U.S. Marine 'I Killed Innocent Civilians', page 4

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reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 11:40 AM by stephanies-chase

reply to post by dgtempe
[mo

You make it sound so nonchalant........."it's war." Like those innocent people didn't matter...it's just a part of "war." I suppose you would feel the same way if it was your innocent family that was killed? No you wouldn't. You would be angry. I'm sure you couldn't fathom what that would be like. People do matter, and it is a HUGE deal that innocent people are getting killed, and for what? Next time you make a comment you should think about what you are saying. I'm embarrassed for you

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 11:54 AM by HappilyEverAfter

Originally posted by projectvxn
As someone about to enter the service, all I can say is that I have no sympathy for this man. He's a murderer. I'm a warrior, I go where the fight is. An old lady bringing food is not where the fight is. I hope he gets arrested and the rest of his buddies too.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by projectvxn]

With all due respect you do realize it WILL NOT be like it is the brochure, and where you end up geographically will be a dice roll, and luck is going to be your best buddy. You will do yourself well to abandon any preconceived ideas of how it's going to be and simply do your best to make it back home. If you ever find yourself smoking a cigarette talking to a fellow who's sliding down a hillside holding the hole you just blew in his neck, and you tell him its nothing personal, know that youre not the first, and you are where the fight is, and you still need to get home.
Dont run you'll only die tired.
Good Luck

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 11:57 AM by DracoMama

Gah, I only joined this site to post in the UFO conspiracy section! But, I feel strongly compelled comment on this topic.

I have a hard time with the "It's war" attitude as well.

There is a radio documentary that I think should be heard by anyone who truly does respect the gravity of the sacrifice our soldiers offer. It should be mandatory listening for those who are armchairing it for both sides of the argument:

What Killed Sgt. Gray?

Part of respecting what they do for us is ensuring that we don't take their sacrifice lightly. I believe we need a military. I believe we should defend ourselves. I do not believe that we should allow our elected officials to send our brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, friends and lovers off to fight wars that are based on lies or greed.

Let me ask: what makes America greater? Our ability to "get the bad guys" or our respect for the lives of those who would die to defend us? Saying "it's just war" is the BIGGEST slap in the face of those who are out there fighting.

I have been very close to people who have come back from these conflicts. I saw and physically felt the ramifications of war-induced PTSD. I have seen how war has brutalized a man who otherwise had a beautiful soul and kind heart. I saw how war and the lack of VA resources back home affected his (blood) brother-in-arms to the point of suicide.

It's not just war. That is a horribly, ugly statement.

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 11:58 AM by freighttrain

This one man... has woken up! It's not like I don't want to be sympathetic to this man, but... he "CHOSE" to join army.

In this country (unlike many others in middle east), you are "FREE to CHOOSE" and so if you join a corrupt organization you deserves what you gets.

At least this ONE man just like many other has woken up and that in itself is blessing. More and more will wake up, but hopefully "before" joining this SNIP* organisation that supposedly there to defend us... where infact it's ONLY purpose is to destroy others for pure profit for the old constipated pices of SNIP* that run it.

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 12:02 PM by Tifozi

reply to post by rainfall

I'm not asking any of you to support murder, injustice, nor any kind of crime against a human being.

What I'm asking you, is to support the human being behind the M16 and behind the uniform. Many of them are forced to act under orders, and the endless debate about orders is useless...

It's easy to judge someone behind a keyboard. But after you enlist, you get punishments for not doing your end of the contract (and it is a contract).

It's SAD what some soldiers endure so that they don't ruin their lifes.

THAT is the kind of support I'm asking from people to soldiers.

Any of us will ask to be forgiven after realizing a mistake.

How come everyone is so hypocrit by NOT forgiving someone who fell in the trap of armed forces, and was manipulated to commit crimes?

I'm not asking to anyone to be nice to a GI.Joe who kills a kid and laughs. I'm not asking to support any GI joe who kills civilians and says "hey, s*** happens, its war, collateral damage baby!".

The people who need support are the ones who are faced with the trauma of killing and commiting crimes under a statement that they believe in, and after all, it's just propaganda.

