U.S. Marine 'I Killed Innocent Civilians'

I watched a film last night called Stop-Loss - re: iraq war

I don't know how accurate it was but I thought it was well done
in terms of depicting the guilt in killing the innocent and protecting your men - if you are in charge.

The main point of the story though was to show how these kids come back to deal with their lives - and then (no matter what shape they are in) are sent back to serve again and again.

The waste of so many lives -

Originally posted by SassyCat

Originally posted by projectvxn
As someone about to enter the service, all I can say is that I have no sympathy for this man. He's a murderer. I'm a warrior, I go where the fight is.

You are ordered to destroy an approaching car because it looks suspicious to your unskilled superior, you find out it was just civilians with children, you get addicted to anti psychotics. You then tell someone your story and he tells you "You're a murderer. I'm a warrior, I go where the fight is"

.

If I commited a crime like this I WOULD HOPE SO. I'd expect to be held accountable for my actions.

reply to post by Tifozi


I thank you for your service, and for your intelligent posts, that do not put out a blanket statement condemning all military personell..
I am a combat vet. I was a U.S. Cavalry Scout. I served with several elite units, 101 air assault, 82nd airborne, 2nd btn. 75th rangers.

one of my jobs was to locate, and identify enemy troops and equipment. then to communicate my findings. most of the time I was NOT to engage. But as in life in general, sometimes things don't go as planned.

I however was fortunate in the fact that in both cases that I was deployed, I was fighting against uniformed regulated militaries. I.E. not insurgents,or guerilla fighters.. I could easily distinguish between "the enemy" and civilians.
Yet still there were "civilian" casualties. (fortunately not caused by myself nor anyone in my troop) as well as "friendly fire" casualties.
I am not trying to excuse theese incidents, nor be indifferant to them. At the time I was horrified to learn about the civilian deaths, I could not comprehend how it could happen. But alas, the military is made up of individual humans, who are capable of making mistakes, as well as just being callous, or plain evil.
With that being said, I still believe that the majority of soldiers are good people. But just like in the "real world" the "bad apples" and the "squeaky wheels" get the majority of the media attention.
Again, this is not meant to excuse civilian casualties, But it is very difficult for a person to live in fear of dying 24/7 and still function 100% rationally. without screwing up.
(getting too long, so will shut up now.. LOL)

reply to post by rainfall


What he did, and what he has to live with, is not something I would want to endure.

i am unable to serve my country in a military way.
(rib resection due to Histiocytosis X)

I AM one of the people meant to do this type of JOB! please remember that the men and woman who sign up know that there will be CASUALTIES.
I am TEXAN and a patriot more so!
I understand that the draft was something different, but we don't have that and people are still complaining about fighting. war is a necessary evil that just won't go away as long as there are people living on the earth. its human nature to fight and battle. animals also fight for territory and when it comes to mating.

THANK YOU TO ALL VETERANS AND ACTIVE DUTY!!!!
i have friends there still!!!

I am a gun totin.. america loving.. logical thinkin.. free spirited..watchin the government cause their watchin me..free speech actavist,though i love shootin #..kind of person that should be there fighting for those that do not wish to do so!!

thanks for reading!!!

[edit on 22-1-2010 by thatJESTERjustin]

reply to post by Tifozi


I wouldn't participate in this thread just to avoid being called "anti-american" or whatever but since you're european i see no problem arguing with you.

There are punishments for the ones who don't follow orders,definatelly.It still is up to the soldier though to make the decision: Be part of the invasion,maybe kill a few civillians (accidently or not) and be called a murderer or dissobey and be punished?
You say that those soldiers should be supported because they chose to follow orders to avoid being punished,so,what is there to support?That they chose to invade and kill for their own sake?
If someone wants to do that,fair enough but he has to take the responsibility of it and accept that it's his fault,that he could do otherwise and he didn't.Just like the one who'll dissobey.Dissobey but accept whatever is coming for you.


Would you kill an innocent person to benefit your own self?

For whatever reason most soldiers are a representation of society and in this case the display is that of a courageous and truthful soldier that had to do things because of the situation someone else placed on him. He clearly is of a type of American that knows first hand how right and wrong can be redefined in states of conflict. Overall, I recognize him as a decent human being dealing with the horrors of war. His pain is visible to anyone.

