President General Andrew Jackson: ATS Idol

Originally posted by Dogdish

He fought for our independence.

He fought over stolen land. Great job.
You guys must be proud.

Firstly, I would dare any country to attempt to prove they don't exist on stolen land, or have not practiced slavery in on form or another.
It's clear you, EndoftheWorld7 have a racial and religious bias, one that is affecting your objectivity on matters.

Your own links that you are using to support your points of view, contradict your opinions as you are presenting them.

I don't see anything about him being a Freemason or Jew, either. As a matter of fact:
"Since he was not from a distinguished family, he had to make his career by his own merits; soon he began to prosper in the rough-and-tumble world of frontier law."

www.pagrandlodge.org...

All records indicate he was a Prebyterian.

The past and the present were very different times. Just keep in mind, murdering and war were considered great at that time. Although now, it's not, but you people can't compare different times and places. Back then, Jackson was probably one of the greatest people of all times, killing people for benefits, but now it's considered wrong. See how differently people thought then and now? Think before you type, and pick your words carefully, before insulting one of the greatest presidents on earth.

I think I will stand by the following great American to explain my thoughts on the Trail of Tears....

"I have Indian Blood in me. I have just enough white blood for you to question my honesty!"
Will Rogers aka "The Cherokee Kid"

Originally posted by RuneSpider

It's clear you, EndoftheWorld7 have a racial and religious bias, one that is affecting your objectivity on matters.

And promoting a racist slave owner President isn't bias?

How is this any different than teaching kids in school how great Columbus was for killing and enslaving millions and celebrating Columbus day and Thanksgiving?

If you are Native, Hispanic or Black you would have to be a straight up brain dead to celebrate Thanksgiving and Columbus day.

[edit on 21-1-2010 by EndOfTheWorld7]

reply to post by RuneSpider


Cool!

I think that makes me like him even more. He was in the proverbial den of vipers, and still was able to defend our country from them.

reply to post by Dogdish


Absoultely great post!!! Be very careful though,to much real historic information might make highly educated liberals head explode.I mean do you really want to shake their foundations with TRUTH?

Originally posted by EndOfTheWorld7

Originally posted by Dogdish

He fought for our independence.

He fought over stolen land. Great job.
You guys must be proud.

Who was the land you live on stolen from? Every country has it's roots in either conquest or capture. It looks as though you are just looking for arguement.

Originally posted by daddyroo45

Absoultely great post!!! Be very careful though,to much real historic information might make highly educated liberals head explode.I mean do you really want to shake their foundations with TRUTH?

But isn't it fun listening to a liberal claim that they're highly edumacated, and fun watching their heads explode? And here I thought that was something of a sport. XD

[edit on 21/1/2010 by TwilightMage]

reply to post by EndOfTheWorld7


The thread is more interested in his accomplishments as President, which run in common with many people's opinions on ATS.

I enjoy history a good deal, and often find myself having to separate my opinions and beliefs when studying historical figures.
Very simply, for his time, Andrew Jackson was more progressive than many were in his own time, and even today would be more of a progressive figure than a good deal of people.

How is this any different than teaching kids in school how great Columbus was for killing and enslaving millions and celebrating Columbus day and Thanksgiving?

I suppose it's a given that this will go off topic...

I have been out of school for a good while now, so I can't speak for what is being taught in school, or for that matter what is being learned by the students, something that in my experience tends to be separate things.
In middle school, I was taught that Columbus landed in Cuba, claiming that land for the Spanish King.
Later on, I learned in High School he never truly landed in North America, and never believed he found a unknown continent, at least relative to the Europeans.
It wasn't until high school that his interactions with the natives was expounded on.

If you are Native, Hispanic or Black you would have to be a straight up brain dead to celebrate Thanksgiving and Columbus day.

The Hispanics, at least would have cause to celebrate, as Columbus was funded by the King of Aragon, Ferdinand II, and Queen Isabella I of Castile, who at the time ruled much of the Iberian Peninsula, what is today modern day Spain and Portugal, among other countries.
At the time of Columbus, Spain held something of an empire, in fact King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella's grandson was Charles V, a Holy Roman Emperor.

The initial Thanksgiving celebrations came about due to the natives and Colonists working together. Later actions by other groups not withstanding, Natives could find cause to celebrate Thanksgiving.


reply to post by Dogdish


I would disagree that the Masons are a "proverbial den of vipers."

Several of the founding fathers were Freemasons, and the original Boston Tea Party went on with a decent amount of help from the local Masonic Lodge in the area.




[edit on 21-1-2010 by RuneSpider]

www.andrewjacksonsociety.org...