I lost count on how many soldiers (americans, I'm from Europe, I was in a Joint Force unit) said "I was here because of 9/11. I though I was here defending my family, and the world from fear, but after all I'm guarding a oil tanker".

[edit on 22/1/10 by Tifozi]

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 12:21 PM by Faiol

Originally posted by dgtempe
My marine husband had to kill innocent people in Viet Nam.

Its war.

HAHAHAHHA WHAT A JOKE
its war ?

I mean REALLY, its war?

they dont have 1 % of the weapons/power that the US army have

so really, dont $¨%¨talk about WAR, this is not war, this is a massacre

MASSACRE, its not war ... just use $%$ math ...

I really hate these americans that really dont know anything about it ... its shameful you talk about war ... I will repeat since most of u dont understand, its not war

[edit on 22-1-2010 by Faiol]

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 12:27 PM by Tifozi

reply to post by Redneck from Hell

where did I say it was accident? It isn't accident, THAT's the problem.

You're aiming at a guy who doesn't deserve to be killed (EVEN if he does, this comes to your mind) and you question yourself if you're doing the right thing.

this happens after you realize that you're being manipulated. But if you do not obbey, your life will become fubar.

So you get into a dilema, that most soldiers can't find a way out. Most keep doing what they are ordered untill end duty, and then things happen like the did with this guy. they cry, scream and ask everyone around them to PLEASE forgive their mistakes.

There are cases, and cases. Some people are just murderers and must be treated as such. But I already realized that people simply generalize and put stickers on people.

"A soldier is a baby killer".

And YES, SOME ARE. Some are monsters. I was in court for not going throw with an order. But I was lucky, I had good people on my side, the truth was with me, and it was a wrong order.

But I have a good rank, I have experience and I was in a elite unit. Does an average army soldier have that? NO! If they raise their voices, they are punished.

And don't be mistaken about orders and how the military works. This things are sad and bring pain, but this only happens because it's an unfair and unjustified war.

You're here, on this website, giving YOUR FREE opinion, because someone in the past was following the order "Attack!".

The scenario changed, and now you (US) have a governament that is filthy and immoral.

But again, don't put everyone on the same bag.

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 12:31 PM by shortywarn

Originally posted by dgtempe
My marine husband had to kill innocent people in Viet Nam.

Its war.

yes,, but that's not a pass on why,,,,, and why are we in war,,,, is it justified.

i don't blame em and they must do what they have to,,, but i won't be ignorant enuff to not ask why they're there killing people

is it warranted and justified,,, and it's a big no,,, and bush cheney should be being waterboarded

and no i dislike obama as well,,,,,, vote third party

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 12:33 PM by banegame

reply to post by projectvxn

Big words for a man whose got so little. Anyone ready to join our military years after this conflict started, is missing something in their life. Be it friends, family, money or a soul. You are the ideal of the mentality that creates such monsters. You are the weak minded individual who will go in so certain of himself, and come out crying like a baby because you too were faced with difficult decisions. War is not an Xbox 360 game, it's the end of everything for many involved.

You are a goddamn fool! I am judgmental of you because your words are hollow and I hope you take the first bullet for condemning the courageous efforts of these men to open a fools eyes. How naive of you to think you reserve the right. Once you are there, warrior or 'female dog', you too will be faced with orders that make no sense. Decisions that seem simple in the heat of battle, and once the dust settles, that same bag of groceries will be lying at your feet.

Believe me, you are one less person I want to have breathing my air! So thankfully your ignorance will be dealt with in a manner equal to your ignorance.

"you must have committed great sin, or a punishment such as war would not have been put upon you".

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 12:34 PM by Faiol

Originally posted by ANNED
Has anyone validated that this guy is a Iraqi war veteran and was where he claims and is for real.

After Vietnam we had a lot of fakes claiming to have been involved in killing Innocent Civilians that later turned out to never have been in Vietnam and some that never were even in the military.

many of them were with John Kerry's group, Vietnam Veterans Against the War.
vietnam-veterans.us...
www.pownetwork.org...
www.stolenvalor.com...
blog.usni.org...
www.pownetwork.org...

