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Scientific evidence proves life after death?

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posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by drew hempel
 


Whatever, your Sheep Death may indeed work orally, but then it's due to what I explained. That it contains the other inactive ingredient needed in order to digest '___' through eating it. If this is indeed is the facts of the case, it's no wonder they call it Sheep Death, for sheep, basing their diet on grass alone, would go ballistic, since all the '___' from the grass would turn into pure '___', and a few scenes from Lemmings come to mind here.... Besides, let's try to stick to the subject. We both agree on the facts involved, that '___' gives -- in itself -- an effect similar and often identical to what NDE reports discribe. So why are you all over the place on this? '___' is one of the most common alcaloids found in nature. And like I said regular lawn grass works fine for extracting the active compounds. However, in order to make it work, you need the substance I don't know much about. You could actually get high smoking vast ammounts of grass from off your lawn, but in order to make it potent enough to not die from exhaustion (pun intended) you must synthesise it and bring in the magic ingredient....

[edit on 23/1/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]




posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 05:34 PM
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Umm if you read the quotes I posted -- again the '___' levels are VERY LOW in most grass -- so smoking lawn grass ain't going to do nada -- even if you use a MAOI -- which inhibits the breakdown of the '___'.

So the question is about whether '___' is connected to some after-death spiritual state or not? As I've stated, since I've done '___', you experience the "tunnel" that is seen for OBEs and NDEs. There is a vortex of light -- it's a rainbow vortex.

It's electrochemical energy -- so it's not just a chemical -- it activates the creation of light. Similarly magnesium is a photoreceptor and some other chemicals are "psychotropics" which effect the electromagnetic properties of consciousness.

That's why NDEs are studied by anesthesia experts. There is a TRANSDUCTION between electromagnetic energy and electrochemical.

So spirit is electromagnetic and the ether energy is electrochemical.

In fact Robert Bruce makes this distinction as well when discussing OBEs.

There's something else though -- "pure consciousness" which creates the vortex of light -- it's formless and more like mathematics. It's logical inference, an abstract eternal process through complementary opposites.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 




[edit on 23-1-2010 by drew hempel]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by drew hempel
Umm if you read the quotes I posted -- again the '___' levels are VERY LOW in most grass -- so smoking lawn grass ain't going to do nada -- even if you use a MAOI -- which inhibits the breakdown of the '___'.


I read your quotes alright, and if you'd read anything I wrote, you'd read that the MAOI would have no effect to '___' when smoked, whatsoever, only if digested, since the maoi keeps certain enzymes busy while the '___' is moving through the stomach and into the guts. There are no known plants with enough '___' in it allowing it to be smoked in normal manner and produce the high. I know only two different natural ways to obtain any kind of high with '___', and they are both ancient South American shaman techniques. One is to eat potent grass together with their chosen MAOI. Then Two, to sniff it using a hollow cane filled with powdered grass and then blown into the nostrils by another person, which according to Terence Mc Kenna felt like being knocked in the face with a hammer, and it involves barfing and other stuff too nasty to repeat...

However, there are many modern methods, including a two composite drug, and different kinds of refined crystals, where one ton [sic] of grass would give you enough etc.

We seem to agree on the rest one way or the other. That '___' seems to work exactly as the NDE cases argues. It's exactly the same scenario most '___' experimenters explain.

[edit on 23/1/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 08:23 PM
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1) you could never smoke enough grass to have an effect. If you eat it it has to be a special kind -- not found in the wild. So end of story.

2) Terrance McKenna had his strongest trip on DIGESTION of plant -- not smoking '___'. I, also, have done digestion of '___' -- so how can we agree? You have no experience! haha.

3) I've already written on the connection of '___' to kundalini and spirit travel. You continue to ignore this because you do not want to deal with it as your original contention was that NDEs and OBEs are simply a chemical byproduct of '___'. haha. Too bad.

