Exploration of why the bible forbids meditation.

This is a thread in which Borg X consults the rest of the ATS Borg on the subject of why the bible forbids meditation.

I went through a period of my life in which meditation was a daily practice it wasn't a particularly long period of time maybe three or four months after following my wife to sahaja yoga classes.

Sahaja yoga is Kundalini meditation and not exercise yoga, i practiced every day for an hour or longer if it felt right to.

My wife was a natural and became quite adept and able to work with others clearing their chakras of "blockages" and "catches".

With her help on the night of friday the 13th nov 1998 i managed to open my crown chakra, it feels absolutely amazing because your energetic metaphysical self extends through the top of your head as a bud, you can feel the stem at first rise from back of your skull then you feel/notice a bud move upwards from a position of being tucked downwards alongside the stem.

As it points upwards you feel it open and unfurl into all the petals, its a very very breathtaking and surreal experience, you can feel the bigger petals on the outside and the smaller tighter presence of the centre of the flower, the thought crosses your mind that there is a part of you no-one else can see and its a "non-human" form, a part of your soul, your energetic higher self expressed in the most fantastic and unexpected way.

This moment answered for me a lot of questions created no room for doubt about spirit and the afterlife, a presence of a higher spiritual force is sitting on you and you can feel it, guaranteed to put a smile on your face.

But years tick by and you consider your experience and what it means, This experience truly leaves me without a second of doubt as to a higher spiritual presence contained within, accessible to everyone, believe me when i say that i was no angel, if i can do it so can you if you haven't already.

This moment shows you in no uncertain terms that we are a spiritual metaphysical being with a soul and all the ramifications that come with that realisation.
And this is my quandry, why would the bible tell you not to meditate when meditation can give you evidence of the higher soul within you, proof that you are more than you seem to be.
Why doesn't the bible say the opposite and tell you to meditate because it gives you ability to destroy any doubt whatsoever as to what you really are and any doubts about soul and a higher spiritual force.

I also do not mind answering any questions you may have about the practice i used to achieve this enlightening moment, that is another thought i had, was this a true enlightenment or just another of the steps along the way.

We are all lotus flowers, how do you feel about that?..

reply to post by The X

why would the bible tell you not to meditate

Where does the bible tell you to not meditate?

Why doesn't the bible say the opposite and tell you to meditate

Joshua 1:8
Do not let this Book of the Law depart from your mouth; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful.

Psalm 1:2
But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night.

Psalm 4:4
Tremble, and do not sin; Meditate in your heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.

I don't think the bible forbids meditation...

I was raised in a conservative catholic family, and me and my mother went to christian orientated meditation centers.

They are basically the exact same kinds of meditations as any other, except you are to focus on christ's everlasting and immortal love.

I even remember a priest encouraging everyone to meditate as often as they pray: he said praying was our way of talking to god, and meditation was god's way of talking to us.

Once you get past all the conservatism of Christianity, and all the hell and no reincarnation aspect, its a pretty powerful religion with a powerful meaning.

I don't consider myself a ture christian however, because I believe in reincarnation, and I also believe that jesus's story and teachings have been grossly warped and twisted throughout the years to suit the church's need for power and control.

I also think most of the old testament is a big load of hogwash.

No where does The Bible say not to meditate. There are monks, priests, nuns who spend their entire lives in prayer and seclusion. In fact, the term "in prayer" is merely Christianity's form of meditation.

reply to post by The X

We are all lotus flowers, how do you feel about that?..

That kind of explains my fascination with lotus flowers recently
Because the lotus flower sprouts from a seed in the bottom of a mucky stagnant pond, and has the ability to rise above the surface of the water to reveal all it's beauty and splendor, only to retract back under the surface at night...
It symbolizes the human ability to rise above what you were born into, from the scum of the earth (so to speak), no matter where you come from, you can rise above that and be what you are destined to be.

I would also like to see the verse in the bible where it tells you that... I do believe you though. I know a lot of Christians who are against meditation or any spiritual involvement with yourself, I think in their mind, you should believe that God is the divine, and you are merely mortal. Therefore you may not see yourself as a highly evolved spiritual being, because you are putting yourself 'up there' with God.

The only time I have heard of a 'warning' when it come to meditation (transcendental) was from Fr. Malachi Martin on a Coast to Coast am interview. He made people aware of the fact that people are susceptible to 'demonic possession' due to the emptying of the mind.

There are many people that warn of the dangers of Kundalini as this may also fall into that catagory.

For the really experienced meditator a basic difference between abramic (christian etc) and e.g. buddhistic meditation will eventually emerge.

Christians (etc) 'strive', i.e. are dynamic, actively searching for some kind of divine state. Jacob's ladder.

Buddhists try to acchieve a non-dynamic state as an aim, which can be confusing for westerners, as it leads to paradoxes such as 'doing' by 'non-doing'.

