Jesus in the Crosshairs

reply to post by The_Archangel


You're right Arch i'm gone. You guys deal with him.

reply to post by randyvs


Please dont

There are too many posters like this on ATS I'm affraid which is a shame but on the flip side, if we all thought the same then it would become a boring place to be.

Just a general observation here, but I think we tend to forget how many millions of men have died in wars of the past, believing they had God (or Allah, etc.) on their side --- who believed they were fighting a 'just' war for God, King and Country

The founder of the company which produced the rifle-sights under discussion was very probably of such a mindset

Millions of Americans died as recently as World War Two, for instance, firm in the belief that God was on their shoulder. And this was encouraged by stories of how this or that man had been saved from death by the pocket-Bible in his shirt or jacket. Many stories were most probably true. They made people feel better and were popular, were repeated and appeared to confirm that God was there, 'on our side'

For many, the conviction they were fighting and killing to serve and protect their country and family, way of life and religion, was the only thing that kept them going. Most men (and women) do not want to kill another human being. Americans in particular have almost always voted against participation in wars, which is why false-flags such as Pearl Harbour and 9/11 have been staged as a means of pushing them into wars

In many instances, the Biblical references on their rifle sights might have persuaded them of the 'rightness' of their involvement and may have helped them to 'distance' themselves from what they were doing, i.e., fulfilling the role of 'God's soldiers' while firing at and killing, human beings

Originally posted by Dock9
Millions of Americans died as recently as World War Two, for instance, firm in the belief that God was on their shoulder.

As did he German army with the slogan 'Gott mit uns'.

Originally posted by sparrowstail
Interesting that the bible reference would be on a scope as opposed to the rifle itself. Probably because the scope lets you see close up the face and into the eyes of the guy you are about to snipe. It kind of makes sense when you think of it, the scope gets you awfully close to your kill, maybe so close as to cause cold trigger fingers/feet

I am not in any way supporting it but, but just saying it's a good or bad (how you see it) little piece of disinfo.

Well - the rifles themselves are not made by this company. Troops today are using things made by many different private companies.

From what I've read of the passages included on the scopes they all seem to have a common thread of "vision", "light", being able to see better, etc.

This just my guess - as we'll probably never know for sure. The founder of the company was the one that started this. He may have just thought it a clever way to "spread the word". He was just another Christian who was mis-guided in his faith. He certainly isn't the first and won't be the last.

There is no conspiracy here believe it or not.

I am sure it is a case of the manufacturer wanting the soldier/shooter to be witnessed to each time he/she is possibly about to die. The scripture denoted would be a great thing to go out of this world thinking.

Originally posted by Bombeni
There is no conspiracy here believe it or not.

Is it OK if I don't believe it?

I believe the inscriptions were purposely put there to associate killing with Christian values.

As a portion of the armies involved in Iraq and Afghanistan are NOT Christians, I believe it is a disingenious plot.

Originally posted by masqua

Is it OK if I don't believe it?

I believe the inscriptions were purposely put there to associate killing with Christian values.

As a portion of the armies involved in Iraq and Afghanistan are NOT Christians, I believe it is a disingenious plot.

Then could you assume the OT was put in the xtian bible to associate killing with xtian values?

I am not sure its so much of a conspiracy as to say "hey this is a holy war" to those looking thru the "scopes". Quite clearly stated by the president at its inception anyway, wasnt it?

reply to post by masqua


Killing???? ---------- Christian values????

Sure, believe what you want.

Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by masqua

 

Killing???? ---------- Christian values????

Sure, believe what you want.

You are eyes are closed my friend if you do not see the connection between govermental rhetoric and their attempts to connect the war fighting aspirations and the need to united the masses in a common belief against an ancient foe.

This was no just used on the on the shore of the western Atlantic, Blair used the same talk in his belief that God was on his side.

If Blair would have had any conviction in his belief, then he would have converted to Catholisism before he stood down as president...sorry, Prime Minister. Instead he took the oppertunity to absolve him self of guilt in the Baptism of his new faith as he handed over the 'reigns' to Brown.

