Ahmadinejad serves up bitter-sweet world view

reply to post by mmiichael

Dangerous when the moonies become leaders of countries and actually buy into self-serving fantasies. Possibly a source of problems for about 70 million people in Iran, most of whom are decidedly not paranoid schizophrenics and don't want to be swept along in someone's religious fantasies.

The Zionist Manifesto is a real historical document Michael. The Zionist Manifesto was not simply about founding an Israeli state either. It was actually laid out in black and white and published in the form of a book, and it was written and published by Zionist Israel’s founders.

Since the Zionist goals were then as they are now much broader and far more ambitious than just founding the Israeli State and those goals have not as of yet been completely realized, but 63 years of Israeli history shows marked and continued progress towards those broader goals there is no such thing as modern day Zionism.

Rather what there is, are continued Zionist goals that that Zionists love to pretend don’t exist based on their constant operational mode of people don’t really know history, they are only supposed to know and accept what we tell them in the here and now or they will be subject to childish attempts to ridicule, deflect and dismiss.

Any one who claims to know both history and Israeli history who has not read the Zionist Manifesto which rare authentic copies of exist in Israeli Museums and detail the Manifesto or simply either not very studied or are weaving a tale of their own.

While for the most part its safe to pretend those nonsensical assertions of Zionism was just about establishing a modern day Israel, everyone from Herzl on down has purported, and written different.

While it’s also easy and convenient to dismiss and ridicule Iran the truth is that not only have percentage wise a larger degree of Israelis have fled Israel because of the Zionist Government and its policies as have percentage wise fled Iran because of their laws.

The truth is while Iran is a theocracy using Islamic religious laws; the Jews also have their own religious laws written in a specific book of Jewish Laws called the Talmud.

The larger truth is that Talmudic laws are written into the New Testament and much of the Code Laws of Western Governments so a lot more people are in fact exposed unknowingly to Talmudic law based on Judaic theology than those exposed knowing and unknowingly to Sharia Islamic theologian law.

So the reality is Israel is not that different than Iran, both are widely ruled by theologian law and both nations have totalitarian regimes that persecute the minorities in their respective countries based on religious differences.

Zionist Israel just happens to kill, imprison, and torture a greater number of dissenters than Iran does.

Where as Iran is at least up front and honest about what extent Sharia law has on their system, the Zionists and in many cases the Jews themselves are not honest or upfront about to what extent Talmudic laws are not just used in Israel but written into and imposed and several governments and legal codes throughout the world.

Just like Zionists who bash devout Orthodox Jews swear up and down that there is no difference between Zionism and Judaism when obviously their own actions display that clearly there is in doing such things, and just like Zionists like to pretend that there is no Zionist agenda except for a long realized one of rebirthing an Israeli nation in defiance of Judaism’s teaching which clearly states Israel can only be reestablished by it’s Messiah, that like to pretend that Zionist Manifesto is not proudly displayed in Israeli museums and there has not been a day in the last 70 years since the Manifesto was written that the Zionists have not been working on and making progress to those very real goals as outlined in the Zionist manifesto, they also love to pretend that Talmudic law isn’t used in Christianity and Western Governments.

In fact the Zionists are such liars and distorters that the only thing they can do when someone knows real history and law is just to act like fools and pretend that none of these very real and existent things are real or exist.

Talmudic law though in fact condones this when the people being lied to are Gentiles.

Israel is about 20 times more dangerous than Iran because unlike Iran which is pretty honest and above board when it comes to both the good that it does and its excesses, the Zionists and Israel on the other hand lie so much, with such frequency I doubt Zionists and Israeli politicians are even capable of speaking a truth.

Originally posted by Maslo

Originally posted by SyphonX
I love people that come in here and claim Iran persecutes and kills Christians, non-believers and "protesters". Either that, or they are "imprisoned."


Yet you fail to recognize the west does this on a near daily basis. G20 summits ring any bells? How about the Olympics? How about any protest? You see all those shock troops and violence?

Oh, that's right.. all those protesters deserved it, and anyone killed was 'an accident', but since it happened in Iran, then it was Ahmadinejad himself that did these acts, and he is a tyrant.

Not to mention, we are at war with TWO countries and in conflicts with PLENTY more, while we try to start MORE war with Iran, Pakistan, Yemen and even Venezuela.

*Snip*

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[edit on 1/24/2010 by semperfortis]

en.wikipedia.org...

