US sheriff says mom forced son to kill pet hamster

"Virus called human"?!? Seriously?

What are you, a panda? A hippo?

I still will never get how some people can be so specist! What did the human species ever do to hurt you?!? (Oh, aside from spawn you).

It was a life... so was my breakfast burrito.

Originally posted by theyreadmymind

Originally posted by suicydking

Originally posted by anotherdad
reply to post by ZombieJesus

 

Agree but my point is why were the police involved and the de escallation of what is a crime. Your point is more than valid and as of right now amy example is not comparable, but if tptb are involved in this! where does it stop? That's my concern.

The police are involved because she broke the law. It's their job to get involved when people break the law. Forcing a child to brutally kill a beloved pet as punishment is child abuse, as well as animal cruelty.

As long as you are using the Slippery Slope logical fallacy to prove your argument, let's turn it around. What if the mother was not arrested for committing child abuse? Where does it stop? Soon, people will be able to abuse their kids all willy-nilly, with the police powerless to stop them!

Seriously. If you think that forcing a kid to eat vegetables is the same as forcing a kid to kill an animal with a hammer, why don't you just start making your kids brutally kill small animals as punishment for not eating broccoli? I bet it would be the end of two hour dinner sessions, one way or another.

You may as well argue that the police's ability to write traffic tickets will mean that it will be illegal to drive soon. This woman is a criminal, and all parties that got involved seem to have done their job properly. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a history of mental abuse in that house, and an investigation should be done to see what kind of help the kid needs.

I wonder why it's not considered "animal abuse" to torture animals in slaughter houses. Have you ever seen how they treat those animals? That's abuse! I notice how you used "broccoli" and "vegetables" as examples. But would it be child abuse if a mother forced her son or daughter to eat "steak" against their will, if say, the child wanted to be vegan at an earlier age? Or does it have to be a beloved pet? What if they lived on a farm? Would it be child abuse if the mother forced the child to slaughter his own cow for meat? What if it was with a hammer? At what point does it become animal abuse or child abuse? What if the child loved "all animals"? Would that fall under child abuse if they had to eat an animal they loved? I don't know exactly where I'm going with this. I have more questions than I do anwers.

I used broccoli & vegetables because anotherdad claimed that keeping his kids at the table until they finish the veggies was pretty much the same as what this mother did.

As for the other questions, well, that's a tough one. There are no black & white answers to most moral questions.

Here's a tip though, if what you are doing is illegal, and you are doing it with the specific intent to mentally traumatize your child(as punishment in this case), then that's abuse.

reply to post by YourPopRock


Yep Humans are the biggest mistake nature ever did and it's paying for it ever since. How many plant/animal species humans have pushed to the brink of extinction? How much deforestation? How we torture animals day by day in most gruesome ways? Humans only spread and destroy everything around us, that is a virus.

To save millions of other species if 1 species should be eradicated it should be humans, and it would be worth it.

Originally posted by suicydking

Originally posted by theyreadmymind

Originally posted by suicydking

Originally posted by anotherdad
reply to post by ZombieJesus

 

I used broccoli & vegetables because anotherdad claimed that keeping his kids at the table until they finish the veggies was pretty much the same as what this mother did.

As for the other questions, well, that's a tough one. There are no black & white answers to most moral questions.

Here's a tip though, if what you are doing is illegal, and you are doing it with the specific intent to mentally traumatize your child(as punishment in this case), then that's abuse.

1. It wasn't veggies, that was implied. It was rice and ? but eat what you take.
2. If there are no black and white answers then maybe you would suggest tptb create them?
3. What this lady did was horrible but do you know her? if not how do you know her intents were to "mentally traumatize" the child. She may very well be a great person who made a horrible decision.

FLAME ALERT!

So, you'all believe a 12 year old who can't get out of his own way in
school? He probably abused the hamster by forgetting to feed it. He likely
terrorized it by playing with like a stuffed toy. The mother puts it out of its
misery to punish him. Big Deal!

If you eat animals, shut up. Don't pull the "attachment" line either. Don't
you think sheep and cows are attached to their lives?

BTW, I'm not a PETA type. I don't oppose using animals for food. I own
chickens and just might make soup out of that excess rooster one of these
days. But, I don't eat them on any more than an occasional basis.
Western society is completely insane on the topic of animals. Probably too
many cartoon personifications in place of your so called education. Grow
up, they aren't little hairy people.