THE ANDREW JACKSON SOCIETY

No American should have to live under the oppression of a sprawling oversized central government; or suffer the loss of personal autonomy and liberties to perfunctory bureaucrats; or endure the invasion of privacy by officious functionaries; or struggle through a life trying to stay ahead of inflation; or endure the nightmare of over regulation and criminalization; or tolerate mass corruption and fraud by self serving elected officials; or to grind out a living only to be ravaged by labor-wage taxes while Federal Reserve Bankers get rich off baseless currency; or die fighting in some needless war.

After reading the OP, I see that nothing is new.

It has been the same BS since before 1776, and it will be the same BS until I die.

reply to post by EndOfTheWorld7


Slavery has been practiced throughout human history. By all races, whites have been victims of it too. A more fair way of looking at it is that whites abolished slavery. So whites were not the slave makers of the world, but merely the ones who finally ended slavery. If it wasn't for whites then slavery may still be rampant today. Also if you didn't know already, black Africans sold each other into slavery. they sold the conquered tribes. Also most whites did not own slaves.

As for the whole thing about the Indians, they used to kill each other and take each others land for millenniums before, as do all people. Whites were just able to do it much more effectively. I'm sure if they could have they would have taken Europe in the same way, as many non-Europeans did try to do.

reply to post by EndOfTheWorld7


The world is one big melting pot of different races, there has always been and always will be wars over territory, the Uk is a mix of god knows how many different European countries all bundled into 1 over hundreds of years, so what's your big deal with demonising America for doing the same as everyone else?

Not every slave owner ever was a complete ass to their slaves you know. Back then it was socially accepted, some will have been grossly mistreated yes but you've been provided with ample evidence that this is not the case with President Jackson.. but then again you barely even mention Jackson, you're just jumping down the throat of any American who is trying to portray this President for what he was, a great man, a man who saw the injustice of bankers and greedy foreigners. They went their to colonise the land, it was a time of exploration.. so thats what people did.

And the slave trade dates back to Ancient Rome, so blame America all you like but all they did was take an idea and expand on it. And if you really wanna bitch about the mistreatment of millions of people, get your ass over to China or down to Mexico and go and complain about the child labor, see how far that gets ya

reply to post by TheCoffinman


I'd just like to point out that just because someone isn't American, does not mean they are ignorant of American history or unfamiliar with their Presidents.

I'm from the UK and only yesterday was i reading this book:

America: Empire of Liberty

and i just so happened to be reading about Andrew Jackson. That's why i read this thread when i saw the title. I can name more U.S Presidents than i can British Prime Ministers.

Our opinion in this thread counts just as much as yours whether we are American or not.

reply to post by Kram09


Just more Presidents than Prime Ministers? I'm from the Uk too and I can probably name more states in the US than counties in the UK!

If George W. Bush, John McCain, or Barack Obama had any honesty and integrity, they would approach the current banking malady in much the same way that President Andrew Jackson did. In discussing the Bank Renewal bill with a delegation of bankers in 1832, Jackson said, “Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”

What President Andrew Jackson said to the bankers in 1832 is exactly what an American President should say to these criminal international bankers today. But what George Bush, John McCain, and Barack Obama want to do is provide amnesty for the international bankers, just as they want to provide amnesty for illegal aliens. I say, No amnesty for Wall Street, and no amnesty for illegal aliens, either. Instead of sending these banksters on extended vacations to the Bahamas with millions of taxpayer dollars in their pockets, we should be sending them straight to jail!

reply to post by CaptChaos


Previous ATS Idol Major General Smedley Darlington Butler discussed here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Both Butler and Jackson found out first-hand the dangers central banks and big business posed to the democracy of america. The injustice of our election system (which just became a complete joke now that big business can bankroll unlimited funds to the candidates of thier choosing) no doubt both of these great men are rolling in thier graves. America has become a bankocracy ruled by a round table of big business and bankers. the people have no representation in washington D.C. anymore. the electoral college can overrule any vote, big business can overshadow any money we may send, the lobbyist any voice we may have had.... if a frog sat in cold water and it slowly came to a boil and boiled to death, he would sit there and boil to death, but if it got hot real fast hed jump out... its a cliche analogy but one that fits perfectly with the situation in america right now. we dont see what coming because were coming to a slow boil.. luckily there are a few out there who know whats going on (celente, schiff, etc.) and prolly a few thousand of us on ATS and like minded sites that know the water is damn hot..

"The bold effort the present (central) bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it." -Andrew Jackson

"I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket" -Smedley Butler

[edit on 22-1-2010 by TheCoffinman]

Originally posted by RuneSpider
irstly, I would dare any country to attempt to prove they don't exist on stolen land, or have not practiced slavery in on form or another.

Land can't be owned, bought, nor sold and therefore can't be stolen. It can be violated and abused along with those born on it - the fact that major world imperial forces did that throughout history and still do doesn't make it right.

i'm american and i agree whole heartedly with EndOfTheWorld7.