Patriot missile deployment against Russia, says Lavrov

Patriot missile deployment against Russia, says Lavrov

www.thenews.pl

Poland is giving the impression that it is strengthening its defences directly against Russia, says Moscow’s foreign minister Sergei Lavrov.

The comment comes after reports this week that Poland is to situate US Patriot missiles 100 kilometers from the border with Kaliningrad, Russia. The Kremlin is seeking full information on the announcement, said the Russian foreign minister.

Poland defence minister, Bogdan Klich has denied there is anything significant about the placing of the Patriot

(visit the link for the full news article)

This was originally Bush's deal with missile interceptors and patriot batteries. Whilst Obama scrapped the interceptors, the Patriots with 100 US troops is still part of the deal. Was Obama just trying to please both the Poles and Russian's? This deployment 100km from Kaliningrad might be Poland's way of saying to the US - thanks for messing us around, and ta for the missile batteries btw!

rt.com...

The Patriot unit will be manned by some 100 US soldiers, will comprise up to eight missile launchers and is expected to be operational in either March or April.

Poland’s announcement to install US Patriot missiles comes on the heels of a “major revision,” courtesy of US President Barack Obama, to US missile defense plans in Europe. Although precious little information has been made available about the new system, it is believed to entail the deployment of US cruisers and destroyers equipped with sophisticated Aegis radars and antimissile interceptors in the eastern Mediterranean and North Sea.

www.tribunemagazine.co.uk...

The Russian Prime Minister argued that the construction by Washington of an “umbrella” against “offensive strike systems” – a reference to Russia’s strategic deterrent – would break the nuclear balance the two superpowers with the result that the Americans “will do whatever they want and grow more aggressive”.

www.thenews.pl
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 22-1-2010 by john124]

Poland is saying that they placed it there because the infrastructure was made for this...

There was also conflicting reports on Russia strengthening their Baltic fleet in response...

Russia denies fleet boost over US Poland missile plan

And according to this report, those patriots missiles are not at 100 km from Kaliningrad, they are at 60 km (35 miles)..

Russia could certainly follow up with appropriate measures in Kaliningrad. It is not likely that there will be any changes to the Baltic Fleet, but the ground forces there could field the new Iskander missile systems, or something similar (not necessarily with nuclear warheads). This is still far from definite however.

Personally I thought the Anti-Ballistic Missile shield in Poland was a dumb innitiative with drove a wedge between Russia-US relations. The Patriot missiles however do not play as significant strategic role as far as nuclear balance goes, although they could still be a concern to Russia. Why does Poland need them? My guess is that it isn't for realistic defense purposes, but rather for political and perhaps financial - who knows what sorts of concessions Poland will get for this from the US.

What remains in question, is if the US will continue to pursue the idea of stationing radar installation in Eastern Europe as well. Alternatively it could take up Russia's offer (assuming it's still on the table) to use its advanced radars in Azerbaijan.

Either way it is sad to see that Poland is still playing childish political games when it comes to Russia. Everyone who is sane knows well enough that Russia is not any kind of a threat to Poland (NATO member). But Poland still uses every opportunity to trash whatever relations there are left between the two countries.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by maloy]

Originally posted by maloy
Everyone who is sane knows well enough that Russia is not any kind of a threat to Poland (NATO member). But Poland still uses every opportunity to trash whatever relations there are left between the two countries.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by maloy]

Apyr xopomero AHR. R Bepio yto Bbl confused BoHocatoe Yxo
(Good day friend. I believe that you are a confused hairy ear.)
Did not the peaceful country of Russia invade the sovereign nation of Georgia?
Did not Russia point their tank guns towards the basements of the devastated Georgian homes, killing the survivors?
You do not have to review this link below. You already know the answer; it’s for the other readers.
Russia has provoked outrage in Poland by simulating an air and sea attack on the country during military exercises.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Originally posted by Violater1
(Good day friend. I believe that you are a confused hairy ear.)

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Originally posted by Violater1
Did not the peaceful country of Russia invade the sovereign nation of Georgia?

No it did not. Georgia staged a suprise artillery and tank attack on UN-sanctioned peacekeepers and Ossetian civilians in a breakaway region of South Ossetia. Russia pushed the Georgia back from South Ossetia, and restored status quo.

It helps when you know what you are talking about before you start talking.

Originally posted by Violater1
Did not Russia point their tank guns towards the basements of the devastated Georgian homes, killing the survivors?

No. I followed the whole August War and I have not heard of any incident like what you describe. Please list sources if you want to be taken seriously. Also I think you might have Russia and Georgia confused.

Originally posted by Violater1
Russia has provoked outrage in Poland by simulating an air and sea attack on the country during military exercises.

Poland is a member of NATO, an alliance that is organized against Russia. It is also the closest large NATO member to Russia. Thus it makes sense from a military and strategic standpoint that Russia hold exercises with NATO members like Poland in mind. US and NATO members no doubt hold similar exercises as well, even if the scenario is a highly unlikely one. Why this would cause outrage in Poland I have no idea - but I would guess that Polish nationalist politicians would stand to gain from it.

This is certainly an interesting game in international chess they are playing
I wish someone would follow up with a move soon.

reply to post by john124


This is stupid move by USA. Russia will never let it go easily. Last time USA & Israel armed Russia's neighbour there was 6 day Russia-Georgia war last year, during which Russia seized all military equipment supplied to Georgia and destroyed the remaining.