Now Georgia will pay thousands of dollars in prosecution and jail costs
because she is too poor to raise bail. The judge says Ooh, what a horrible
crime, lets set bail really high. While in jail, she'll lose her job, her car and
end up homeless with a felony record. Now Family Services is involved.
The little bastard will get to talk to a therapist about his stupid little life at
your expense. All because a sorry little rodent, that in his home country
would be just another agricultural pest is given the right of personhood.

Animal Rightist's think that government should have a monopoly on
euthenizing animals because a few people are cruel. Which is worse?
Giving an excess puppy a quick wack on the head or taking it to a shelter,
putting it with hundreds of other scared, dirty, noisy dogs, then when it
has languished for a long time, stab it with a needle, while
strangers hold it?

My mother, who loved animals, but grew up in an entirely different culture,
would have been given a hundred years in jail if the do gooders only knew.

reply to post by December_Rain


That has to be the single silliest thing I have seen on here in a long time (and this IS ats afterall... the internet's home for silly things).

For someone who thinks all humans need to die off, I don't see you taking any initiative and sucking on the tailpipe of your car...

I am a little concerned with your inconsistency. You stated that "it is a life". Isn't a human being a life as well too?

I guess you are probably thrilled with the results of the earthquake in Haiti. Did all those little boy and girl viruses get just what they deserved in your opinion?

If the mother forced the kid to kill an animal, what else is she forcing him to do that isn't known yet? Besides the senseless, torturous way the animal died, the mother is mentally abusing her kid. Abuse is abuse and an investigation into claims of abuse might save one kids life. Maybe this lady has an older son who's punishment someday might be to kill his younger brother with a hammer. Then what?

I would hate to see what happened if he had dropped out of high school.

reply to post by UMayBRite!


Good I was hoping she be snuffed out in a similar manner but if she suffer her entire life that's good enough for me.

Secondly, I am a non-veg myself but I know the difference between torture and killing for need.

Message to ATS on this thread from fellow species



[edit on 22-1-2010 by December_Rain]

Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by UMayBRite!

 

Good I was hoping she be snuffed out in a similar manner but if she suffer her entire life that's good enough for me.

Secondly, I am a non-veg myself but I know the difference between torture and killing for need.

Last message to ATS on this thread from fellow species

Ahh... non-veg? Then my concerns about your inconsistencies are correct! Afterall, it is a life (and many other magical quotes from your earlier posts).

reply to post by YourPopRock


I would have taken the initiative if I had a way to eradicate entire human species. As long as I live I still have hope of finding that way and in the mean time I can perhaps repay those torturers the same way.

anotherdad, first let me apologize for my discrepancy.

On to your second point. If we do not allow our elected legislators to create the laws which govern our society, the alternative would be anarchy. If you have a problem with laws, then perhaps someplace more libertarian, like Somalia, may appeal to you.

Obviously we can't get it right 100% of the time, but this is a clear case of abuse.

Which leads to your third point. If the mother's intent was not to traumatize the child, then it wouldn't really have been punishment. Not to draw a line from trauma to punishment, but if she thought the kid wouldn't be upset by the act, she wouldn't have had him do it.

The method she chose to punish the child is illegal. Aside from that, this is something that could have a lasting negative mental impact on him. That's abuse & mental trauma.

As for UMayBRite, we'll have to let the courts decide. As for now, there are allegations of abuse and they should be investigated.

Also, I would like to point out the difference between killing for sustenance and killing for cruelty. If you don't know the difference, I worry about you.

Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by YourPopRock

 

I would have taken the initiative if I had a way to eradicate entire human species. As long as I live I still have hope of finding that way and in the mean time I can perhaps repay those torturers the same way.

But if your theory is sound, you are a portion of the problem as long as you live!

So tell me, what did the jury say at the end of her trial for this animal abuse? Oh wait... there hasn't been one yet!

But in your fascist ideal society, you can just dole out punishments as you see fit based on accusations of animal cruelty that make you feel bad...

Hope you don't start to blame it on the Jews... we have seen what fascists have done when they didn't like them in the past.