Yes, even western democracy is not perfect. But situation in Iran and other middle eastern countries is FAR worse. You just cant compare atrocities of that regime to our and say they are even remotely similar. They arent!

[edit on 24-1-2010 by Maslo]

Last time I checked US and her allies have killed well over 1.5 million in Iraq and other countries.

How is Iran FAR worse ???!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The Zionist Manifesto is a real historical document Michael. The Zionist Manifesto was not simply about founding an Israeli state either. It was actually laid out in black and white and published in the form of a book, and it was written and published by Zionist Israel’s founders.

Since the Zionist goals were then as they are now much broader and far more ambitious than just founding the Israeli State and those goals have not as of yet been completely realized, but 63 years of Israeli history shows marked and continued progress towards those broader goals there is no such thing as modern day Zionism.

Rather what there is, are continued Zionist goals that that Zionists love to pretend don’t exist based on their constant operational mode of people don’t really know history, they are only supposed to know and accept what we tell them in the here and now or they will be subject to childish attempts to ridicule, deflect and dismiss.

Any one who claims to know both history and Israeli history who has not read the Zionist Manifesto which rare authentic copies of exist in Israeli Museums and detail the Manifesto or simply either not very studied or are weaving a tale of their own.

While for the most part its safe to pretend those nonsensical assertions of Zionism was just about establishing a modern day Israel, everyone from Herzl on down has purported, and written different.

While it’s also easy and convenient to dismiss and ridicule Iran the truth is that not only have percentage wise a larger degree of Israelis have fled Israel because of the Zionist Government and its policies as have percentage wise fled Iran because of their laws.

The truth is while Iran is a theocracy using Islamic religious laws; the Jews also have their own religious laws written in a specific book of Jewish Laws called the Talmud.

The larger truth is that Talmudic laws are written into the New Testament and much of the Code Laws of Western Governments so a lot more people are in fact exposed unknowingly to Talmudic law based on Judaic theology than those exposed knowing and unknowingly to Sharia Islamic theologian law.

So the reality is Israel is not that different than Iran, both are widely ruled by theologian law and both nations have totalitarian regimes that persecute the minorities in their respective countries based on religious differences.

It's easy to plunge through centuries of historical writings and create linkages and patterns that extend throughout a whole cultural system. The great mathematician and economic theorist John Nash did that better than anyone alive. He won the Nobel Prize for his equilibrium theory that revolutionized data analysis.

Of course Nash was also a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic who spent his life seeing patterns and connections that were not really there. After years of therapy and medication he came to realize he was seeing things that really weren't there.

The Greeks had a robust detailed mythology which still today infuses our language and Western culture. But no one really believes the world is hoisted up on Atlas's shoulders or that Mercury is fleeing across the heavens in a fiery chariot. Just as no one in Scandinavia believes Thor, the god of Thunder, causes rainstorms.

For the most part people are products of their day to day experiences supplemented by cultural acclimatization. Even religious people obeying traditions and rituals don't actually take all that seriously the narrow uninformed views of desert dwelling nomads of millenia past.

We still see vestigial parallels and refrains to the past, but advanced people incorporate inherited myth cycles not live by them.

Ditto the supposed Zionist ambitions and world conquering agendas for which there is zero indication. Jews were promised control of the British Mandated Palestine region after it was relinquished by the defeated Turkish Ottomans. With their new found oil reserves as leverage, the Arabs exerted pressure on the British and reduced the Jewish land transfer to 23% of the original bargain. The narrow strip extending form the Mediterranean adjacent to the newly created Palestinian state, Jordan. Two small territories were left without sovereignty which Egypt and Jordan seized and occupied for a couple decades.

Israel did actually expand it's control when the invading Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, with the aid of Saudi Arabia and the UAE tried to destroy Israel and pushed back. They returned the Sinai to Egypt in exchange for a peace agreement, and Gaza, which Egypt did not want back, was relinquished a few years ago.

So in fact Israel has shrunk considerably in the past few decades, still holding onto the West Bank, which contrary to current mythologies, was actually British not controlled by the people calling themselves Palestinians since 1967.

Israel could easily defeat Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and others in an all out unrestrained wars. But it hasn't.

People on conspiracy site threads can make all sorts of wild unfounded extravagant claims, just as John Nash thought there were hidden Russian codes in magazine ads.