4) If you have the "psychic balls" you will have to travel to the Amazon to do '___'. I, instead, used my qigong full-lotus skill, without the need for a guide.

5) Good luck on your personal quest to find out the truth of the post-death reality.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 



Originally posted by drew hempel
1) you could never smoke enough grass to have an effect. If you eat it it has to be a special kind -- not found in the wild. So end of story.


Yes, just like I said, you'd have to smoke a ton of grass, which is impossible, and like I said, you'd need to eat great ammounts too, but it would have no effect unless you'd eat atleast as much as a cow, AND in addition eat the same amount of maoi to trick the enzymes in your tummy. But it's no problem really to extract pure '___' from regular lawn grass. But not in your world naturally.


2) Terrance McKenna had his strongest trip on DIGESTION of plant -- not smoking '___'. I, also, have done digestion of '___' -- so how can we agree? You have no experience! haha.


I never said mr. McKenna smoked anything. I have read that he snorted some kind of powder, not smoking. If you'd like I could find a video clip showing how they do it. He said it felt like being smacked in the nose with a hammer. As for my experience, you're right. Once isn't experience. I'd have to do it atleast as much as you, I guess. Your Yogi must be proud of you....


3) I've already written on the connection of '___' to kundalini and spirit travel. You continue to ignore this because you do not want to deal with it as your original contention was that NDEs and OBEs are simply a chemical byproduct of '___'. haha. Too bad.


My original point was that NDE have a lot in common, just like '___' trips have. And in addition, their similar and not only similar, they discribe the same thing. We are all born with vast amounts of '___' within our bodies. At birth, it is released for the first time naturally, then during life you might experience some lesser trips during religious ceremonies, during sex or during heavy meditation. The whole kundalini experience is due to '___' or serotonin we already have in our bodies.


4) If you have the "psychic balls" you will have to travel to the Amazon to do '___'. I, instead, used my qigong full-lotus skill, without the need for a guide.


Good for you. I suppose....


5) Good luck on your personal quest to find out the truth of the post-death reality.


I don't play with nature much anymore. But I have tried just about what we have in nature, ranging from Daura, via Henbane, Nightshade, Salvia, and a bunch of other remedies. As for my experience, you mean I lack, and I have to laugh, for it has brought me a bunch of problems, a score or thereabout diagnoses, and you get the picture. I see you are proud of your playing with life and death and how it has somehow turned you into some kind of Ubermensch who refuse to listen because your own experience was so breathtaking. My only suggestion is that you stop doing it, but if you do it, learn from the shamans, and never do it alone, and never in order to get high.

[edit on 24/1/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 10:28 AM
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I would be interested to know how those of you who believe NDEs and OBEs are real account for this.

Transferred Organ Donor Consciousness

What these findings suggest is that consciousness is a distributed physical property of living matter, not a spirit, soul or sentient being which exists independently of matter.

I personally do not believe in an afterlife. However as medical science progresses I think the day will eventually come that we will be able to offload a backup copy of a person's consciousness to an offline storage device, and in the event of their death, create for them a new body and upload their consciousness to that body. I don't presume to know how this might be accomplished but I do believe it will become possible in the next 500 - 1000 years, provided the worlds religions don't send us spiraling into yet another theocracy induced Dark Age.

[edit on 24-1-2010 by Lilitu]



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by Lilitu
 


en.wikipedia.org...


A study conducted in 1901 by physician Duncan MacDougall sought to measure the weight lost by a human when the soul "departed the body" upon death.[27] MacDougall weighed dying patients in an attempt to prove that the soul was material, tangible and thus measurable. These experiments are widely considered to have had little if any scientific merit, and although MacDougall's results varied considerably from "21 grams," for some people this figure has become synonymous with the measure of a soul's mass.[28] The title of the 2003 movie 21 Grams is a reference to MacDougall's findings.


I remember I read about this some years ago, shaking my head, but what if there was something to it. The experiments were eventually stopped due to ethical issues. However, I'm sure there was also done some research into this in the 50's too.... According to these (not very scientific) studies man's soul weighs approximately 21 grams. Beat that!



