Sick of the ignorant hate spewed about Islam because of American propaganda.

I come to ATS because there are independent thinkers here that are capable of paradigms beyond what is spoon-fed to them by CNN, FOX, MSNBC, CBS, or MSM in general.

Instead I find more and more ignorant hate mongers every day, spewing garbage about Islam. Granted, they might turn off the TV and go read some websites, but the talking points spewed forth are straight from biased, anti-Islamic websites that are also either taking quotes from the Quran out of context, or using isolated events or individuals to claim that "well, all Muslims think that way!".

Yes, some Muslims are evil men. Some are corrupt. Some beat their wives. Some commit crime. But guess what?

Some humans of any group are evil, some are corrupt, some beat their wives, and some commit crime.

They will come and say "well, I knew a Muslim and he tried to rape me, so all Muslims are evil". Um... What if a black man tried to rape you? What if a black man tried to rob you? What if it happened multiple times, by different black men? Does that mean that all black men are evil? No. It means your a racist.

They will come here and say "well, didn't you hear that they are giving 90 lashings to a 13 year old girl for bringing a cell phone to class? That means that all Muslims are evil! It's part of their religion". Um, hate to break it to you, there is no verse in the Quran that justifies whipping a girl for bringing a cell phone. It is not "part of the religion". Actually I have a friend that lives in Saudi Arabia and he says the people are against it. It is just a sick dictatorship which has made their own perverse rules.

Did Pol Pot kill millions of his people "because of his religion"? NO. He killed them because he was an evil dictator. Same for the Saudis.

They will come here and say "but Islam is a religion of conquest! If we don't control each and every Islamic country then they will all ride here on their camels and force us to convert, or kill us!". You are crazy if you believe that.

The Quran specifically states that in verse 2:256: "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."

Furthermore, the Muslims can barely even keep their own countries from falling apart. Even Iran. Even Egypt. Even Indonesia, which has more Muslims than any country in the world, and which is highly Westernized. Every single one of them is constantly on the verge of collapse do to internal struggles, not to mention severe DEBT to the IMF and World Bank. The only exception is Saudi Arabia, but their own people also hate them, and they do not have backing from the people for anything, especially an inter-continental conquest.

No Muslim nation has the money, the firepower, the will power, the manpower, or even the urge to try to take over the USA. You are delusional if you think that. Furthermore, 99.9999% of Muslims could care less if you want to convert. They could care less if you don't make it to heaven. That's your problem, not theirs.

Moreover, the USA has more guns in its nation just owned by civilians than every Muslim nation put together. We have over 200 million guns in the USA owned by civilians alone, not to mention the largest and most powerful military in the world with the largest arsenal of missiles, nuclear warheads, submarines, naval ships, trucks, helicopters, UAVs, etc. And you're scared of a rag tag team of a few camel riders with some rusty 50 year old AKs they got from the USSR? Like I said, delusional. The CIA estimates that there are only a frew hundred insurgents in all of Afghanistan, all of Iraq, all of Yemen. And guess what? Those people only care about taking back their own countries, which are under illegal occupation. They are only fighting because they were invaded.

Then they will come to this thread and say: "But these terrorists are blowing up our airplanes and caused 9/11 cause they hate America!". Um. 9/11 was an inside job. The "trouser bomber" was an inside job. Blame the neo-cons if you have to blame anybody. I'm not even gonna argue that ridiculous point that the Muslims did those terrorist attacks. You are a tool if you swallow their propaganda and lies, and hating Islam is what they want you to do. Sure, every group of humans has their crack-pots and war mongers. Look at Timothy McVeigh. Look at the Uni-bomber. Even if some Muslims are true terrorists that wants to kill Americans, that does not mean that all of them are. That only means that a few of them are. If you disagree with that, you are an ignorant racist and hate monger.

Then we will have the people that come here and support the invasion of foreign of sovereign lands and the killings of civilians because "Hey we're over there killing the BAD GUYS, of course there will be some collateral damage." That makes no sense. These "bad guys" are in their own countries, what gives the USA the authority to come into their own lands and govern what they should do?

