Mother 'not clever enough to raise child' has baby snatched by social workers

Mother 'not clever enough to raise child' has baby snatched by social workers

www.dailymail.co.uk

A couple who fled to Ireland after social workers threatened to remove their baby at birth have had the newborn snatched after all.

Kerry Robertson, 17, who has mild learning difficulties, and Mark McDougall, 25, went on the run after British social services said she was not clever enough to raise a child.

But just four days after Ben was born, Irish social workers marched into the maternity ward and forced them to hand him over.

They were told they were acting at the behest of their British

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.daily mail.co.uk
www.dailymail.co.uk
www.dailymail.co.uk
dailymail

Mod Edit: Review This Link: Instructions for the Breaking News Forums: Copy The Exact Headline





[edit on 1/24/2010 by semperfortis]

This drama has been going on for awhile now in the u.k, all reported in the papers at the time, first social services stopped this young ladies wedding claiming she was to stupid to understand what she was doing, yet she has only mild learning difficulties, a tad harsh.
But the i think the main point here is social services are now beholden to the bureaucratic state, which is becoming far too politically correct, far too uncaring to the public it serves anf far too BIG!.
this is not an isolated case, this has happend before to many families, and the suspicion is that these children are being taken to fulfill quotas from central government.
ie, diversity quotas, a certain percentage of children being adopted must be adopted by homosexual couples, even against the wishes of the biological parents.
Uncles and aunts being turned down to adopt their neices and nephews because they are overweight!

here are some other links to other disturbing cases of state sponsored kidnap, or social engineering, please take the time to skim through them to get a better feel of how heavy handed social services can be.
I would also like to point out that, i know that social services are needed to protect those who need protecting, but wheres the common sense gone!


www.dailymail.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 23-1-2010 by hans kammler]

also here are a couple other links for your perusal,

www.dailymail.co.uk...

www.dailymail.co.uk...


www.dailymail.co.uk...

This is sickness at a new level...

I say all the time in here that Political correctness and the law and all this social determination is bad...

That we need a world that is genuinely diverse, that it's okay for people to live separate by culture or race and that it's okay to be different or have your own way...

I'd apply this even to the stupid, it's just okay... brains, money success isn't everything Love is more important...

The trauma of separation from mom will cause this child far more harm and a less happy life than any mistakes she could ever make... maybe she does screw up, maybe she does run the family off the road in 16 years...

Isn't quality of life more important than length of it?


This is a sick sad world... what they call diversity will be the blandest most unoriginal society in history because there is no intent on anything being diverse just a great beige race in which we all learn the same things the same way, look the same know just as much as we need to and what we are told, not too stupid not too smart... not to white not too Black culture and education by the state...

Philosophy will be written by Hallmark,

Literature will be a Movie,

Politics brought to you by Walmart

This is shameful... it's her child for god's sake it would never be loved by anyone more than her...

its seriously whacky, what they are doing, i find it hard to empathise with these social workers, how they can do what they do.
Give people a little power and i guess it goes straight to their heads.

And the children, i dont see how they themselves can come out of this as happy normal functioning people contributing to a healthy society.
They may be fall victim to depression, drug and alcohol abuse. the more i think about it, i just cant see any good coming of this.

And yeah im sure the progressive liberal governments of the world envisage a future where we are all beige. like the goobacks in southpark

I work with kids from deprived backgrounds. Some go on to college and work, some go on to prison. With very few exceptions, their families are screw-ups or failed humans. One used to take his 13 year old son to the pub every giro day. One has kept her son off a child rape charge by showering the victim.

I have a great relationship with most of the kids that I've worked with. After a while you get to know them and begin to care about them. No BS, they care about me too. They cry on your shoulder etc. The #### parents that some have to go home to would offend most people. I actively hate some of them for how they've spoiled the childhood and future of some of the kids.

So the theme of this thread is all about those ####ing bad social services? The Daily Mail says so does it? They're wrong. They show a couple of cases and then use it as a strawman to attack the whole services. Poor families losing their kids to adoptions. That's genuine 100% BS.

The social services screw up. Some social workers are horrendous. That's true...undeniable. While everyone's criticising them...there are kids in the worst situations you can imagine. They need help. They need to be moved out the families. It's to protect them from cruelty, physical, sexual and emotional abuse. Social Services do this. Nobody else does it. The newspapers and that poisonous rag, The Daily Mail, don't report the stories where a child is rescued and raised in a loving household.