But no sign of the Mighty Zionist conquering armies and no indication of one except in the hyperactive imagination of people who regularly impugn the Jews of the world with all sorts of malign conspiratorial power seeking notions.

Paranoids agreeing on the same persecution delusions do not make them any realer.

[edit on 24-1-2010 by mmiichael]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Excellent train of thought sir.

History will repeat itself , if we don't learn from it

reply to post by mmiichael

It's easy to plunge through centuries of historical writings and create linkages and patterns that extend throughout a whole cultural system. The great mathematician and economic theorist John Nash did that better than anyone alive. He won the Nobel Prize for his equilibrium theory that revolutionized data analysis.

I would say for some it’s not all that easy at all to do this, but the truth is for some they would deny the validity of such academically sound approaches when it works against them. Say, for instance a Zionist who wants to pretend nothing can be drawn from Israel’s documented history except sheer coincidence and accidents and never deserved persecution. While at the same time same said Zionist will do the easy thing and connect the dots of say Iran’s history using the same type of trying to draw conclusions from history approach that would render faulty data according to said Zionist if its Israel you use that procedure with, but accurate data if its Iran you use that procedure with.

Like to have your cake much and eat it too Michael.

When confronted with the very real evidence of the Zionist manifesto and it’s historical as well as its present day and future significance, as well as the very real evidence of Talmudic theological laws and customs being purposefully woven into Christian scripture as well as code laws and statutes in countries like the United States of America all one could do is look for hypocritically inspired ways to deny and deflect.

Since as I mentioned the evidence is very real, the hysterical reality is my friend Michael is that the very ways and procedures you follow to garner information against every government, state, person and religion and sect you don’t approve of are the very same ways and procedures your decry as being worthless when using them produces real evidence of Zionist fraud, crimes against humanity, thefts, deceits and agendas.

I often wonder if the people who are so adept at avoiding examining their own methods and style imagine that those they argue with are really so dumb as to not notice the obvious or if they themselves are so shy a full load of bricks that they really don’t notice.

There is an old saying Michael, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. I think there are very real reasons why tens of thousands of ultra religious Orthodox Jews would prefer to live in Iran than Israel. Reasons we see displayed time and time again on these boards through Zionist hypocrisy and the old don’t do as I do, do as I say nonsense.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


When confronted with the very real evidence of the Zionist manifesto and it’s historical as well as its present day and future significance, as well as the very real evidence of Talmudic theological laws and customs being purposefully woven into Christian scripture as well as code laws and statutes in countries like the United States of America all one could do is look for hypocritically inspired ways to deny and deflect.

Since as I mentioned the evidence is very real, the hysterical reality is my friend Michael is that the very ways and procedures you follow to garner information against every government, state, person and religion and sect you don’t approve of are the very same ways and procedures your decry as being worthless when using them produces real evidence of Zionist fraud, crimes against humanity, thefts, deceits and agendas.

I often wonder if the people who are so adept at avoiding examining their own methods and style imagine that those they argue with are really so dumb as to not notice the obvious or if they themselves are so shy a full load of bricks that they really don’t notice.

There is an old saying Michael, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. I think there are very real reasons why tens of thousands of ultra religious Orthodox Jews would prefer to live in Iran than Israel. Reasons we see displayed time and time again on these boards through Zionist hypocrisy and the old don’t do as I do, do as I say nonsense.

Yeah yeah yeah. Evil Zionists and their manifestos, Talmudic embedding in Christianity and the US Constitution, etc etc.

There's a guy on this site, orangetom, who believes all this nonsense.

Amazing what you can string together with a few key world on Google. Also amazing how such weight matter have eluded scholars, writers, historians, who devote their lives to these study of these things.

Maybe some people are seeing patterns in the wallpaper that aren't really there?

And of course in the fantasy fiction world of conspiracies where up really means down, rationality and common sense take a back seat to wonky worldscale millenial mass plottings of evil groups to control mankind. It makes sense now.

On a small detail note, how can there tens of thousands of contented Othodox Jews in Iran when 85% of the Jews have fled the country.

Only 20,000 left in a population of 75 million, most beating a hasty retreat after the glorious Islamic Revolution 30 years ago.

But why let facts interfere with a good fairy tale.




[edit on 24-1-2010 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by Maslo
en.wikipedia.org...

Yes, even western democracy is not perfect. But situation in Iran and other middle eastern countries is FAR worse. You just cant compare atrocities of that regime to our and say they are even remotely similar. They arent!