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 10:51 AM
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Lilitu -- thanks for that great link. Yes in Buddhism there is no reincarnation but there is rebirth of the samskaras which are the different types of consciousness of the body and mind. In Taoism each main organ also has its own spirit or soul and this then determines which part of you goes to the earth at death and which part experiences rebirth after heaven, etc. Egyptian religion has a very similar belief and this goes back to alchemy from Ethiopia and then the original spirit healing culture of the Bushmen.

So the spirit is a light form and reality is a holograph -- all interwoven as one -- and the process of creation is eternal -- and individuality is an illusion.



reply to post by Lilitu
 



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by Lilitu
 


en.wikipedia.org...


A study conducted in 1901 by physician Duncan MacDougall sought to measure the weight lost by a human when the soul "departed the body" upon death.[27] MacDougall weighed dying patients in an attempt to prove that the soul was material, tangible and thus measurable. These experiments are widely considered to have had little if any scientific merit, and although MacDougall's results varied considerably from "21 grams," for some people this figure has become synonymous with the measure of a soul's mass.[28] The title of the 2003 movie 21 Grams is a reference to MacDougall's findings.


I remember I read about this some years ago, shaking my head, but what if there was something to it. The experiments were eventually stopped due to ethical issues. However, I'm sure there was also done some research into this in the 50's too.... According to these (not very scientific) studies man's soul weighs approximately 21 grams. Beat that!


We aren't on the same page. I said consciousness is a property of living matter, not a form of matter in its own right. If I fill a 1Tb drive with data does the drive doesn't become heavier because nothing with mass has been added.



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 
If you read up a little on " physician Duncan MacDougal" you'll find his methods were unscientific in method and repeatability. Not a total quack, but his standards of testing were pitiful.

On topic...the Doc's claims of proof of life after death are very dubious. He draws conclusions from hearsay accounts posted on a message board. The posters are English-speaking and reflect Western beliefs and values. Is it any wonder they feature Jesus a lot? The Doc supports the idea of Christian religion and again, reveals a bias.

He's prejudiced to the results. His wife/ family member's books are used as reference and citations! I hope he's a better Oncologist than critical thinking scientist..he really sucks at that!



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by Lilitu
 


The point is, that if that Terrabyte of information was erased or disconnected, the drive would be useless, leading to death or veggie state, and being it may have been a holographic drive (not the kind you have in your computer), where within a magnetic field you'd have particles run in circles and create a storage devise, this drive when shut off would actually be lighter, since the matter (in the form of let's say electrons and positrons) kept in check by the magnetic field, would dissapear into the thin air, making infact the device lighter. Not much, but lighter. For we don't have physical storage devices within our bodies, but a holographic conciousness held in place by what I believe is our soul, a kind of magnetic field which is measurable. And can be seen. Aura anyone?



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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Here check out Professor Stuart Hameroff's "quantum brain" research:

naturalresonancerevolution.blogspot.com...

The answer is found in Godel's Theorem -- it's a paradox about infinity and information storage.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


If you had read my post, you'd see that I actually said what you said there.

As for people being biased when suggesting there might be truth in religion.... Wouldn't people be equally biased when referencing to, let's say, Newton (who was more of an alchemist than an actual scientist) and Einstein (who was born and raised a Jew) or any other scientist who has "struck gold"? That you say this doc is biased, makes you biased, since you obviously have the other variant, that because of your bias you get the nugra whenever people mention Christ and refuse to complete even the slightest thought?



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by drew hempel
 


I saw that one a while back, and it's dead on here and there. I believe man is a quantum machine capable of nearly anything. I'll see if I get the chance to see it again, but it seems I have to tidy this place up a bit first, and get some food into my body....



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 



That you say this doc is biased, makes you biased, since you obviously have the other variant, that because of your bias you get the nugra whenever people mention Christ and refuse to complete even the slightest thought?