This opinion is mine. It's developed from experience. If anyone grows an opinion from the Daily Mail...it'll be a stunted and miserable opinion. If anyone wants to argue anything in this post...step up and do so. If not, let's just agree that NOTHING is a black and white case when it comes to the well-being of children.

I would also like to point out that, i know that social services are needed to protect those who need protecting, but wheres the common sense gone!

i agree that social services are essential, but there are cases where they are unsuccessful, wrong or just being heavy handed and thats some thing that im sure you would agree on.

My main gist of this thread was that this may be evidence of social engineering in britain in the name of diversity, not a bashing session on social services.
I have the utmost respect for that line of work for the good that it brings to people and society as a whole.

The daily mail is useful in that they do find the bad examples, i have used the daily mail as a tool and asset, it does not form my opinions, i prefer the telegraph and rense for my news fix.

so to recap im not bashing the social services, just tring to highlight the social engineering aspect i see, this is after all a conspiracy site.

Idiotic. If what they claim is true then the right action would be to support the family and not dismantle it. Help with home choirs and education etc. could go a long way. In the end it would probably come more cheaper too.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Not sure why the Daily Mail's being singled out, when virtually every other arm of the media and alternative news sources are featuring this case

The same child services who failed to save baby Peter (and numerous other publicised cases in the past year alone) have presumed to TAKE away a couple's child and informed the couple of this before the birth, resulting in this latest tragic development

Mildly intellectually impaired. What does that mean ? By whom was the young mother assessed ? Under what circumstances ? Using what criteria ? That's what we need to learn far more about, rather than be fobbed off with the CLAIM that the mother was 'not clever enough'

Your personal opinions and claimed experience aside, this couple have not abused a child, have they ? Is there any evidence they would abuse their child ?

This case sets a very dangerous precendent in the eyes of the world, particularly when a child is stolen from parents who very obviously cared for it BEFORE it was born and who've evidence their concern since the birth

As the poster above has stated, why not provide support to the parents instead of stealing their child ?

Seems clear the frequently useless and criminally neglectful child services (who are one step removed from the child-murders and other atrocities which have been permitted to occur on their watch) are intent more with demonstrating their capacity for meanness and bullying than genuine concern for the child in question OR its biological parents

And we most of us loathe bullies, particularly when the bully has regularly demonstrated its general incompetence

reply to post by PsykoOps


Agreed.
I used to work for social services and was under the impression that while you might counsel a couple with learning difficulties not to have a child, if it's a done deal, then you go ahead and support them. In such cases the welfare of the child could be monitored after all.
I'm wondering if it comes down to money ie support costs.
I would like to think there is something we are not being told. Otherwise it seems a draconian action. If we had to pass a test before we could produce children, there would be lots of people who would fail it.

reply to post by Dock9

Not sure why the Daily Mail's being singled out, when virtually every other arm of the media and alternative news sources are featuring this case

Refer to the OP...it's predicated on the Daily Mail article.

This case sets a very dangerous precendent in the eyes of the world, particularly when a child is stolen from parents who very obviously cared for it BEFORE it was born and who've evidence their concern since the birth

It isn't a precedent. It happens across the world and has done for decades. Generally speaking, the intention is to act in the child's best interests based on the circumstances of the parent/s. I'm not claiming this will always be the right thing to do. My feelings on it are complex and not black and white at all.

Seems clear the frequently useless and criminally neglectful child services (who are one step removed from the child-murders and other atrocities which have been permitted to occur on their watch) are intent more with demonstrating their capacity for meanness and bullying than genuine concern for the child in question OR its biological parents

With respect, your emotive language offers nothing constructive. Suggesting that children are removed from parents because of 'meanness and bullying' presumes institutional or occupational sadism. It's not the case in my experience. Do you have more to add?

Why do so many people believe that just having a pair bestows upon them an absolute, unbounded right to breed uncontrollably?

This reminds me of this girl that used to live in my neighborhood when I was growing up who was bi-polar and had her kid taken away when she was like 17. She'd leave the kid with people she barely knew while she disappeared for days, couldn't hold down a job, had a grade 8 education and was the most manipulative person I've ever met. When social services took her kid she went to the newspaper and managed to spin the story to make it look like she'd be victimized and they totally bought it and ran it. This girl could barely get herself out of bed and make herself macaroni, let alone raise another human being.

