Hamas accepts Israel's right to exist

reply to post by palg1


What part of "breaking the ceasefire by one side" you don't understand?

Well I'm not sure who to believe one says yes the other says no.

"Hamas denied on Thursday the report claimed by Israeli newspaper that says the Gaza ruler "has accepted Jewsih State's right to exist."

"Palestinian Legislative Council speaker Aziz Dweik said in a statement that "The media reports in question were inaccurate."

www.worldbulletin.net...

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Dark Ghost


Saudi Arabia.

Dude we should have went to Saudi after 911, not Afghani.

Just my opinion.

I have always been extremely weary of their influence. It spreads far and around the world.

They are extremely powerful right now.

I also agree with many of the comments in this thread, and I thank you guys for pointing out some interesting information to me.

I guess things are about to heat up world wide. Oh well, not like I can prevent this snowball from rolling down the hill. Best I get out of the way.

Yeppers. We should have flattened Mecca and Medina.
Now we have to wait for them to use WMD again and that will happen.
Because we follow the Roman Art of War... they do not.
This battle will be very interesting!

My opinions on this have been laid out clearly in other threads, so I will not take up time with that.

I just wanted to make a correction.

Third Temple, not Second.

The Holy Temple of the Jews has been destroyed twice before.

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Dark Ghost


Saudi Arabia.

Dude we should have went to Saudi after 911, not Afghani.

Just my opinion.

I have always been extremely weary of their influence. It spreads far and around the world.

They are extremely powerful right now.

I also agree with many of the comments in this thread, and I thank you guys for pointing out some interesting information to me.

I guess things are about to heat up world wide. Oh well, not like I can prevent this snowball from rolling down the hill. Best I get out of the way.

Yeppers. We should have flattened Mecca and Medina.
Now we have to wait for them to use WMD again and that will happen.
Because we follow the Roman Art of War... they do not.
This battle will be very interesting!

No i believe the U.S should go to israel and slap them in their dirty face, and tell them they are nothing without america. Maybe that will knock some sense into those bastar**, but who am i kidding. Later the u.s should say WE'RE NOT GONNA LET YOU BUILD YOUR BULLSH** TEMPLE, HAHAHAHA THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING. Hey why not flatten all of israel, they are clearly the bad apple in the world.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by pujols5]

reply to post by pujols5


Firstly I disagree strongly with the poster above talking about bombing Mecca or anywhere for that matter. A shocking and disturbing thing to say, in my opinion.

However let me quote your own words:

You should have some more respect when talking so people actually show you respect.

Perhaps we all need to show a little more restraint and respect for each other on these forums. Far too much nation / faith bashing in my opinion, on all sides. Just because someone insults you it doesn't mean you have to go ahead and insult loads of other people in retaliation. It brings you down to their level.

Deny hatred.

Israel does not seek the right to exist; they already do exist. They exist as a global military superpower fully backed by the most powerful empire in the history of mankind, the United States of America.

If peace were as simple as granting Israel the right to exist, the conflict in the Middle East could easily be resolved.

Israel's agenda is territorial expansion by way of occupation and domination. The majority of countries all concur: Israel is occupying Palestine illegally.

Peace will be extremely difficult, but don't think Israel's goal is its right to exist as they've already achieved existence, non-threatened existence contrary to popular belief. Their existence has never been threatened. Only when the Islamic states are unconditionally and fully backed by China will I believe Israel's existence to be truly threatened. But meanwhile, Israel being the military superpower that it is, completely backed by the United States of America which can totally obliterate and decimate any and every Islamic nation, I will not believe Israel's existence is threatened. It would be illogical to think so.

That said, Israel, as powerful as it is, has the upper hand in peace. They can very easily find a solution for peace; however peace is not what Israel wants. If peace is what they wanted then they wouldn't be illegally settling and expanding into Palestinian land. What they want is territorial expansion, not peace.

Originally posted by mattpryor
reply to post by pujols5

 

Firstly I disagree strongly with the poster above talking about bombing Mecca or anywhere for that matter. A shocking and disturbing thing to say, in my opinion.

However let me quote your own words:

You should have some more respect when talking so people actually show you respect.

