Dem Health Care Talks Collapsing - Thank God!

You know what is funny sometimes?
It is those who need Healthcare the most are the ones opposing healthcare reform...

reply to post by saabacura


Yeah, mental health care.

Forty-seven million Americans are without health insurance. Why? Because they can't afford it.

Yes but many can not afford it because they have pre existing conditions or because of pre existing conditions no company will sell them any.

That should have been voted out of existence months ago.

Hell the states should have made the practice illegal years ago.
and we would not be debating this now.

Yes, these threads are really are starting to make me mad. Healthcare is a huge problem and its embarressing that we havent done something about it. I don't agree with everything in this bill but I was so happy that it was getting talked about and something was finally happening with it. I'm diss. that it might be stopping...I'm so sick of the rep/dem sides gawd! Whoever made the circle jerk comment made me chuckle and couldn't be more approriate...I starred you.

reply to post by Eurisko2012

So you appear to be for nothing???
--------------------------------------
That's a cool strategy. Be for nothing that way you can't be
criticized.

It's not that I'm for nothing. In fact, I could argue that supporting the "libs" or the "cons" is actually supporting nothing since they are essentially the same thing anyways.
You appear to believe that if i'm not signed up to the right or the left that there cant be anything left over. You can see how thinking that way would make people draw conclusions that maybe you live inside a tiiiiiiny little box. Can't you?

It doesn't make sense to just pick a side based on whatever is in style....a year ago it was hip to support Obama. Now he's an evil commie...
I swear people just vote for who they think will win just so they can feel like their part of the winning team. Like I said, voters suck. This us vs them pettiness has ruined politics. I follow good ideas, not parties.

I hope you don't want the Canadian Health Care system down here. Currently, it's IMPLODING up there.

I'm "up here" and can tell you your wrong....stop listening to propaganda and then try and use it to back up your arguments. Do some independent research.

Canadians strongly support the health system's public rather than for-profit private basis, and a 2009 poll by Nanos Research found 86.2% of Canadians surveyed supported or strongly supported "public solutions to make our public health care stronger."[3][4] A 2009 Harris/Decima poll found 82% of Canadians preferred their healthcare system to the one in the United States, more than ten times as many as the 8% stating a preference for a US-style health care system for Canada[5] while a Strategic Counsel survey in 2008 found 91% of Canadians preferring their healthcare system to that of the U.S.[6][7]. In the same poll, when asked “overall the Canadian health care system was performing very well, fairly well, not very well or not at all?” 70% of Canadians rated their system as working either "well" or "very well".[citation needed] A 2003 Gallup poll found only 25% of Americans are either "very" or "somewhat" satisfied with "the availability of affordable healthcare in the nation," versus 50% of those in the UK and 57% of Canadians. Those "very dissatisfied" made up 44% of Americans, 25% of respondents of Britons, and 17% of Canadians[8]


Wiki source

Our outstanding debt is so large that the interest being accrued is absorbing every tax dollar the government takes in. The INTEREST. Let alone the principle. What do some of you think will happen? That if we went ahead with this health care proposal- that we would actually do anything to alleviate the health care crisis whilst NOT going broke? If this is what people believe then you'd be in for one hell of a surprise within MONTHS of passage. LOUD signals have already been sent by our foreign creditors and the American people to CUT THIS CRAP OUT-Has this administration taken heed? NO.

The road to hell is paved in good intentions, and let's just say for the sake of example that Obama isn't the corrupt wolf-in-sheep's-clothing I think he is- This would mean he actually believes government can make a positive difference in the lives of Americans by expanding to absorb the losses in the private sector. If this is the case, then it is utter ignorance to completely counteract the nature of business with ARTIFICIAL growth created by government intervention- Favoritism, Bailouts, Bonuses, and the curtailing of more freedom has ALL been paid for and perpetrated by the government. They cannot be trusted to take over private industry.

It's also against the Constitution. The Constitution grants a certain list of powers to the Federal Government, anything outside of that falls under the Tenth amendment-States Rights. Yes, that's right folks, the only way we're going to be able to fix health care is to first put a stop to government growth(And reverse it), pay down our ridiculous debt to manageable levels, and allow the states to regulate their own health care systems. States know better what they need and want more so than any blanket ordinance from the Feds.