Then they will say: "But Muslims love to treat their women like property, they make them wear Burqas to cover their face in public!". This is not even true. I have a female friend in Egypt who wears a Burqa whenever she is in public. I asked her why, and she said that because she is so devoted to the religion. I asked her if her family told her to wear it, and she said NO. She said that her family begged her NOT to start wearing a burqa. She said that burqas have actually been BANNED in Egyptian universities. She is a teacher, but said that it was impossible for her to even find a normal teaching job, because nobody would hire her because she chooses to wear a burqa. She could only get a job doing private tutoring in a private school. She says she always wears her burqa because it honors the prophet Muhammad, and she loves him. There is no other reason or external force telling her to wear it, and it is actually the OPPOSITE, as even her family strictly told her NOT TO. I also have a female friend in Indonesia that CHOOSES to wear a head scarf (hajib) out of her own conviction. She said that both burqas and headscarfs were banned from universities in Indonesia in the 1990s. They are highly discouraged still today.

"But, but, but they hate America so we need to kill 'em!" Hate to break it to you, but if you fully understood the subversive imperialist actions the US has done on about every country in the world, not to mention the undercover military operations, not to mention the actual publicly declared wars to destabilize their countries, you might not "love America" either.

Please watch this video if you want to learn more about the subversive economic actions that are used to permanently indebt countries to the IMF and World Bank, and force horrible social policies on their people, just so that they would be kept down, and the US corporations and World Bank would profit billions (literally).



In summary, I am sick of the ignorance, sick of the racism, sick of the talking points from anti-islamic propaganda which were lies and distortions in the first place, and sick of the people who spew this garbage every day.

I'm not arguing that some Muslims aren't evil people. But like I said, if you use the actions of a few to judge an entire population, you are no different than the KKK. They justify their reasons for hating blacks, as well. But their justifications are based of distortions, logical fallacies, and ignorant thinking, just like yours.

[edit on 21-1-2010 by seattletruth]

I don't hate Islam, I don't really understand it, but you have to understand some things and why most Americans don't give a ---- about Islam.

1. America was founded on Christian beliefs, the majority of people since America was formed have been Christian, so when the people of Islam move to this country and then DEMAND their beliefs and ways superseed those of the majority and founders...your going to have problems.

2. We in America are definitly not perfect, and we have people who do some dumb, VERY dumb things, but when you read about fathers killing their kids because of boys, phones, hair, make-up, etc...it sets a bad tone...now yes we have people who do this stuff to, but not at the same rate as those of Islam.

3. Americans have never been face to face with such serious people before. I mean when someone is willing to strap bombs to themselves, their kids, their friends, etc...and blow the crap out of themselves and others...that alone will make any OTHER culture say..whoa...and second guess thier true intentions...

so thats my take on it....

reply to post by seattletruth



uhhhhh . . . no.

Nothing taken out of context from the Koran.

Read page after page . . . the context itself is plenty horrid.

100+ hideously violent exhortations and instructions re what to do with Non-Muslims!!!

No amount of rationalizing works.

No thanks.

Originally posted by seattletruth
9/11 was an inside job. The "trouser bomber" was an inside job. Blame the neo-cons if you have to blame anybody. I'm not even gonna argue that ridiculous point that the Muslims did those terrorist attacks. You are a tool if you swallow their propaganda and lies, and hating Islam is what they want you to do.

I was actually sympathetic towards your post until I got to this part. Basically what you're saying right there is if I believe that a few idiots who happened to be Muslim hijacked our planes, then I'm a tool who apparently hates all of Islam. In my mind they were idiots first, Muslims second. I don't buy the inside job nonsense. If that makes me a tool, so be it.

The way I see it, I am completely capable of hating those who do idiotic things such as hijack planes, whip teenage girls over cell phones, and call for my death because I happen to be American, without hating all Muslims. Every religion has it's fanatics, and there are indeed some who are Muslim fanatics who would love nothing more than to see the US wiped off the face of the earth. Doesn't make all of them that way, but there are enough of them who are to have gotten some attention. It's not racist, especially since last I checked Muslim isn't a race, it's not propaganda, and it's not spewing garbage to point that out.

reply to post by rcwj1975


1 -- Please specify some of these "demands" that are made by Muslims who move here, for USA to change. The Muslims who move here simply want to make money and have a better life. Isn't that the American dream? Just because they still keep their culture and clothing, doesn't mean that they want you to change. They simply want to live their lives. If looking at them wearing different clothing hurts your feelings too bad, and makes you feel like you should change your clothing, then maybe that's a personal problem.