Perhaps we all need to show a little more restraint and respect for each other on these forums. Far too much nation / faith bashing in my opinion, on all sides. Just because someone insults you it doesn't mean you have to go ahead and insult loads of other people in retaliation. It brings you down to their level.

Deny hatred.

I'm offended by your post.

reply to post by JJay55


I can't think of anything to be offended about just at the moment, but I will.... I will!

Originally posted by Pr0t0
so for Hamas to now revoke that document officially is a very smart move on their part. They no longer have to deny the document, it will for all intents and purposes cease to exist. I'm sure Hamas are sick of being linked with it considering they have always denied it so it's a good step to denounce it officially.

In order to denounce something that was never accepted would mean it would look like it was actually accepted in order to denounce it again. I doubt anybody would do that.

Look at the people in this thread who look at the document as something that Hamas should denounce because they in some way state it is true Hamas supported it. I think it is easier for the people here to take the step to say it isn't true. There is no need to carry on a lie if they know it is a lie (in this very thread). No need to wait for some talk that just isn't gonna happen in the middle-east.

More JPost tabloid war that really doesn't exist.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


First, Perhaps you should attempt reading what I wrote. Clearly, you didn't as you would understand why I used that map: for the sole purpose of indicating that Israel would have to give up a significant share of its current territory in the case of a two-state solution. Not to show how evil the Israelis have been or whatsoever.

Second, you theory is utterly nonsense. In accordance with your logic, my country - the Netherlands - should be allowed to invade Belgium. After all, Europe is big enough.

reply to post by Mdv2


Not a very fair analogy, the situation in Israel is pretty different, unique and complex.

The Jewish people were promised a homeland in Palestine by the league of nations (i.e. the victors of WWI) following the collapse of the Turkish Ottoman Empire (who had sided with the Germans), which encompassed the entire region.

Western powers reneged on that promise due to disputes with the ruling Arab elite in neighbouring regions. Instead they gave most of the land that had been promised by international law to the Jews, to the powerful Hashemite tribe instead, what is now Jordan.

Israel declared its boundaries in what was left in 1948, and was subsequently attacked by Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Iraq and there followed a bloody and horrible war. Many people lost their lives and many people, Jewish, Muslim, Arab were displaced. The result was Jordan occupying what is now referred to as the West Bank (renamed by King Hussein of Jordan) and which Jews refer to as Judea and Samaria. That region is highly significant in Jewish and Christian lore, but not very significant to Islam.

1967 war is disputed between Muslim and secular historians. Some say Israel was the aggressor, but looking at the speeches being made by Arab leaders at the time there was a lot of threatening going on and a lot of military build up. Check out the history books. Israel, which had its back to the wall and difficult to defend borders, pre-emptively attacked enemy tanks and planes which were at its gates and took the area back in the 6 day war.

What we're seeing now is basically the continuation of that conflict, with the losers never really accepting that they lost and the resentment and hatred very much alive on a local level. The enemies have changed with the generations, but it's still the same old grudges with different names. Pan-Arab nationalism, Islamic Caliphate building, Palestinian self-determination, whatever. It goes on and on.

Most Israelis just want to be left the hell alone, they're not interested in ruling over other people and very few people want to hold onto the West Bank any more.

reply to post by mattpryor


I see what you are saying, but if you look at the map of the current situation on the West-Bank, you understand it has become impossible to implement a two-state solution. Many roads are currently inaccessible for Palestinians due to settlements and military outposts, this greatly limits the freedom of movement within the West Bank that would be a prerequisite for a two-state solution to work. A two-state solution with the current situation could never lead to a thriving economy in the Palestinian territory, and hence - the chance of a successful implementation of the two-state solution. A simple example is Palestinian farmers unable to reach their lands due to Israeli settlements forming an obstacle between their lands and their residences.

This means that Israel must dismantle the illegal settlements on the West Bank and accept a solution based on the pre-1967 borders and as I've stated before, I doubt that Israel would accept that, yet I am convinced that it would be the only possible way to make this work.

Currently, Palestinians are weak and not much of a threat to Israel. These few rocket attacks do relatively little damage and certainly don't form a threat to the existence of the state of Israel.