On the side: I'm personally wary of any crown-chakra opening aspirations. Experience shows, that this can lead to rather advanced confusion, especially in individuals with a pronounced christian background.
The experience of deep, inner energies coupled with a belief-system not adapted to this is playing with fire.

Make sure you know exactly, what you 'believe' in (if anything) and use methods suitable to this. The new-age mish-mash of taking little here and little there without any understanding whatsoever is a catastrophe.

It's not to get a 'kick', you start on meditation.

Im sure i remember it from the verses where the bible tells you not to suffer witches and scryers among you and takers of signs, it might have been something particular to the version/print my parents had.

But im glad to see its not in all versions, also the type of meditations we are talking about are different.
To meditate on a bible verse is to spend time quietly looking for the deeper unobvious meaning it may possibly have, whereas the type of meditation i was doing was kundalini meditation, this has been associated with raising the serpent energy through the chakras.
The snake going from the base of the spine to the crown chakra.

Bogomil i had no idea it was possible until it happened, i personally do not have any unaddressed misgivings about the experience, i feel very lucky to have had the realisation and do not have any conflicts with my beliefs in fact it reinforced considerably my faith in the "oneness" of everything.
I have taken a Gnostic view with my faith and do not believe anything i have not known myself as being true as being the truth, this is why i feel so fortunate in having the experience.
I had lots of different psychic events/episodes before this and led life with a sort of hesitant expectation of the next, it still happens today even though i self medicate to keep it under some sort of control as it has affected me quite badly, i have never found a way of controlling the strengh of the events effectively, for a period of about two years from 16-18 i was a total mess with one event in particular causing me very much harm and upset.

jinx im glad you find a little synchronicity with my experience


Which came first the metaphysical flower or the flower?.


[edit on 23-1-2010 by The X]

With her help on the night of friday the 13th nov 1998 i managed to open my crown chakra, it feels absolutely amazing because your energetic metaphysical self extends through the top of your head as a bud, you can feel the stem at first rise from back of your skull then you feel/notice a bud move upwards from a position of being tucked downwards alongside the stem.

As it points upwards you feel it open and unfurl into all the petals, its a very very breathtaking and surreal experience, you can feel the bigger petals on the outside and the smaller tighter presence of the centre of the flower, the thought crosses your mind that there is a part of you no-one else can see and its a "non-human" form, a part of your soul, your energetic higher self expressed in the most fantastic and unexpected way.

Interested. You should point me in the direction of more information. I am interested to see that in myself. If you knew me in real life you would laugh at hearing that because I am as far from a spiritual/religious/anything kind of guy. I am a person of science and facts. You know the type. I am very intrigued though!

reply to post by A-E-I-Owned-You



This is probably the best site for someone not familiar with Kundalini Meditation, you may or may not get results as quickly as i did but whatever your experience to begin with stick with it it takes time to notice the subtle energies of your body especially if you are not familiar with how they "feel".

Kundalini Meditation

Sensible Scientific Kundalini

[edit on 23-1-2010 by The X]

reply to post by The X


Can you tell us exactly where it is in your parent's bible? I think you must be mistaken but if you can tell us where it says that so that we can verify it for ourselves, then please do so. Otherwise your thread title is completely misleading.

Originally posted by The X
reply to post by A-E-I-Owned-You

 

This is probably the best site for someone not familiar with Kundalini Meditation, you may or may not get results as quickly as i did but whatever your experience to begin with stick with it it takes time to notice the subtle energies of your body especially if you are not familiar with how they "feel".

Kundalini Meditation

Interesting. I will certainly look at it in the morning as it is time for bed for me. I appreciate you sharing that though and I will probably update you on my research later, though I might forget who showed me in a few weeks.

reply to post by The X

i remember it from the verses where the bible tells you not
to suffer witches and scryers among you and takers of signs

Here is a keyword search for all instances of the word "meditate" in the bible.
Here is a keyword search for all instances of the word "meditation" in the bible.

Feel free to look through them, scan through the above search for the nineteen different translations they offer, and let me know which one tells you to not meditate.

it might have been something particular to the version/print my parents had.

...or perhaps...particular to the interpretation offered by your parents?

the type of meditations we are talking about are different.

the type of meditation i was doing was kundalini

Oh, of course. Your meditation is different.

But that doesn't change the fact that the claim you're making appears to be false.

[edit on 23-1-2010 by LordBucket]

reply to post by Blueracer


Its Deuteronomy 18:9

reply to post by LordBucket


Go find someone else to rant at, i make not one false claim in anything i have written and yes there are differences in the types of meditation we are discussing.

Go and tell your pastor your raising the serpent energy within, im sure he will have the #s and giggles and will then tell you himself the difference between the meaning of Meditation in the bible and Kundalini Meditation.

The difference if you could be bothered to look at the websites i linked to would be plainly obvious.

What is Kundalini?

Kundalini is the formative, biological Life Force energy dormant in our bodies. Formative in the sense that it creates our very shape and substance in the womb, dormant because it becomes inactive at the moment of birth. Because most people don’t realize that the Kundalini~Life Force resides within them, most people will never reactivate it.