Sanctified Warfare

Even before the end of the Cold War, some scholars were beginning to ask about the relationship of the just-war tradition, as an accomplishment of Western culture, to other traditions of warfare. One of the most outstanding characteristics of the post-Cold War era, in fact, was the return of religious, or "holy" war-war in which religion provides an important source of legitimation and inspiration for military action. In one sense, "holy" war is one of the oldest ways for humans to think about war. In the texts that come down to us from ancient Israel (for Christians, the Old Testament; for Jews, the Bible), we find images of divinely authorized campaigns against enemies. Throughout the history of Christianity and of Islam, the notion of war fought for religious reasons is a familiar theme*.

www.rinr.fsu.edu...

*Bolding mine

How has the geography of religion evolved over the centuries, and where has it sparked wars? Our map gives us a brief history of the world's most well-known religions: Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism. Selected periods of inter-religious bloodshed are also highlighted. Want to see 5,000 years of religion in 90 seconds? Ready, Set, Go!*
www.mapsofwar.com...

*includes quick vid

The root cause of religious wars seems to be inherent in the nature of religious beliefs. Every religion has rigid dogmas and creeds which define their philosophy and their theories about the universe and the meaning of life. Problems arise because these dogmas are so inflexible that they allow no criticism, no difference of opinion and zero tolerance for any other theories. The beliefs are so demanding that no other opinion can be allowed to exist.
www.americanchronicle.com...

The act of this company putting scripture into the crosshairs is advancing evangelical theology by associating militarism with religion and continuing a practice as old as tribal conflict.

Time we move on from the lies upon which wars are 'sanctified' and get to the truth... they are started by greed and retaliated to in self-defence. No need to put symbols on the standards (or the scopes for that matter).

Leave religion where it belongs; in the heart, not on a weapon of death and destruction.

sp

[edit on 22/1/10 by masqua]

Maybe the manufacturer of the rifle scopes hasn't gotten around to these verses yet:
Exodus 20:13 "Thou Shalt not Kill"

Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


Put some of those verses (and others) on the scopes. That might bring the troops home, the Christians that is. We should all be aware that the corrupter and deceiver of the Word of Christianity is the problem, not Christianity itself.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]

Jesus has always been in the crosshairs(figuratively).

The simple fact of the matter is that there are those who see this for what it is, and those who see it for what they want it to be.

Those who would think Jesus condones murder are the ones who see their own iminent death(separation from God)....They're literally saying "Go ahead God, smite me, but I'm going to be eternally pissed at you for doing what I wanted you to...."

The manufacturer made a bad decision. Tacky in fact. Beyond that, this is just fodder to rile up the haters.

The message from Jesus was clear. It's men who screw it all up. Always has been that way, always will be that way.

Only man could find a problem with the message of loving and caring about each other. Only a man could pervert such a simple message. Only a man could be offended by it.

Beyond discussing the fact that the company should probably stop doing what they are doing, I don't see anything of any importance coming from this. The Christians did not put it there. Jesus most certainly did not put it there. A man who may or may not be a real Christian put it there. It's not even a Christian related issue without resorting to intellectual dishonesty. The same dishonesty that keeps the words of hate flowing.

We are an imperfect species and we often do dumb things. This is just an example of that.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
It's not even a Christian related issue without resorting to intellectual dishonesty. The same dishonesty that keeps the words of hate flowing.

Please explain how Christian scripture visible in a gunsight isn't related to Christian ethics and how discussion of the issue is, in your eyes, intellectual dishonesty.

Further to that, how do you see the exposure of the practice (through this debate) as fomenting hate?

Man, how can so many replies come from this issue? I don't think Jesus would appreciate His words being used on crosshairs that are aiming at the very people He died for. In the end, God gets the last vengeance anyway.

I bought an sks laminated ruskie stock for about 15 usd.

On the foregrip it had ps23 engraved where the finger grooves are on one side and jn 316 on the other!

I thought that was just too cold blooded!

That was an excellent stock btw!