I feel the same way about education-Everyone complains about how kids are so dumb these days, and that the schools suck so bad-and yet no one stops to think what the cause of this might be. The Department of Education. You still don't think States know what their needs are better than the Feds? How has that "No Child Left Behind" Act turned out so far? How fat are your kids because of the corporate deals forced upon schools to turn up an operating budget- That's done by the DOE- They fill your kids with sugar drinks and junk food, and let you deal with the behavioral problems. They administer blanket policies and ordinances that hurt the quality of education. They've turned school into 8 hours a day in prison. And we wonder why we are at the bottom of lists we used to top as a nation?

America PLEASE stop doing this # to yourself. The Answer to bad government isn't more of it.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by projectvxn]

reply to post by projectvxn

Our outstanding debt is so large that the interest being accrued is absorbing every tax dollar the government takes in. The INTEREST. Let alone the principle. What do some of you think will happen? That if we went ahead with this health care proposal- that we would actually do anything to alleviate the health care crisis whilst NOT going broke?

I fear that's your biggest roadblock at the moment. But If you visit the link I provided, at the bottom it has a chart to compare #of doctor/1000 people, life expectancy, %of GDP spent on healthcare and % per capita expenditure etc.

Using those numbers, one great example for comparison is % of GDP spent. We currently spend 10.1% of GDP for universal( one payer system) healthcare, while the US is spending 16.0% on your current system that doesn't cover all and denies/bankrupts families.

I would argue that your current problems for a lack of full coverage for all is because of a bloated, inefficient, corrupt system. Tort reform is not enough, it's the insurance/drug companies and lazy, oversized bureaucracy that will fight kicking and screaming not to give an inch(profit, salary, stock price, etc.) to change. Why would they, they have theirs

Think about that again 10.1% of GDP for ALL. 16.0% GDP for some. Therein lays the US's problem.



[edit on 22-1-2010 by Connector]

reply to post by Connector


I'm not even talking about tort reform. I'm encouraging the dismantling of managed care, because it is corrupt and managed poorly. Medicare/Medicaid are in the red BIG TIME. Social Security-deep in the red, Postal Service, Federal Reserve, the damned Treasury is out of treasure...I advocate the total dismantling of this system...It is going to KILL US not to. We must return to the Constitution.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by projectvxn]

reply to post by projectvxn

It is going to KILL US not to. We must return to the Constitution.

It will kill my father who cannot work and is totally reliant on both SS and medicare as he has battled cancer for years.

I love our Constitution...but I will always love my father more.

reply to post by projectvxn


Ahhh.....that's an whole other debate . Gotta start somewhere though and dismantling your current healthcare would be a good start I believe Obama thought he could do just that, but soon realized the walls infront of him were insurmountable and slowly watered down his bill to at least get some reform, but alas, that seems to even have failed. Like I said, they'll fight kicking and screaming to STOP change.

Unfortunately, the latest ruling by your Supreme Court, has made change nearly impossible. And if the Americans I encounter on various forums and in real life are any indication.......your body politic is so heavily divided that it can never unite to do what you are suggesting. It's the proverbial divide and conquer.

reply to post by David9176


I'm sorry to hear that.

But a move such as this will eventually render the nation INCAPABLE of taking care of your father in any capacity, and for a very long time. It isn't as though I'm against reforming the health system, I just don't want it nationalized-or in any capacity legislated for. The Constitution is specific and for a reason. And so long as insurance companies continue to buy government(And thanks to the supreme court they'll have even more pull) we will never change this.

My mother is sick, she has no insurance and can't work. I'm doing my best to send her money to take care of her immediate needs, but I couldn't advocate screwing the future of the country for so little in return. I love my mother more than anything else and I will sacrifice as much as I can to help her, and until then I will work toward a system in my state that works, that is efficient, and gives everyone a real choice. We can't afford to have a corrupt government run a system they've proved they can't run.

reply to post by Eurisko2012


Corporate America won again, big insurance companies has spend more money lobbying in this campaign health care reform than any other lobbyist group in the nation, and they were only number three on lobbying power, after oil companies and big pharma.

Who won again? it was not the people.



[edit on 22-1-2010 by marg6043]

I'm one of the people who is uninsurable with a pre-existing condition that was expensive to diagnose but not expensive to manage...so far. I'm also over 50 and while I'll fully support single payer or Medicare for all, I'm preparing myself for medical tourism. If no meaningful health care reform is passed many of us are going to be forced to go this route and how is this country going to feel when I take all of my money out of this country to purchase health care at a reasonable price somewhere else? The health care reform debate is not over. Nothing has passed yet, you all realize that, right? Keep fighting against the greed corruption!