That being said, I only wanted to add that if you paid attention to his story, current doctrine allows for entire buildings to be taken down as a means of suppressing the enemy using the building. Civilians deaths have been defined as "collateral damage" and of course that doesn't mean a thing to those that lost their families and their homes.

He mentioned that initially a specific city area area would blocked off while missions were developed to go into specific areas looking for what he was told was the enemy. The enemy hides among the citizens because he is one too. He is also the type of enemy that has banned with others of like mind to defend to the death, their lives, the lives of their families and their property and possessions. Add their fear over religious persecution and you should be able to see that from their position, they are the freedom fighters protecting everything noble and worth fighting for.

They are protecting their nation from an invading foreign army. If that isn't enough reason to see them fighting then there are plenty of other reasons why they will fight with what little they have for what they value. No matter the comparison to Americans doing the same thing for the same reasons, this video really made me think.

If America ever goes radical and has to defend itself, it will be against these same kind of military tactics as described by this soldier. We have already seen after Waco that women and children mean nothing to those that are intent on using Delta forces to go in and assassinate the key men leaders and anyone that might have crossed their path while looking for those that were targeted for death. Then they set fire to the building and claim they set the fire themselves. Anyway, now we see and have confirmation that they will destroy an entire apartment complex just to stop the shooting that may be coming from a few men hiding in side the building.

Overall I am glad I took the time to view this video, but I would be lying if I said it didn't upset me in the ways that war stories can remind one of the true understanding of struggling for your life and if successful dealing with the deaths that occurred in order for you to survive.

Everyone saying he shouldn't blame himself? Please. He had choices.

He chose to enlist- selective service isn't active.

He chose to follow orders knowing he would kill civilians- this should be a chilling reminder that if something happens on our own soil in the U.S. our armies will kill their neighbors (but with probably less remose).

He chose to blind himself to reality.

Oooh poor solider, awwww, you chose to go overseas and kill people, you chose to blind yourself to reality, and you chose to follow orders knowing the outcome. Awwww boo hoo!

Everyone supporting his grief is an enabler. You're the sort of people who have that "well it happens OVER THERE, and never in my backyard, not to me" mentality. Tragic wastes the lot.

I'll support our troops as individuals, but I won't support their sorrow, their fear, their hate- they had a choice. If they did not know, or even conceive of certain scenarios then they blinded themselves. I will not enable- it goes nowhere. I will point out the facts and hope these people can find some resolution.

I support our troops, not the war. The war is not getting anywhere, and we have been trying to fight them for 8 years. The troops are getting killed every day because of a pointless holy war on terror. we have been retaliating for 8 years now, it is time for a NEW stategy

reply to post by DracoMama


DracoMama, I also abhor this war and the profiteers who put our finest in harms way. I also believe we need a military but I'm curious about................

"I do not believe that we should allow our elected officials to send our brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, friends and lovers off to fight wars that are based on lies or greed"

Our elected officials are the only one's that can send our finest off to war so, how will we know their motives. I agree with your thought but we are Representative Republic. We elect those that we feel will represent our personal beliefs and enforce our laws. Unfortunately many don't once they are in office so I raise the question; how will we ever know their true motives until war is waged? Finding out after war is waged is too late.

Peace.........yak055h

So this guy claims he was involved or participated in atrocities while in Iraq?
Why am I not surprised? They were fighting a counter-insurgency where the enemy blends in with the general population, and mistaken identity is only natural in that climate of fear. Why is he making a public statement and putting his fellow Marines under increased scrutiny and ridicule as they continue to wage war? No one should participate in atrocities, but war brings out the worst in all.

He should keep his guilt to himself until combat operations seize. His fellow Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen don't need to face the crowds that veterans of Vietnam had to go through when they returned. Some of his buddies may be in harms way as he speaks, and he is doing a disservice to them, ridiculing them as they continue to put themselves in harms way.

Now, ridicule of the war in Iraq has been at the forefront of debate since its inception. The debate is healthy, but it doesn't sit well with me when former service members comment on their own as the war continues. Could these bleeding hearts have an ulterior motive, with their new found outrages with the war they participated in? Sometimes I wonder? When the final rifle goes silent and the last bird lands at home, then reflect and recollect in public forums about personal involvement in a given military conflict. In my opinion, commenting now, lacks class, and is detrimental to those still fighting abroad. If there are complaints, by all means, blame the politicians, because they are who are responsible for waging war.