There's much more to these stories that isn't being told, it's all about selling outrage; don't buy it.

reply to post by unicorn1
I agree with much of that. It's too much to require tests before getting pregnant, but I sometimes wonder. Some mums and unwanted kids have terrible relationships. They get lost in a cycle of love, hate, forgiveness, love, hate, resentment. In my experience, it often doesn't matter how bad a parent is....deep down the child always just wants to be loved. It's a tragedy in the real sense of the word.

reply to post by Kandinsky


First, I believe if you review your earlier post, you'll discover it's you who was 'emotive'

Second, you have singled out the Daily Mail and those who refer to it in disparaging terms, when as you cannot fail to be aware, the entire world's media is featuring this story and struggling to cope with the disapproval evidenced within Comments sections. So the story is not fabricated by the Daily Mail and whether or not the OP used the Daily Mail as his/her source is immaterial: the entire world's media is featuring it

You claim the threat to remove an unborn child 'happens across the world and has been done for ages', followed by the removal of a newborn from its biological parents. Care to provide further information ? I'm not familiar with this practice 'happening around the world for ages' and if your claim were true, this case would not be receiving the worldwide attention it is ... would it ?

The final paragraph in your second post illustrates far better than anything anyone could cite re: child services and bullying, arrogance, etc. In fact, your first post was very aggressive too

the other cases seem a tad harsh, aswell the case of the children put up for adoption to a gay couple in scotland against the wishes of the mother, the grandparents (who are denied the right to adopt due to concerns of age and health) and the children themselves wo want to stay with their grandparents.
www.dailymail.co.uk...


Also a case where a couple had their children taken away after their g.p found micro fractrures in the childrens bones and alerted socials services who prmptly put them up for adoption, later it was found out the bone fractures were due to poor diet. social services recognised their mistake but refuse to hand the children back to to the parents.
www.dailymail.co.uk...

Remarkably enough, we have had an exactly similar situation in the Netherlands. The bottom line after a lawsuit and various reports, was that the parents were allowed to raise their child (after he had been taken away for months), but with the condition of supervision through various means. Above the cradle, for instance, the social service installed a camera that could turn 360 degrees; child protection keeping an eye on the parents as well as daily support by family members.

The baby's parent's weren't retarded, they were slightly weak gifted and perfectly capable of raising their child. All it required was some extra support.

[edit on 24-1-2010 by Mdv2]

Mdv and Hans Kammler ---- excellent contributions to this topic, imo

Child services have a much higher opinion of themselves, it appears, than their 'services' in fact warrant

Still hoping we'll learn how child services arrived at the conclusion the young mother in question was 'not clever enough' to raise her own child

It would be good for the public to see how child services arrives at its decisions

in order the public might in turn make a decision about child services, for which the public pays

And hope sanity will prevail in the case of the young couple in this instance

Have a feeling the public has had more than enough of the 'services' provided by 'child services'

reply to post by Dock9
Google is your search engine. Look at Sweden, Germany, Norway, Ireland, Australia, Holland, USA. Children have been removed from allegedly unsuitable parents for decades. I'm not taking a position on it... there's simply no precedent here.

I never implied the story was fabricated. The Daily Mail will condemn social services today for removing a child from a parent. Tomorrow they'll condemn them for not removing a child from a parent. There'll be more to this account than we are aware of.

Social Services exists because it's necessary. I'm not a fan in general, but what's the alternative? Daily Mail readers often have a solution...what's yours?

EDIT: Just checked out your profile. One thread and Daily Mail is your source.



[edit on 24-1-2010 by Kandinsky]

Well to me this seams about right! stupid people should have their children removed, and be forced to be sterilized. There are enough people in this world now and more stupids are not what we need, Look around you why do we not let cats and dogs just bread without controls?

Let's make a better world anyone with an IQ under 120 should go. Just think of a world without country music and the TV show COPS.

Social services cant do anything right these days. Ideally cases going from one extreme to another in terms of children being removed for no reason, and then children who are being neglected/abused getting ignored, wouldnt happen. But Id much rather have social services being overly cautious than having more baby p cases popping up.

I think the main issue here is the way social services & courts seem to drag their feet when it comes to cases. I dont think anyone here can comment on whether or not the girl is an unfit mother or not, especially based on reasons such as 'well she looks normal' & 'she was feeding the baby', there isnt much info apart from a statement that she has mild learning difficulties, so its a bit difficult to form an opinion on that.
But, if social services think that baby is at risk, then I cant fault them for taking action. However, the length of time in which these cases get dragged out is ridiculous. 3+ months might not seem much when it comes to other criminal cases, but when there's babies & little children involved then that length of time can have a huge effect on the parents and the child.

People need to bear in mind as well that only the extreme cases get reported. They rarely, if ever, mention the thousands of children social services have actually helped.