Firstly, I hadn't criticised you at all in the post so not sure why needed to get all hissy about it?

If a scientist is going to draw conclusions they will ensure their data isn't biased. They will use double-blinds etc to ensure the sample is unbiased and that a control group is present. They analyse the data using statistical tests. The conclusion is drawn from the results of the tests and compared to the null hypothesis. All of this is psychology 101.

Christ doesn't even come into this. Whatever bias I have doesn't detract from the fact that the Doc hasn't used rigorous scientific tests. He's used hearsay. His results are biased and conclusions just opinion.



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


I wasn't angry at all, but simply demonstrated how you are just as biased as anyone. Why did you get so defensive? I just showed you thatyou were throwing rocks in a greenhouse. All science is based on bias. We build temples where each stone is one scientific breakthrough. Every rock builds on the others below and the further up the wall you'd get, the more biased and uncertain that science is. However in a quantum universe, the foundation may actually be the roof of that temple. See? I didn't even mention Christ. Woops...



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by drew hempel
Lilitu -- thanks for that great link. Yes in Buddhism there is no reincarnation but there is rebirth of the samskaras which are the different types of consciousness of the body and mind. In Taoism each main organ also has its own spirit or soul and this then determines which part of you goes to the earth at death and which part experiences rebirth after heaven, etc. Egyptian religion has a very similar belief and this goes back to alchemy from Ethiopia and then the original spirit healing culture of the Bushmen.

So the spirit is a light form and reality is a holograph -- all interwoven as one -- and the process of creation is eternal -- and individuality is an illusion.



reply to post by Lilitu
 




There is a hint (and only a hint) of truth in what you are saying but it doesn't lead in the direction you might like it to. You would benefit from reading Julian Jaynes (I'm going to have to add this to my sig LOL!) The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind. Read the whole book from front to back (you are wasting your time if you don't) but pay particularly close attention in chapter 5 to the section on Preconscious Hypostases. Actually you can read that section by following the above link and clicking on "Click to look inside", then use the search facility to search for the term Preconscious Hypostases which will take you to page 259 where that section begins. I cannot stress enough however that unless you first read Book I where Jaynes lays out what consciousness is not you will come away not understanding Jaynesian Psychology at all.

You might also be interested to know that my great grandfather was a Zen Master, at least up to the time at which he experienced Satori. He then renounced Buddhism, left the monastery, got a job and married. He was an atheist for the rest of his life. The only apparent vestige of Zen which remained was that when someone asked him why he renounced religion he would respond by striking them on the head with his pipe.



[edit on 24-1-2010 by Lilitu]



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by Lilitu
 


The point is, that if that Terrabyte of information was erased or disconnected, the drive would be useless, leading to death or veggie state, and being it may have been a holographic drive (not the kind you have in your computer), where within a magnetic field you'd have particles run in circles and create a storage devise, this drive when shut off would actually be lighter, since the matter (in the form of let's say electrons and positrons) kept in check by the magnetic field, would dissapear into the thin air, making infact the device lighter.


Yes but only if it is a network drive and the evil bit has not been set. Please refer to IETF RFC 3514 for more information.



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 12:48 PM
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You might also be interested to know that my great grandfather was a Zen Master, at least up to the time at which he experienced Satori. He then renounced Buddhism, left the monastery, got a job and married. He was an atheist for the rest of his life. The only apparent vestige of Zen which remained was that when someone asked him why he renounced religion he would respond by striking them on the head with his pipe.



[edit on 24-1-2010 by Lilitu]


This is extremely interesting. What are your thoughts on why your great grandfather renounced Buddhism after experiencing Satori?

(Apology to the OP for going off topic, but this is too interesting to not question.)



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 
Lotta words and not a lot of relevance to the OP or my reply. There's no 'bias' in expecting a scientist to apply accepted standards before forming a conclusion. Funny enough, I can't find a peer-reviewed paper by the good Doc.




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