Scientific evidence proves life after death?

Pretty good website, apparently this doctor has been studying accounts around the world for some time

www.time.com...

Originally posted by kingofmd
Pretty good website, apparently this doctor has been studying accounts around the world for some time

www.time.com...

I read this article in full and found it to be very pluggy, He didn't actually tell you anything, this was just marketing speak.

What was the purpose of that article... to get you to GO OUT AND BUY his book.

IS there life after death?

The truth is no one knows for sure, as no one who has died has sprung back to life years later to explain what being dead was like.

My personal view is that consciousness prevails after death. I am however not religious and I don't believe in a man in white GOD who judges you on our concept of morality.

I think that consciousness is a function of the universe and that we are all of the same consciousness.

The brain is not the creator of consciousness but a receiver, like a radio tuning in to certain frequencies of Consciousness, This explains why people are so different, yet we all experience the same things, just how we deal with them is different.

All in all this subject is worthy of great amounts of study, though I feel the answer to the question will only come to us after we have a much greater grasp of reality and how it is directly connected to consciousness.

Hope this makes sence to you if you are reading this,

All the best,

Peace out,

Korg.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by Korg Trinity]

Thanks for the link

There have been so many books about this subject, filled with accounts provided by ordinary folk who have nothing to gain from recounting their experience, yet science continues to offer 'explanations' which, as the author says in the article you linked, 'make less sense than the phenomenon they're attempting to dispute' ... or words to that effect

Most of know someone first or second-hand who's had a near-death experience. When they tell you what happened to them, they're sincere and usually, amazed

For example, years ago, I spoke with a woman who'd just given birth. In ordinary circumstances, I'm sure the first and only thing on her mind would be her new baby. But instead, this woman fixed me with her eyes and repeated, 'I died. I saw myself from above'

She went on to tell me that she'd suddenly found herself 'above' the doctors and nurses and was looking down at her body as she struggled with the birth

She also said that she'd loved being 'free' of herself and the pain and that it felt 'lovely' being away from all of it. Then, she said, she'd felt guilty at the thought of leaving her husband and baby alone. Next she knew, she was back in her body

The experience ranked as more important, for a few days, than her first child, from which she felt (and behaved) detached. Then Nature stepped in and within a week, she was like any other young mother and devoted to her baby

It's just another account and I realise it won't have any particular interest or believability for most. But I was there, saw the expressions on her face, heard her voice. I have no doubt she was telling the truth as she knew it

Back then, there wasn't a great deal of discussion of Out of Body Experiences. It was long before internet and even before Scott Rogo's books which for many, introduced them to the OOBE phenomenon. The woman was genuinely astonished by what had happened to her. I was able to tell her that she wasn't going crazy, that it had happened to many before her

I don't blame 'science' for attempting to discount such accounts as they fly in face of what most in the scientific community were taught (and want to believe ). Also, most in the scientific community seek to 'protect' us from what they consider to be hoaxes and misunderstood/misinterpreted experiences which, they claim, have a perfectly logical explanation. They need to believe 'everything has a logical explanation'. It frightens them when something 'won't fit' their theories

Nevertheless, people continue to have these experiences and afterwards, they don't really care what science has to say about it, because they know what happened to them and ... being more flexible and open minded than most maths-based 'scientists' ... they have no vested interest in making their experience fit a scientific box

reply to post by kingofmd


Nice story, good find. Unfortunately, another scientist that doesn't know what he or she is talking about will come along and debunk your findings. And the majority of humanity will follow suit. Sad, but true.

I have always believed in life after death and always will. The Universe alone is a clear indication that there is life after this one.

Imagine this if you will. There are plenty enough planets out there for each and every one of us to have one to call our own. Wouldn't it be something being the owner of your very own planet to run however you wish?

Kingofmd, the ruler of the great planet of (enter name of planet here)

When you think about, this concept isn't too far fetched.

S&F.

~ Zeus

[edit on 22-1-2010 by Zeus2573]

reply to post by Korg Trinity

All in all this subject is worthy of great amounts of study, though I feel the answer to the question will only come to us after we have a much greater grasp of reality and how it is directly connected to consciousness.

Nicely put

I feel the same way

I entertain the theory of life after death. there does seem to be some leads in science that allows for the possibility although its still a radically new field (quantum physics) and in reality, we are still trying to uncover all the principles involved in QP before we start using that as a base to understand this....cart in front of the horse type thing (hell, we are still struggling with understanding gravity.)

So, I know never to dismiss this possibility, especially since there are genuinely unusual documented cases.