"War is hell." General William Tecumsah Sherman

[edit on 22-1-2010 by Jakes51]

Originally posted by rainfall
I've noticed that none of my 'pro-military' buddies have commented on this thread...?..... hmmmmm

I dunno, maybe because your "I hate the American Military" thread are some weak sh*t??

Just saying.

Innocents do get killed. This has happened since the dawn of time and man decided to go to war. It sucks, but it happens. The object is to limit civilian casualities.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


The statement "Its War" clearly gets people upset, and I can understand why it would

It IS hard to finally stop living in denial and realize that the human race is imperfect.

At this point, we have so much invested in the armed forces, its not as easy as just "laying down your weapons and coming home." Think about the ramifications for our country if this cease fire did take place. Think about how bad our unemployment would be with close to a million people suddenly looking for jobs. Think about how many countries hate Americans for a myriad of reasons. Do we expect that if we put down our guns the rest of the world would do the same? Isnt that being a little arrogant and unrealistic?

I understand how so many people have a hard time with the US Military being overseas. No one likes to imagine their friends and neighbors in harms way for unclear reasons. But, I truly feel that the day we stop going around bullying and hunting for other thugs ( who want to kill innocent american people as well as their own people ), our country will cease to exist as we know it. I didnt make it this way, and neither did any soldier. But when you join the military you take an oath to uphold the US constitution and to defend the civilians from harm stateside or otherwise. Who do you people think you would cry for if something happened here like what happened in Haiti? Sure, tell the soldiers to put down their guns, I can promise you the criminals in this country never will.

Its not about who has the biggest stick, its about who isn't afraid to swing it.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by WhiteDevil013]

Several Americans I know have joined and are joining the military. They do this not by choice, but it is the only job they can get to feed their children.

Originally posted by Faiol
HAHAHAHHA WHAT A JOKE
its war ?

I mean REALLY, its war?

they dont have 1 % of the weapons/power that the US army have.

Sorry, Gus. That's a lame point to take in this discussion. It's not like they have spears and we are nuking them. The whole idea of war is to defeat the enemy, limit civlian casualities, and bring your own people back in one piece.

A massacre is when an insurgent sets off a bomb in a market crowded with women and children.

Originally posted by Faiol
I really hate these americans that really dont know anything about it ... its shameful you talk about war ... I will repeat since most of u dont understand, its not war

And you're basing your opinion on what military experiences of yours, Xbox??

voters and politicians are to blame not soldiers but u also dont kill civies if u know they are civies

[edit on 22-1-2010 by walsbg22]

Originally posted by capgirl
I hope that poor man gets help in what he went through.

Umm.

Am I the only one who's thinking of the innocent people that he killed? It's like people hear that phrase so often they don't understand the reality of what it implies anymore.

No, apparently he's thinking about what he did too so I don't guess I'm alone after all.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by bsbray11]

These are naive kids who don't have many other choices for employment or opportunities for education at a university. Soldiers don't write foreign policy, politicians do.

////

Two men, an Iraqi politician and an American politician are sitting in a room. The American has a baseball bat. The two men begin to argue about American foreign policy and soon a heated argument begins. Eventually the American stands up and hits the Iraqi across the head with the baseball bat, knocking him to the ground.

Do you blame the bat or the politician?

Oh, my, word.

"It's war"

"Bad stuff happens"

I'm officially done with this site, at least for a damn long time. There is too much ignorance and simpleton crap for me to handle. I had faith in this community, but something is seriously wrong here.

I'd venture to say that the community is now completely evil and ignorant. Only a slave or citizen of a despot state would say crap like this. That somehow, "It's war, you can't take reality." passes for okay in the 21st century of a modern nation. The US unfortunately deserves *everything* that's coming to it.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by SyphonX]

Originally posted by rainfall
I've noticed that none of my 'pro-military' buddies have commented on this thread...?..... hmmmmm

The truth has a way of silencing some people...

Give peace a chance...

The truth has a way of silencing some people? The truth is that the people who have been there don't always feel the need to come out here and respond to every anti-war post you make. I know what I have done. I know what's going on over there, first hand. I don't feel the need to constantly log on to a message board to counter every picture, article or video that you happen to come across.

You can spend all day finding videos which support your agenda.

I could make videos countering the ones you post; and I would be more than qualified to do so.

My point being, just because those in the know don't come running to your thread, don't assume that they are being silenced. It's more than possible that we just don't feel like making the effort to explain our lives today.