your evidence?

Can go on. but truthers ignore anything that doesn't feed their fantasy...


1. www.bentham-open.org...
"As measured using DSC, the material ignites and reacts vigorously at a temperature of approximately 430 °C, with a rather narrow exotherm, matching fairly closely an independent observation on a known super-thermite sample. The low temperature of ignition and the presence of iron oxide grains less than 120 nm show that the material is not conventional thermite (which ignites at temperatures above 900 °C) but very likely a form of super-thermite."

So in other words, they are pretty sure the undetonated explosive material they've found littered throughout the entire WTC site is explosive because THEY'VE EXPLODED IT! They are seen pictured in the article exploding pieces of the undetonated explosive they found throughout the debris. So tell me again that isn't proof... I really need to hear it again from you just to make sure you are in denial and only believe the official story because "they would never do that and that's the end of it".

I've never had reason to believe the local investigation/clean-up crew made an effort to find additional explosives. Why would they? Like you, they "knew the answers already without having to investigate". Furthermore, these undetonated explosive fragments only exist as small chips that are hard to spot with the naked eye because they very small fragments.

I could go on and back up all the smoking gun proofs with factual data that show I do really know what I'm talking about. But why bother? Already by the end of point one I've already shown proof that 9/11 was an inside job. So why go on?

EDIT - Edited out calling you "nuts"... I really should never stoop to that level.

[edit on 23-1-2010 by truthquest]

[edit on 23-1-2010 by truthquest]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 


I agree with the idea that it is not real evidence it is merely circumstancial. The stock market moves were strange but not evidence of a conspiracy. Hence why I have no allegiance to anyone alternate theory. However my only conention was the idea that all who question the events of 9/11 are nuts. I question what was know and what was done about and the suspicious moves on the market just prior to the attacks. I will probably never have definitive answers but I will also read anything that comes up.

Thanks for a respectful debate its a nice to be challenged. The only way we grow
lol

Cheers



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:57 AM
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9/11 MADNESS
post removed because of personal attacks

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posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 12:09 PM
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9/11 MADNESS
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posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by andre18
People don't need huge amounts of evidence to tell them something that's just obvious.


Like you think truthers are nuts because they do not blindly accept the official story, truthers think it's nuts to blindly accept the official story. It's a symmetrical relationship, if you will. I say blindly, because of the apathy you describe above: People don't need X to tell them something that's just obvious.
Your statement is logically correct: if it's truly obvious, then there is no need for a huge amount of evidence. The fallacy in your reasoning, if there is one, is then the following: whether anything is obvious or not is a matter of subjectivity. You can never prove that something is obvious (because it takes consciousness to judge something as obvious - anything that's proximal is only proximal in relation to a frame of reference; you need to be an interpreter to experience this proximity). Of course we can describe our subjective experiences and hence explain why something is obvious to ourselves, but that's still all in the realm of subjectivity.

Now especially in the case of 9/11, there are a lot of people who think the evidence put forward by the mainstream media doesn't quite match up with the 'obvious' explanation of a handful of hijacking muslims. Again, this 'obvious non-obviousness' is subjective.
However, there have been many a thread right here on ATS with a simple list, explaining why the official story seems impossible to some. Here's an handful:

25 Intolerable Contradictions: The Final Undoing of the Official 9/11 Story
Reasons To Doubt The Official Story Of September 11th, 2001
Are 9/11 Official Story Proponents Really the Unpatriotic?
So you still believe the official story?

I'm not proposing that you read those, but pay some attention to those titles. All the threads directly confront the idea that you don't need more information about 9/11. They all have their own reasons (although many overlap). Sure, there are more 'alternative explanations' out there than are possible (in the end, only one of those really happened), so many theories are necessarily wrong. But if I'm not mistaken, the greatest goal of the 9/11 truth movement is to show how the official story cannot be true. Even if all the alternative stories are wrong, contradictions are contradictions. It's those contradictions that are most important - because you do need an explanation for contradictions. Many of those contradictions never got an official explanation, while 9/11 is arguably the most influential event of the whole previous decade.

If you'd spot a contradiction in the official story of an event so influential, what would you do? Leave it be, or try to find out what caused the contradiction?

Admittedly, some theories are 'way out there', and some truthers don't mind throwing their unpolished ideas on the internet. The point I wish to make is that just because there's some crazy in there, doesn't mean all of it is crazy; this is true not just for 9/11 truthers, not just for ATS, but for the world and everything in it. If you're interested in the most sane contradictions, I'll gladly snoop around for a bit.

P.S. Hope the term 'truthers' hasn't become derogative, my apologies if it has.


[edit on 23-1-2010 by scraze]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 12:18 PM
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9/11 MADNESS
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