The problem lies in the subject to begin with...hard to study NDEs in any controlled way considering you cant really start killing people to try and bring them back (like in flatliners)...and typically people are requesting family around them near death...not scientists hooking you up to machines.

I have had some very wild "ghost" experiences...but I simply label these events as ghosts for a easy word to use, I make no claim as to what a ghost is beyond something out of the ordinary and expected...if I go into speculation of what it may be, I can speculate till the cows come home...from the conscious energy of my dead aunt edna, to subconscious telekenesis, invisible aliens, demons, mass hallucinations brought on by government agencys testing some new weapon, etc etc etc...all possibilities are open and saying its definately one over the other is a logic fail

Anyhow, nice link. hopefully this subject will be studied more and understood...its nice to consider the possibility that after death, the consciousness of the person continues to exist in some form...but if it doesn't, that is also important to uncover (then we can discard all these religions once and for all)

reply to post by SaturnFX


Great post ... again

Think you just about covered it and did it well

life after death??? I have read many story's of people dying then been brought back to life! here is a guy that was dead for 40 minutes www.abc15.com... now I do believe sth happens after you die! so what's your thoughts on this and cases like it? if he was dead should he have moved on????

I am not going to deny a possible life after death. I will say however that all these accounts do provide evidence for a possible common dieing experience.

It could be some magical fairy tail heaven, or universal consciousness or what ever. It is more than likey something our brains do to us when it knows we are about to die. More or less a brains way of shutting down.

If that brain never shuts down it is not dead therefore none of these experiences are of death rather they are experience of near-death.

My personal belief based on common sense, and a disbelief in after life Santa Clause is that when we die we are done. Sure the cells we are made of continue to exists and breakdown, and are fed back into the universe for use in other ways, but as far as being conscious your not. When your done your done.

No pain, no fear, nothing. It will be ok just like that. Really.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by Xeven]

it amazes me that people dont see the general flaw with these "accounts"...


the people who gave them are still alive. their acoount cant really prove anything because they werent really dead. if they were dead then they would be able to tell us about it.

Originally posted by miriam0566
it amazes me that people dont see the general flaw with these "accounts"...


the people who gave them are still alive. their acoount cant really prove anything because they werent really dead. if they were dead then they would be able to tell us about it.

err Hence the terms Near Death Experience...

Though the term describes those that have had experience after they were pronounced clinically dead, i.e. no detectable brain function.

Hope that helps,

Peace out,

Korg.

[edit on 23-1-2010 by Korg Trinity]

Actually as the article implies there have been minute details analyzed about the NDE experiences.

Here's a brand new radio interview with two experts who have given new details about whether the brain could still function if there is no EEG reading or whether a person is really dead, etc.

As the surgery in Arizona notes -- the person is dead - and the most famous example of the NDE was the same surgery in Arizona -- body cooled, oxygen removed, etc. DEAD -- yet had a very lucid -- more lucid than being awake -- vision of the surgery room.

www.skeptiko.com...

Originally posted by Korg TrinityThough the term describes those that have had experience after they were pronounced clinically dead, i.e. no detectable brain function.

so they were hooked up to a brain wave monitor? how was it determined that they had no activity in the brain?

my point is that they are not dead. how could we possibly know that what they experienced was some taste of an afterlife?

Well I did provide a link but if you need me to post the actual material from the link I can do that as well:

Neurologist and University of Toledo Neuroscience Researcher, Dr. John Greenfield considers the EEG data from patients with near death experience (NDE). eeg-book21For near death experience skeptics, medical evidence of a flat EEG during an out of body experience has always been a stumbling block. After all, a brain dead patient can’t hallucinate. But, does a flat EEG really mean no brain activity? NDE doubters have claimed activity deep inside the brain, beyond the reach of EEG instruments, must account for the complex “realer than real” experiences reported by those who briefly pass into the afterlife. Now, University of Toledo Neuroscience researcher, and EEG expert, Dr. John Greenfield explains why this claim doesn’t hold up. “It’s very unlikely that a hypoperfused brain [someone with no blood flow to the brain], with no evidence of electrical activity could generate NDEs. Human studies as well as animal studies have typically shown very little brain perfusion [blood flow] or glucose utilization when the EEG is flat. There are deep brain areas involved in generating memories that might still operate at some very reduced level during cardiac arrest, but of course any subcortically generated activity can’t be brought to consciousness without at least one functioning cerebral hemisphere. So even if there were some way that NDEs were generated during the hypoxic state [while the brain is shut off from oxygen], you would not experience them until reperfusion [blood flow] allowed you to dream them or wake up and talk about them”, Greenfield stated. NDE Researcher, Dr. Penny Sartori, examines memories of resuscitation by patients suffering cardiac arrest. With near death experience cases making there way into the, New England Journal of Medicine, Journal of Psychiatry, and other major medical journals, NDE doubters have looked to the timing of patient memories as a way of explaining this unexplainable phenomena. If memories of out of body travel, and all embracing love occur after ones brush with death, NDEs may still fit within our medical science worldview. The timing of NDE memories is the research question Dr. Penny Sartori sought to answer, “I worked in the intensive care unit and because of the nature of my job, of course, I’d come across a lot of death. And of course makes you wonder what happens when we die. For five years I gathered data, where I spoke to patients in the intensive care unit and particularly patients who’d had a cardiac arrest. When these patients revived, as soon as they were medically fit, I approached them and asked the simple question, ‘Did you have any memory of the time that you were unconscious?’” “For the people who had a near-death experience and out of body experience [their recollection of resuscitation] was really quite accurate and I decided then to ask the control group, the people who’d had a cardiac arrest but had no recollection of anything at all. I asked them if they would reenact their resuscitation scenario and tell me what they thought that we had done to resuscitate them. And what I found is that many of the patients couldn’t even guess as to what we’d done. They had no idea at all. And then some of them did make guesses, but these were based on TV hospital dramas that they’d seen. I found that what they reported was widely inaccurate. So there was a stark contrast really in the very accurate out of body experiences reported and then the guesses that the control group had made.”, Dr. Sartori reported. While research like this may never be enough to convince dogmatic skeptics, the medical evidence for near death experience continues to challenge us to reexamine our beliefs about what lies beyond death.

reply to post by miriam0566

What not many people are aware of, is that when a person dies, a whole bunch of chemical stuff is happening in the brain, and like this doctor says, it's highly organised. But proof of an afterlife? No. For instance a highly psychoactive hallucinogen is let out into the brain. It happens two times during life in a niormal man, who hasn't played with this compound known as '___' or N,N-dimethyltryptamin or Nigerine, which is basically chemically just about identical to the neuro transmitter Serotonine. At birth, and when a person dies. People, like myself, who have tried out this stuff inbetween these two life states, can witness of much the same euphoria and tunnels of light, dead relatives, visions of Jesus and Mother Mary etc. All I want to say about that experience, is that it was very disturbing and not something one would use for a redcreational drug. There are no proofs, including this doctor's educated guess, that can alter my idea that this would indeed explain all the similarities in people's explanations of how there could be so many similarities. The experience is drug induced, no doubt in my mind.... Dr. Rick Strassman, University of New Mexico's book called "'___': The Spirit Molecule" would be appropriate lecture for the doctor mentioned in the OP. Or like Alan Watts once said about '___': "Load universe into cannon. Aim at brain. Fire." It's obvious to me what people are really talking about when it comes to NDE, it's just a misspelling of '___'.

Interesting attempt but too limited.

First of all have you done '___'?

I have done mimosa-syrian rue which is more powerful than ayahausca.

But importantly I did '___' while in full-lotus after I did my third eye qigong alchemy training.

So guess what -- '___' activates your kundalini.

Kundalini is what enables spirit travel.

I went 8 days on half a glass of water while increasing electromagnetic fields in my body -- this is the qigong training. The person I took classes from went 49 days -- in full-lotus pyramid power yoga position -- in a cave in China -- 49 days nonstop full-lotus with no food, no water and no sleep.

So yes there is life after death! haha. I've done it. The person who went 49 days, Chunyi Lin, does healing in Minnesota with the Mayo Clinic -- the top hospital in the world.

Check this out:

www.youtube.com...

Now watch these:

www.springforestqigong.com...

Pineal gland works through piezoelectric transduction. '___' is made from melatonin but there's a whole other level of electromagnetic energy produced as well - it's called "biophoton" energy in Western science.

I've SEEN DEAD SPIRITS and Chunyi Lin interacts with dead spirits all the time.

[edit on 23-1-2010 by drew hempel]

'___', though very psychoactive can't eaten just like that, since it will be decomposed in our stomac before it can reach the blood circuit. The composit was based on ancient ritual ingestion from somewhere in South America, where shamans eat two kinds of plants. One containing the '___' itself, and often in many different versions into one plant (like lawn grass), and another compound to keep the stomac busy so the '___' may enter the blood without being decomposed. The sensation lasted for about half an hour, before it dissapeared. Certainly not days or weeks or even months. It might have felt like time was standing still and that dimentions interrelated, and sound was tuned down (much similar to other experiences I have had back in the days playing with nature) but the clock told us exactly what ammount of minutes had passed. I suppose you may have entered a kundalini state, like you insinuated, and not entirely related to the '___' itself. However, I have had similar experiences meditating and singing, or even sexually. This stuff exists within our bodies without the need of an external drug. You can even get the same sensation during sunay service. Often explained as having to do with some Holy Spirit. Chemically, however, it's due to '___'. Just like the feeling of being in love can be induced chemically by eating vast ammounts of chocholade, the feeling of God's precence can be induced through putting '___' into the body.