I don't get it why USA is provoking Russia again and again.

How is a defensive missile system placed 100km inside Poland's border a threat to Russia?

Hey if Iran and North Korea can have nukes, shouldn't Poland be allowed Patriots? Hell shouldn't Poland be allowed to have nukes if they want them?

Originally posted by JIMC5499
How is a defensive missile system placed 100km inside Poland's border a threat to Russia?

A missile system meant to at least partial neutralize or counter the opposing side's nuclear capabilities can offset the nuclear power balance and deterrence factor. This is especially true if the system is placed near Russia's borders and not on US territory. The anti-ballistic missile shield could technically be viewed as part of a country's nuclear strategy (both defensive and offensive), which enables improved survivability after staging a first strike.

And even though this system is to be placed in Poland, it will be operated and monitored by the US. Of course the patriot missiles in question now are less capable than the ABM system proposed earlier, but to some extent all this still holds true.

Read up on the facts and reasons behind the old Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty:

en.wikipedia.org...

It was seen by many in the West as a key piece in nuclear arms control, being an implicit recognition of the need to protect the nuclear balance by ensuring neither side could hope to reduce the effects of retaliation to acceptable levels.

For many years the ABM Treaty was, in the West, considered one of the landmarks in arms limitations. It was perceived as requiring two enemies to agree not to deploy a potentially useful weapon, deliberately to maintain the balance of power and as such, was also taken as confirmation of the Soviet adherence to the MAD doctrine.

Originally posted by JIMC5499
Hey if Iran and North Korea can have nukes, shouldn't Poland be allowed Patriots? Hell shouldn't Poland be allowed to have nukes if they want them?

Who said Poland is not allowed to have the missiles? It most certainly is. The issue here is not a legal matter of whether it is allowed to have them - but a political matter of why it needs them, and what will the cost of this be in terms of relations with Russia. Russia by same measure is allowed to have nuclear tactical missiles in Kaliningrad near Poland's border.

And the issue wouldn't be as debated if it were Poland's own missiles. But the installations in question will be operated by the US, which means US military presence in Eastern Europe will increase substantially. They are also likely to be of more defensive use to the US than Poland or Europe.

Originally posted by JIMC5499
How is a defensive missile system placed 100km inside Poland's border a threat to Russia?

Hey if Iran and North Korea can have nukes, shouldn't Poland be allowed Patriots? Hell shouldn't Poland be allowed to have nukes if they want them?

thats a typical US view towards europe, you americans forget your history so quickly. You critisise Russia for not being happy with American moves, but remember, Washington wasnt impressed when Russia tried to set up nuclear weapons in Cuba, so leave all the hypocrsy, it doesnt belong here.

The whitehouse has been provoking Russia for years, and it wont be long till Moscow bites back. how would Obama react if russia gave 30 nuclear missiles to Venezuala?

reply to post by la2


How have I forgotten my history? The missiles in Cuba were offensive weapons not defensive.

I agree with JimC on this one, during the Cuban Missile Crisis the USSR had placed first strike weapons in Cuba that were capable of hitting anywhere in the US all the way to Seattle Washington, within 5 Minutes. The whole argument in the UN over the incident hinged on the fact that the USSR was denying the presence of offensive weaponry, and stated only the deployment of Defensive weapons. Adlai Stevenson made fools out of the Russians in the UN by asking if there were offensive weapons in Cuba, then after the Russians denied it, pulling out surveillance photos and showing exactly what they had placed there.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a9787d6885e4.jpg[/atsimg]
This was a big part of getting the world to back our quarantine, and ending the crisis.

That is hardly the same thing as us placing some antiquated, short range, air defense missiles in Poland. As a matter of fact the Russians were allowed to place similar defensive weapons in Cuba.

maloy
You know, they right, they always right. And no one will worry if Russia put a couple of Hipower radar-ships (radar only) near the coast of USA, just for fun.

Привет, к стати. Интересный сайт тут как я погляжу. Нифига о нас не знают, зато учат как в носу ковыряться. А у тебя ответы грамотные и английский на уровне. Молодец, что вставляешь тут пару строк за родину.

reply to post by VitAl2013


Be my guest. There's a bunch of fast attack submarines on the East Coast with very little to do right now. A little realistic training might be appriciated. Ask real nice and they might be able to arrange a port visit for some liberty. I ran into some Russian sailors in Sicily in 1986. Nice guys, little quiet, drank like fish though. Took me two weeks to do the paperwork on that little run in.

uh why did russia put missiles in cuba? Oh yea bc we put missles in turkey just as close to russian cities first. I guess I shouldnt say "we" bc I have nothing in common with aristocracy of corporate/financial/milt. idustrial elite who decide the military policies of the nation I reside in. Come on stop this imaginary history. The cold war was never real. We built the soviets. American aid propped up the soviet union throughout the cold war. Read Gary allen none dare call it a conspiracy. Our milit. industry needed an enemy, and our government needed a reason to solidify control. We are more sovietized that soviet union ever was. Back to the topic. We have been trying to gain first strike nuke capability on russia for years. Georgia was about that, and so is this. We wanna hit them first and prevent the retailation. American schooling and generations of propaghanda have created these myths about the cold war that are just that myths. No basis in reality.