Why is it far worse, hm? It's *far* worse because you can't come to terms with the reality that your country is just as barbaric, if not more so? You failed to comment on the fact that we have been at war every decade on foreign countries, always based on shaky preconceptions and notions, "To Protect Freedom".

Western imperialism has always intrigued me on just how arrogant it is. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not praising Ahmed's leadership, quite the contrary.. Iran needs a bit of work.

This kind of attitude reminds me of the way the Lords & Ladies of the old crown used to conduct themselves in every day life. Raise your chin and be a good lad whilst you witness a hanging in the town square. Drink your tea and be a gentleman while your country invades tens and hundreds of defenseless foreign and sovereign nations.. those savages! How dare they mock the crown! Off with their heads!

The generals would parade themselves in the most splendid attire and partake in the most marvelous events. All while millions suffer in their wake. Yes, civilized indeed.

Today is no different. The traditions have passed, with the attire and smug attitudes, but the philosophy remains. The arrogant, apathetic spirit that is still infecting the defenseless in this world.

Ahmedinejad may well be a poor ruler, and his underlines may well be quite barbaric in a lot of cases. At least they haven't destroyed about 50 countries in the past 80 years.

[edit on 24-1-2010 by SyphonX]

reply to post by mmiichael

Amazing what you can string together with a few key world on Google. Also amazing how such weight matter have eluded scholars, writers, historians, who devote their lives to these study of these things.

Maybe some people are seeing patterns in the wallpaper that aren't really there?

What is amazing that a corporate managed and driven publishing system tends to produce works by other wise independent people but very much writers, scholars and historians that understand having a marketable, and politically correct story to sell to the corporate publishing monopolies is the key o success in what is a commercial field, dominated by the Powers that Be at the publishing/broadcast/or grant process.

The reality is Michael is most human beings not only ask incomplete and poorly thought out questions but will accept poorly thought out and incomplete answers.

When you look at the media and academic landscape it is dominated by key and central players who can make careers and grants flourish and prosper or stop then in their tracks through the power and influence they yield.

So the reality is not only do you ask a poorly thought out and leading question that regard you offer an incomplete and assumptive answer by way of inference designed to both deceive and placate the ignorant.

Further in regards to sources of information I don’t’ spend a lot of time googling things looking for ready made answers to copy and post, what I do instead is a lot of detective work by asking high quality and complete questions and looking for high quality and complete answers.

While once again this is a disingenuous tactic since you are fond of copy and pasting things from highly biased and prejudicial and bigoted websites and blogs that not only don’t ask very intelligent questions themselves in their own investigations but look for information and dubious sources that will validate that prejudice and bias and racial and religious intolerance that the war on terror is pretty much all about.

Further when it comes to the detective work of a good writer or historian the fact remains that not all sources are available to a wrier of historian. If you are writing an exposé on the Vatican chances are they aren’t gong to be opening up what is likely the best source of material, there on library.

A great detective who is what a great conspiracy theorist is in fact often sees things that people who deliberately ask poor and leading questions aimed at denial and deflection, and give and accept incomplete and overly simplistic assumptive answers never see.

Anyone who has spent any length of time researching Zionist, Israeli or Jewish conspiracies knows that most Zionists and Israelis are like the three notorious little monkeys who see ne evil, hear no evil and speak no evil where Zionism and Israel is concerned.

However when the focus is on an Islamic nation like Iran all of a sudden they see all kinds of wallpaper patterns, designs and leading questions and answers designed to validate their assertions.

Originally posted by SyphonX
Why is it far worse, hm? It's *far* worse because you can't come to terms with the reality that your country is just as barbaric, if not more so? You failed to comment on the fact that we have been at war every decade on foreign countries, always based on shaky preconceptions and notions, "To Protect Freedom".
[edit on 24-1-2010 by SyphonX]

Sometimes, war is the only way prevent greater evil - or do you think war against nazi germany was "barbaric"?
Those wars you speak of were justified - war in Kosovo was necessary to prevent further genocide, war in Afghanistan was the only way to stop Taliban regime and its atrocoties. Even majority of Afghan population supports it.
War in Iraq is not that clear, albeit I think Saddam deserved it for his crimes. But maybe he could be removed without full scale war..
www.worldpublicopinion.org...

And if we are talking about crimes of the regime against its own citizens, there is NO way you could compare Iranian or other islamic regimes to western democracy. Havent you read the wiki link?