If I find a good place to live I may stay. If lots of people my age who have money, are uninusrable and don't want to spend it on the corrupt and greedy health care industry here in the USA how's that going to work out? Trust me, you may hate baby boomers but you do not want to see us take all our wealth out of the country. I am going to research this a lot because I simply won't give any money to any health insurance company, not after they have already ruined my life once - and I will not ever support the mandate to buy it. What they are talking about isn't "Obamacare", it's not what he wanted. People who use this term are clueless.

A good buddy of mine had a cousin in Canada. She ended up with cancer; she was in her early 40's. The Canadian doctors treated the cancer to a point and then they gave up and basically told her she had 4 to 6 months to live.

She took her own money, went to the States for treatments. She had several operations along the way. She lived another seven years.

This attitude of "go home and die" is what is known as "rationing healthcare" (also known as death panels). It's real.

Socialist healthcare is great as long as you're not sick.

On the other hand, if your company doesn't pay for healthcare, it's awfully damned expensive in the U.S. So truly something has to be done in the States such as tort reform, prohibiting a state from refusing legitimate healthcare provider from competing in a state, and getting a handle on costs (a buddy of mine was billed $7,000 for a two day hospital stay - you know his insurance company isn't going to pay $7K - why should anyone else?).

Healthcare is an issue...but the two monstrous bills proposed by the Senate and the House were not the answer.

reply to post by bowlbyville


Your story is lies.

American people believe the BS put out by Big Pharma , and Insurance.

I used to try to convince Yanks about the Can. System.

Keep being the 40th in the world in health care.

USA is no 1 ???

ya , go listen to Beck

He'll tell you what to think.

No...my story is not lies...it's quite true.

My buddy's wife (the one who had the cousin in Cannada) is a nurse practitioner here in the States...they're all originally from the UK. The cousin in Canada consulted with the my buddy's wife and that's why I know what I know (I never actually met the woman).

Find Canada's average cost for senior citizen's care and compare it to the U.S. aveage cost for senior citizen's care...I believe what you'll find is that any country with socialized medicine greatly underspends what we do in the U.S. on senior citizen care. The reason, of course, is that socialized medicine, as a function of the nation's economy, must be rationed and it becomes a function of where to put your money - on someone old and about to die or someone who "can contribute to society."

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

Corporate America won again, big insurance companies has spend more money lobbying in this campaign health care reform than any other lobbyist group in the nation, and they were only number three on lobbying power, after oil companies and big pharma.

Who won again? it was not the people.


[edit on 22-1-2010 by marg6043]

Capitalism won. Socialism lost.
Thank God!
---------------------------------------
Now the attack on capitalism has moved on to the banks.
Just another bad move by Obama.

reply to post by Connector


Read the link. Not my words.
Canadian Health Care system is imploding and you are in denial.

reply to post by bowlbyville

My buddy's wife (the one who had the cousin in Cannada) is a nurse practitioner here in the States...they're all originally from the UK. The cousin in Canada consulted with the my buddy's wife and that's why I know what I know (I never actually met the woman).

My friends 2nd cousin in the US had a client from Japan who fell ill while visiting Vancouver, Canada. He was imbibing at the National Maple Syrup Day event (NMSD www.nationalmaplesyrupday.ca) and apparently ate a tainted bearclaw. While the Scottish pipers were exciting down the stage, my friends 2nd cousins client, collapsed, tripping the igloo cake bearers, who were making their way to the Maple podium!!! It was quite a scene, making the National front page, who posed the question.....did he collapse on purpose for a more nefarious reason ??

Immediately after, they sent him to NationalToronto Hospital(via CNRail..thank god for them), they did the prerequisite beaver gallbladder oil testing and it didn't look good( ask the Chinese!) , so they placed him in Iglu isolation....not a pretty scene. BTW, off topic, beaver oil is great for digestive disorders as well Long story short, he finally was dragged outta the tundra by some sympathetic Australian Big Game hunters( rumour has it, they were internet Billionaires, i.e Micro..something ) after the locals had already placed him on the ice flow to confession his sins to the Great Baby Seal in the sky, thus heal his ailments.

8 Areoplane, 2 Heliocopter and 1 Hydrofoil rides later, my friends 2nd cousins Japanese client made it into civilized society.... Buffalo, NY, US. His SEVERE allergic reaction to bearclaws was finally diagnosed and treated, thank god. I believe, currently, he is one of the oldest living people in the world( 112yrs old ). You know them Japs seem to live longer.

Japanese Long Livers!

Anyways, the moral of the story is to do INDEPENDENT RESEARCH and STUDY the NUMBERS. On a case by case basis, anyone can make an argument for unsubstantiated information..........be a STUDENT of truth and facts.