2 -- There have been a few acts by Muslim parents killing their kids, but there are countless more acts by naturalized Americans that kill their kids every year. No joke. Parents of every race, creed, and religion sometimes turn out to be psychos. You only seem to recognize the Muslim ones, and focus on those.

3 -- Name one suicide bombing that has happened on American turf. Look at if from their standpoint: the US army comes in and bombs the crap out of their own country, sets up illegally occupied bases, destroys their government and patrols their streets with armed soldiers. What if that happened to YOUR land? Wouldn't you want to fight back? And whats the most effective way for them to fight back? Suicide bombing. The founding fathers of our own country did the same thing, but instead of using bombs they lined up huge lines of men with muskets that were ready to die at the hands of the British occupation.

If someone invaded your country and illegally occupied it, would you be ready to die for the sake of sovereignty? Like I said, there have been no suicide bombings on US soil. They have their own problems to worry about, in their own countries.

Sorry, they are all radicals who would kill if you aren't the same religion as them.

I guess I am ignorant. Sorry.

Well this is going to be a hot topic.
In response to you, I am going to state that no country is perfect. However, this is what is seen and known:
You say that the west hates Islam due to the propaganda spewed by the west:
1) How about the Muinch Olympics, I guess that was Mossad that broke in, diguised as palistines to kill their own people? No, or how about:
Liybia supporting the hijacking of an airliner and then trying to take on the US Navy with military force?
I suppose the people who were taken as hostage in Iran, theatened to be killed every day during the Iranian revolution were really guests of that country and got a fair shake? Or how about the 3 hikers that are being held currently in Iran, I guess they really are CIA spies?
2) I guess blowing up a world heritage site is justifiable? Or the systematic looting of a country all in the name of supporting an oppresive regiem?
3) Or better yet, how about that school in Virginia, you know the one that is supported by the Saudia Government, the one where the first known American Muslim Terrorist graduated from?
Or how about me neighbors who are muslim, who think I am evil cause I own a dog and let the children of the neighborhood pet and play with him, cause I want his socialize and not bite people? Or how about them same neighbors who despise me cause I eat pork, or won't bag my groceries cause I am purchasing pork sausage or try to force their belief down my throat. Personally I don't really care what a person believes in, but I do care when it leads to violence towards another, and when it is done in the name of religion, then it only makes a person pause and think that maybe this is not a peaceful religion.

reply to post by sdcigarpig


Man I would be careful. Make sure your neighbor doesn't walk up to you and shoot you. I would be scared!

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by seattletruth

 

uhhhhh . . . no.

Nothing taken out of context from the Koran.

Read page after page . . . the context itself is plenty horrid.

100+ hideously violent exhortations and instructions re what to do with Non-Muslims!!!

No amount of rationalizing works.

No thanks.

100+? Please enlighten me. I read the whole thing, and found most of the violence was only talked about in the chapter on RULES FOR WARFARE. At least it has rules listed. The Quran only justifies violence against non-believers in the context of SELF DEFENSE. If you dont believe me, I challange you to quote not just one verse of the Quran, but the whole section referring to violence against non-believers, and you will see that the Quran clearly only justifies SELF DEFENSE.

Originally posted by seattletruth
1 -- Please specify some of these "demands" that are made by Muslims who move here, for USA to change. The Muslims who move here simply want to make money and have a better life. Isn't that the American dream? Just because they still keep their culture and clothing, doesn't mean that they want you to change. They simply want to live their lives. If looking at them wearing different clothing hurts your feelings too bad, and makes you feel like you should change your clothing, then maybe that's a personal problem.