Yeah I'm against the golden ratio as well. Syrian Rue is a MAOI -- so the '___' does not break down -- Mimosa is a very powerful '___' source.

Trust me -- it's a full kundalini activation -- a post-death experience. I was in full-lotus for about 5 hours but I fasted 24 hours before I took the '___'. Amazing experience -- the bliss was unreal -- completely fantastic.

I call it the "rainbow vortex of reality" -- it's also called '___' hyperspace -- it's the tunnel of light that people see. But consciousness creates this spacetime tunnel.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

reply to post by drew hempel


Like I said, regular lawn grass is also a very potent '___' source (no wonder why the cows have such deep eyes), but you can't get high on eating grass alone, if you are human that is. However, had you been eating this other compound I mentioned together with the lawn grass, you'd see pink elephants and knights in shining armour followed by hords of angels. No doubt.

What you're talking about is only a couple strains of grass which are no longer found grown in the wild -- they've been bred out. Here's what erowid reports:

Unfortunately, sheep herders in Australian desired strains of low alkaloid phalaris plants. So now most commercially available phalaris are probably weak. Phalaris can be obtained through mail order herb companies, some of who advertise high alkaloid plants. Because I do not wish to associate these fine suppliers names' with an article on how to prepare a drug, I will not provide names or addresses. Just ask around on the net. SHEEP DEATH I put this as a separate section to highlight it's significance. Remember, if you try these drugs, you are using something that kills sheep. The toxic syndrome is called "phalaris staggers." It is manifested by apparent dizziness, staggering, and tremors, sometimes resulting in death. The syndrome affects sheep that have eaten high alkaloid phalaris. On autopsy, after naturally and experimentally induced phalaris staggers in sheep, portions of the lower brain are seen to be damaged and, oddly enough, tinted blue. The responsible agents are the alkaloids contained in the various phalaris species. There are whispered rumors that phalaris also contain beta carbolines, a type of MAOI. If so,it may be that sheep, in eating large quantities of phalaris, also obtain a dose of MAOI, making the already large dose (pounds of phalaris could easily be eaten by a sheep or cow in a day), of '___' active. However, MAOIs are not required for sheep death. Studies show that controlled injections of pure '___', at human recreational doses, kill sheep. Why sheep and humans respond differently to '___' is still an open question here. It may be that it is not an important question, but the possibility of human death on phalaris still looms.

And from JSTOR:

Alkaloid Levels in Reed Canarygrass Grown on Wet Meadows in British Columbia, by W. Majak, R. E. McDiarmid, A. L. Van Ryswyk, K. Broersma and S. G. Bonin © 1979 Allen Press. Abstract Hordenine, gramine, and 5-methoxy-N-methyltryptamine (5MMT) were identified as the major basic alkaloids in reed canarygrass grown on wet meadows in Interior British Columbia. The concentrations of these anti-quality constituents, determined sequentially at four field locations, were exceptionally low compared with levels found for reed canarygrass grown under growth room conditions. Under field conditions, for example, 5MMT levels did not exceed 250 μg/g (dry wt), whereas a peak level of 4,250 μg/g 5MMT was recorded from the growth room. Depressed alkaloid levels under wet meadow field conditions were observed in all varieties tested including two experimental varieties, one registered variety, and a commercial type. Low alkaloid levels on wet meadows appeared to coincide with fewer types of alkaloids: 5-methoxy-N, N-dimethyltryptamine (5'___') was not detected under field conditions but it was present in all reed canarygrass samples analyzed from the growth room. Field applications of fertilizer (NPK) appeared to have marginal effects on alkaloid levels. On wet meadows the trends indicated that gramine and 5MMT concentrations increased toward the end of the growing season, but low total alkaloid levels were still maintained. The factor of soil moisture stress is reviewed in relation to alkaloid levels in reed canarygrass. Recently developed thin layer chromatography (TLC) scanning procedures were used to determine concentrations of gramine and 5MMT. New TLC fluorescence methods were devised for the quantitative determination of hordenine and 5'___' in reed canarygrass.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic




[edit on 23-1-2010 by drew hempel]