Tell me how that relates to the christian practice of meditating on a verse? or gods law?.
you see different.






[edit on 23-1-2010 by The X]

[edit on 23-1-2010 by The X]

[edit on 23-1-2010 by The X]

why would the bible tell you not to meditate when meditation can give you evidence of the higher soul within you, proof that you are more than you seem to be.

Why doesn't the bible say the opposite and tell you to meditate because it gives you ability to destroy any doubt whatsoever as to what you really are and any doubts about soul and a higher spiritual force.

IMO: All religions "holy books" were instituted to keep humanity at the "physical" level.

Excellent video below with Maxwell Jordon, titled, "Toxic Religion" explaining where many religious ideas come from. The guy is very well researched.

video.google.com...#

The question everyone should be asking is who really designed all these "religions"?

Who are the "controllers"?

If the OP wants to research, read any of David Icke's books, William Bramley's "The Gods of Eden" and Stewart Swedlow's "Blue Blood, True Blood".

Humans were never meant to be "religious" we were meant to be spiritual.

We are all deeptly connected, like multiple cells making up the one body we call "God".

RELIGION

If you wish to control a mass population, you have to disconnect them from the true knowledge of who they are and their own infinite potential to manifest their own destiny and control their own lives. You have to persuade them that they are insignificant and powerless so they will live their lives in accordance with that.

This is where religion has been one of the most effective weapons of the Illuminati and the reptilian bloodlines. It fills people with fear of a judgmental God and tells them that unless they believe that the "truth" of all that is can be found in one book or belief system, they are going to hell or will experience other extremely unpleasant consequences.

Different religions have also been wonderful vehicles for dividing and ruling the people through arrogant, self-righteous, inter-religious conflict. The reptilians created the religions for this reason and the key players within them do not even begin to believe the nonsense they parrot to their followers. They just want the population to believe it, so they will be easy to control. This is why you find so many famous "Christian" evangelists, for example, are actually Satanists. Their "Christianity" is just a smokescreen.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Meditation brings one closer to the reality that we are a consciousness having a physical experience.

At one point we were all "one" and then we splintered to have this physical experience

Further along "we" lost the memory of being "one"

That is the yearning all humans have within them. The wanting to go back to the one source some call God.

Meditation brings us closer to "the one source".

All religions (IMO) were meant to control and estrangled our species from the one source.



[edit on 23-1-2010 by ofhumandescent]

reply to post by The X

Go and tell your pastor your raising the serpent energy within

Can't do that. I don't have one. I'm not a christian.

However, thank you for very nicely demonstrating the point I was trying to make. Yes, speaking to a christian of awakening the coiled serpent within you would most likely be misinterpreted, misunderstood...mischaracterized as evil with no deeper understanding.

Isn't that what you have done with christianity? Misunderstood it? Mischaracterized it?

1998 i managed to open my crown chakra

Forgive me, but I think if you had opened it more recently...if you had kept it open and centered all this time, we would not be having this conversation now.

What is Kundalini?

Kundalini is

Yes. This is what you really want to talk about isn't it? Not christianity at all.

May I offer you the suggestion that if you create and title a thread speaking about kundalini instead of against christianity, you may find a more receptive audience?

Shakti listens very precisely to your intent.

Even when it is impure.



[edit on 23-1-2010 by LordBucket]

My 76 years old mother is total agnostic. But she is singing at catholic chorus. She is practicing hatha yoga for 40 years. Any well done exercise is meditation. Bach and Beethoven did not created "christian" music, but spiritual music. Institutional form of Christianity may produce ban on meditation, but in my eyes is meditation base of spirituality - link to God. Only bad priests ban meditation. There are dangers on the way for sure but meditation is core of true Christianity.

Its Deuteronomy 18:9

Deuteronomy 18:9 and following

When you come into the land which the Lord, your God, is giving you, you shall not learn to imitate the abominations of the peoples there. Let there not be found among you anyone who immolates his son or daughter in the fire, nor a fortune-teller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner,
or caster of spells, nor one who consults ghosts and spirits or seeks oracles from the dead.
Anyone who does such things is an abomination to the Lord, and because of such abominations the Lord, your God, is driving these nations out of your way. You, however, must be altogether sincere toward the Lord, your God.

Nothing about meditation.

Eastern Orthodox practice includes using the Jesus prayer (searchable) both as a mantra and also as a component of mindfulness meditation during life activities. It is alleged that the Western Rosary is a parallel practice. Not so sure about that, although you can find Western claims that the Rosary is a breath control exercise. It does, fairly obviously, encourage a prolonged rhythm to make the recitations aloud. So, maybe there is something to that.

Since after all,

Any well done exercise is meditation.

Word.

It does not say you can not meditate, but you are not supposed to use mantras and such to put yourself into trancelike state, mainly for the purpose of communicating with the dead or spirit world:

Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Peep and Mutter here basically means chanting to make oneself enter a trance. Same here:

Isa 29:4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.