-Foot bath stalls in all airports, schools, transportation terminals, and other public venues...
Well if they need this done, THEY can pay for it. Don't expect my tax dollars to pay for something your used to BACK HOME! And don't think that a business, agency, or government building should be obligated to install them even if you pay for them.

-Demanding they be allowed to pray 5 times a day during a normal work day...

Sorry, but welcome to America and putting in 60 hours a week, some quick breaks, and a lunch. Outside of that, NO employer should have to make SPECIAL arrangments for you. It's unfair to your co-workers as well.

-Demand that Islam not be made fun of like other religions are in our comics, cartoons, etc...

Again, here in America we have FREEDOM OF SPEECH and that means Islam, Allah, Muhammad, and any Muslim can be made fun of, JUST like us Christians, Catholics, etc...

And the list goes on...

My issue isn't with them wanting to wear their clothing, live their culture, and be proud...that is fine. But when your culture refuses to assimilate and understand that they are NOT in the Middle East anymore, your going to have issues. If you want foot baths, pay for them and have them installed. You want women only building (like at Harvard), then cough up the 30 million bucks and I am sure we can arrange it for you....but stop the BS when it comes to expecting US to cater to you...

2 -- There have been a few acts by Muslim parents killing their kids, but there are countless more acts by naturalized Americans that kill their kids every year. No joke. Parents of every race, creed, and religion sometimes turn out to be psychos. You only seem to recognize the Muslim ones, and focus on those.

Here is the thing...there are a TON of incidents where fathers killed their kids because of Islamic rule, and the reasons behind the killings just make no sense to your average American. When someone over here kills their kids, its usually because they are cracked out or mentally unstable. Over there we have fathers running over their own daughters with the family car because she dressed to "western"! Or stoning her to death for looking at a british boy the wrong way. No matter how you debate it, when you look at it from a NON islamic way, people in general are going to be like...WTF!!!

3 -- Name one suicide bombing that has happened on American turf. Look at if from their standpoint: the US army comes in and bombs the crap out of their own country, sets up illegally occupied bases, destroys their government and patrols their streets with armed soldiers. What if that happened to YOUR land? Wouldn't you want to fight back? And whats the most effective way for them to fight back? Suicide bombing. The founding fathers of our own country did the same thing, but instead of using bombs they lined up huge lines of men with muskets that were ready to die at the hands of the British occupation.

Its not about the bombing happening here, its the fact it would happen anywhere that makes Americans take a step back. Most people will never go to the Middle East, they won't fully get the idea of why people strap 4lbs of C4 to their chest, walk into a crowded food market, scream Allah kicks butt and activates the trigger....the thought of suicide just won't click over here....especially in a WAR...In American minds we want the muslims who appose us being there to put on uniforms and fight...may the best man win kinda thing.

If someone invaded your country and illegally occupied it, would you be ready to die for the sake of sovereignty? Like I said, there have been no suicide bombings on US soil. They have their own problems to worry about, in their own countries.

Of course I would...but I wouldn't kill 100 of my own just to get 1 or 2 of them. And i sure as hell wouldn't blow myself into peices...but the point is, its not about it happening on US soil, its about the idea in general that makes other people NOT want to associate with Muslims.

I am sure there are fantastic muslim people who practice Islam and are truly the types of people I would love to meet. I think where muslims go wrong is...none of them speak out against their fellow idiots. I mean there are a ton of them who live here now, call the U.S. home, yet won't condone the actions of those making it hard on others to actually assimilate the way they want too. If they did that, they would be shocked to see how much support they would get from not only Americans, but the world in general...

[edit on 1/22/2010 by rcwj1975]

oops sorry..double post...

[edit on 1/22/2010 by rcwj1975]

and a third....

[edit on 1/22/2010 by rcwj1975]

Of all the carnage caused and carried out by muslims, I don't believe i have EVER heard representatives/leaders of the muslim faith speak out against it...that implies that the behavior of the "few" are supported by the main-stream.

We have crazy, fanatics here, too...but we speak out against if if they do not represent the whole. The muslim leader's silence is the most telling.