Oh wait, that is good though right? Just a great start on eradicating those pesky humans... Your ideology is really twisted and sick.

reply to post by YourPopRock


I am confused how the Jews discussion came in this topic? Seems you are quiet obsessed with Jews whoever they are but try not to go off topic okay. Anyway, it may sound twisted to you but it doesn't mean it is not correct. You see when I talk about eradication of human virus I don't mean a nuclear war (since it will destroy the environment) but something that only humans gets eradicated and no effect to nature or animals.

For those of you stating that the child should be taken away i have a few questions.

First off do you ever stop to consider where the children are being taken? Or does it not matter because we know that taking a child away from their parents is one of the worst punishments we can inflict on a parent. Maybe this women deserves such a punishment but what about the child?

Second off. According to the article the women is being charged with animal cruelty, child cruelty, and battery. I would assume the child is being taken away due to the child cruelty charge.

Here is my concern on this one. There are a lot of families in this country that raise their children on a farm. The children grow up learning how to slaughter animals. It needs to be made clear that the parents in this country that wish to teach their children self sufficiency and how to survive off the land aren't at risk for losing their children as well.

We need to make sure we are not setting a precedent where teaching a child how to live off the land is grounds for removal.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by harvib]

Oh by the way... before you all go on thinking how horrible it is that a hamster was killed, please try to remember this:



Don't let history repeat itself. Stop the hamsters NOW!!!

You people really believe the child would be better off being taken from his home? If so you have know clue what goes on once a child is put in foster care.
First they will interrogate the child as if he were an adult, emotionally upsetting us but that ain't nothing compared to whats to come, he'll be place in a temporary foster home and shortly after moved to a new one. They will label him as depressed or some other mental illness from the incident and dope him op on pharmaceuticals. So far he has escaped being raped but not for long, he is quickly moved to a new foster home where it happens. Of course social workers never bother to check in or follow up on theses claims it will happen until he is moved to his new foster home. (Yes statistics prove a child is 11 times more likely to be killed in foster care than any other cause and far more likely to be abused and even more likely to be sexually assaulted.) The child cries to go home and acts out so they dope him up even more. After jumping from foster home to foster home for the rest of his child hood he ages out and left on a street corner with no life skills no home no job not a clue how to survive. Hungry and suffering serious withdrawals from all the psych meds he was on and no way to refill his scripts he turns to a life of crime.
This is the life of 2 out of every 3 foster children.
Still think he is better off?

Originally posted by AmericanDaughter
NOT a good thing to do for sure
but putting her in jail is worse
what tha! charged with battery!?
people do bad things to people and don't end up in jail!
rediculous ...

Umm, ok, psychologically torturing your child is not a "bad thing?"


How do you think that little kid felt having to kill something he loved? How would YOU feel if someone made you kill one of your children because you got bad grades?

I know the hamster is not a human child, so dont even go there, but to a child who loves a pet, it is a similar feeling of unconditional love, and responsibility for its well being.

The mother in this case should not only go to jail, she should have her children taken away until she gets a psych eval and some training in not being evil.

Sheesh. I cant believe people would defend her for doing something so horribly cruel to her own child. Let alone the poor hamster.

Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by YourPopRock

 

I am confused how the Jews discussion came in this topic? Seems you are quiet obsessed with Jews whoever they are but try not to go off topic okay. Anyway, it may sound twisted to you but it doesn't mean it is not correct. You see when I talk about eradication of human virus I don't mean a nuclear war (since it will destroy the environment) but something that only humans gets eradicated and no effect to nature or animals.

Jews came into it because according to your Final Solution to kill off all the humans what happened to the Jewish people at the hands of Hitler and his Nazis fits nicely into your plan.

So, how have you been celebrating the deaths of all of those people in Haiti? That seems like it would make you happy as well...

Originally posted by calstorm
You people really believe the child would be better off being taken from his home? If so you have know clue what goes on once a child is put in foster care.

I spent most of my childhood in foster care. And it does suck, no question. But I also had a crazy mom, and the damage that she did to me by far outweighs the damage done to me by the foster care system.
'
Crazy psychologically abusive people should not have custody of children. Period. We do need to clean up the foster care system. But it is more damaging to be tortured by someone you love than to be mistreated by a stranger.

Edit to add; Neither I nor any of the foster children I knew were forced to take psych meds. Of course that was before the whole ADD diagnosis became all the rage.




[edit on 22-1-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]