ARE U FREAKING KIDDING ME

are u saying that no innocent people are being killed ???? IS THAT what u are saying?

man ... its impossible to not kill innocent people, they dont have any place to go

it doesnt matter if the guy is lying or not, what matters is the message, this is not war, this is a massacre

I am not saying that the soldiers are bad and they kill on purpose, the problem is that, thats what happens, because they have lives too, so they kill every living thing to conquer a position, so, most of the time he doesnt even know what he killed ...

but that doesnt make it right ... this massacre has to end ... 9-11 was a joke, until today no one said nothing about, until today no one knows what really happened, and to see some people support it, its shameful and I really hope that theres no god, because if there were a judgment after life, well, a lot of people would be punished for being ignorant and supporting blindly these massacres

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 12:44 PM by earthdude

Soldiers that speak out about doing this get condemned and death threats for being honest and guilt-ridden. Soldiers that enjoyed doing this get a medal. This is a strange world we live in.

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 01:07 PM by projectvxn

reply to post by banegame

I've been a warrior all my life. As I said, I go where the fight is. You do not know me or my motivations. No one ordered this Marine to kill a woman carrying food, he did it anyway. That's not the Warriors Code I lived by since I was a child, that's murder. You can be as judgemental as you'd like sir, but be assured that you know absolutely dick about me.

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 01:15 PM by projectvxn

reply to post by HappilyEverAfter

Why is it that people assume to know what my motivations are? You think that because I'm putting on the uniform that I must conform to criminal activity just because the other guys do too? I have no preconceived notions of combat sir, Ive been there Ive had to fight for my life and much more up close and personal than putting a bullet through a mans neck at a few hundred yards. This isn't my first walk in the park.

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 01:15 PM by ProUSA

War is a tragedy.

The killing of innocent civilians is never a good thing, in any circumstance. However, sometimes it's necessary.

But don't get me wrong, sometimes it's not necessary at all, by any means.

And by necessary, I don't mean innocent people deserve to die. God no. But I do mean sometimes in order for our troops to live, they have to.

If anyone has heard the story of Operation Redwing, they will understand exactly what I mean.

For those who haven't, here's a short summary...

Four Navy SEALs were dropped behind enemy lines in the Kunar province in Afghanistan. While surveying the mountains in a secluded position, some local Pashtun goat herders stumbled upon them. The team debated for a considerable amount of time whether to kill them or let them live. They knew letting them live might be their end; the herders could go report their position to the Taliban. Against their better judgment, they let them go. No more than an hour later they were ambushed by 200 Taliban fighters from 3 angles. Three of the SEALs were killed, along with 8 more (I think) when they tried to rescue the lone SEAL still alive.

So, as one can see. These guys didn't want to kill the herders. They knew they were innocent. But in reality, they probably should have.

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 01:15 PM by rainfall

I've noticed that none of my 'pro-military' buddies have commented on this thread...?..... hmmmmm

The truth has a way of silencing some people...

YouTube Link

Give peace a chance...

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 01:19 PM by projectvxn

reply to post by ProUSA

I also understand that you can't always protect innocent life. Getting caught in the crossfire is a part of going to war. But this mans explanation made it seem almost like wanton killing, and I cannot condone that.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by projectvxn]

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 01:27 PM by earthdude

I like to think that if someone invaded my country that there would no longer be any civilians. We would all unite to fight the enemy. What constitutes a civilian anyway. Old ladies can carry groceries one day and land mines the next. Invade a country and your going to kill people who don't like what you have done. You can call them all soldiers or civilians if you want. It is the invading and killing that is wrong.

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 01:28 PM by ProUSA

reply to post by projectvxn

Well I agree, I don't condone innocent killing with no real point.

My main point was that war is messy. It's not pretty, it's not glamorous. Everyone knows this. And good, innocent people die in war. Not because they deserved to, but because it is WAR.

reply posted on 22-1-2010 @ 01:29 PM by The_Zomar