Regardless of what you think it may be, what is presented for the world to see is a bunch of primitive, fanatic, cruel, woman hating, freedom fearing fanatics that put bombs in their underwear and up their anus to please a god who is telling them to kill the infidel...the infidel being non-muslims.

To kill in "self-defense" can be interpreted in many way...whatever is convenient...self-defense apparently is killing all who are not of the faith in defense of the faith....

it is a very primitive belief system and is probably why the eastern world which was once the cradle of math and astronomy, the cradle of civilization has lost all ground and gone backward instead of forward.

Religion used as a control or battering ram cripples any society.

reply to post by rcwj1975

1. America was founded on Christian beliefs, the majority of people since America was formed have been Christian, so when the people of Islam move to this country and then DEMAND their beliefs and ways superseed those of the majority and founders...your going to have problems.

2. We in America are definitly not perfect, and we have people who do some dumb, VERY dumb things, but when you read about fathers killing their kids because of boys, phones, hair, make-up, etc...it sets a bad tone...now yes we have people who do this stuff to, but not at the same rate as those of Islam.

3. Americans have never been face to face with such serious people before. I mean when someone is willing to strap bombs to themselves, their kids, their friends, etc...and blow the crap out of themselves and others...that alone will make any OTHER culture say..whoa...and second guess thier true intentions...

-------

1.There's no one demanding anything. You are making up your own beliefs based on assumptions and not facts.

2.There are murderers in all parts of the world, and there's some VERY crazy ones living in America. Go look at all of the famous serial killers almost 90% are from America. I'm talking people that hacked people into pieces and ate them.

3.Someone strapping an explosive to themselves and a U.S. soldier entering an Iraqi house and raping then murdering the kids and parents are BOTH psycho. Stop playing the blame game.

You are making excuses to rationalize your assumptions which are not facts.

reply to post by sdcigarpig


You are also playing the blame game.

How about 9/11 where the people in the white house killed 3,000 people of their own countrymen so that they could make a quick buck?

How about Israel stagings false flags ALL over the world, so that they can play the "victim" card?

This is not a one sided thing, all sides are guilty, and at the current moment the U.S. is the GUILTIEST of them all because it is invading many countries under the pre-text of "war on terror" when in reality it's a bunch of Bankers making quick bucks.

Do you even believe in the U.S. anymore? I mean let's face it, what happened to the constitution? It got thrown out the window and now America is a Democracy which is NOT freedom.

America WAS a Constitutional Republic NOT a Democracy. This is a lie that is played on the American populace to get them to support MANY wars for PROFIT.

reply to post by wiseone11


You know more people have died in the name of Christianity than any other religion in the world right?

And what do you mean the leaders are silenced about the violence? Of course, you'll hear that from CNN, but if you actually look at foreign media they are ALWAYS talking about how they condemn the attacks, and feel sorry for the victims.

Stop watching CNN.

reply to post by rcwj1975


There's no freedom of speech in America.

Go and say something about Bush at a restaurant and have CIA show up at your house, oh wait, that happened to the guy that DID say something to BUSH, and the CIA DID show up at his house.

Freedom of speech, get real guy.

Many people are protesting the healthcare and does the Obama administration care? NO!

They bailout their rich buddies because they all bow down to Zionism.

reply to post by Jenna


I read your first sentence where you said you believe 9/11 was NOT an inside job, and I stopped right there.

Anyone who still believes the official story of 9/11 that was said 9 years ago needs to REALLY brighten up. I'm saying this very politely too.

Cave men infiltrated one of the most advanced nations on earth and created wars that brought down the ENTIRE american nation? Oh really, if that's the case then what are the BILLIONS we are spending on defense for if they can't even prevent things such as that?

Do you really think they take the BILLIONS and use it for defense? Wow....just wow....

Originally posted by seattletruth
What if a black man tried to rape you? What if a black man tried to rob you? What if it happened multiple times, by different black men? Does that mean that all black men are evil? No. It means your a racist.

So, if you're robbed or raped by multiple black men it makes you a racist?

reply to post by DirtyPete


Yes, then you are a racist.

You can't blame the entire race of people based on their color just because a few morons raped you.

Does that seriously need to be explained?