It might sound surprising to you, but most Palestinians, alike Israelis, just want to live their lives and have long accepted the existence of the state of Israel. However, there need to be certain basic living conditions that should be implemented, Israel holds the key to that and hence, to peace.

The theory of this guy is purely ignorant - 'oh, the Middle East is so big, why do they make a fuss about the little bit that Israel has taken from the West Bank.

Originally posted by JJay55
Maybe I can help you understand.
If you are a non-muslim then Islam is obligated to kill you.
Islam is starting with the elimination of Israel, then they will move on to the Christians. Probably NYC and Washington DC and LA.
Better perspective to help you understand?

So basically, your saying that israel is the only thing standing between the world and annihilation? Seriously?

...

The sheer absurdity of that statement is mind-boggling. Did someone pay you to say that? Because that's the only reason I can think of, that someone would say something so silly. I really do hope you get that paranoia checked out there friend, or else it may come back to bite you in the behind.

Chrono

Originally posted by Chronogoblin
I've never really understood these types of threads.This may be extremely blunt... but who cares? If a bunch of religious fanatics want to kill each other... then where's the down-side? The only issue I could possibly have is the kids mixed up in the middle of it all, who really have no say-so either way. Obviously the jews think they are some kind of superior race that 'god' chose, and everyone else can sit on it, and rotate. Hmmm, that sounds disturbingly familiar... The muslims are just more of the same. Same tune, different singer. If the whole of the country just fell into the ocean I'm sure the world would be a better place.

Chrono

I have to share this... You're right! At least get it over with!

Originally posted by Chronogoblin


So basically, your saying that israel is the only thing standing between the world and annihilation? Seriously?

...

The sheer absurdity of that statement is mind-boggling. Did someone pay you to say that? Because that's the only reason I can think of, that someone would say something so silly. I really do hope you get that paranoia checked out there friend, or else it may come back to bite you in the behind.

Chrono

Actually... Israel is one of the things thats standing between the world and "worldwide peace". It contributes with nothing good to offer the world, so by logic... it does have some weight on the "bad" part to offer

Love yer posts chrono.

Originally posted by Mdv2
I see what you are saying, but if you look at the map of the current situation on the West-Bank, you understand it has become impossible to implement a two-state solution. Many roads are currently inaccessible for Palestinians due to settlements and military outposts, this greatly limits the freedom of movement within the West Bank that would be a prerequisite for a two-state solution to work. A two-state solution with the current situation could never lead to a thriving economy in the Palestinian territory, and hence - the chance of a successful implementation of the two-state solution. A simple example is Palestinian farmers unable to reach their lands due to Israeli settlements forming an obstacle between their lands and their residences.

This means that Israel must dismantle the illegal settlements on the West Bank and accept a solution based on the pre-1967 borders and as I've stated before, I doubt that Israel would accept that, yet I am convinced that it would be the only possible way to make this work.

Your reply suggests that you did not comprehend the words used in my earlier posts. You cannot look at a situation like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict objectively if you are not willing to put events of the past, present and future into context. One of the claims being put forth by yourself and others is that Israel has been greedy in their acquisition of "Palestinian land". This is misleading because it does not look at the factors why Israel's land mass has increased since its inception. One of those factors is that surrounding countries have allied together in attempts to destroy that country. They have attempted to invade and drive out Israelis from the region.

Currently, Palestinians are weak and not much of a threat to Israel. These few rocket attacks do relatively little damage and certainly don't form a threat to the existence of the state of Israel.

How much of a threat were they in the lead up to and during the events of the 2nd Intifada? If you do not know about what took place in this Palestinian Uprising then you should do some research on what happened. Palestinian terrorists only pose a minor threat now because Israel have placed such harsh conditions on their ability to commit terrorist attacks.

It might sound surprising to you, but most Palestinians, alike Israelis, just want to live their lives and have long accepted the existence of the state of Israel. However, there need to be certain basic living conditions that should be implemented, Israel holds the key to that and hence, to peace.

Palestinians deserve the right to be free and enjoy their own culture and identity without fear of violence from others around them. I agree that as a whole they are just like any other people around the world. It is the extremists that are the problem. They are the ones who provoke and antagonise a country that is militarily and psychologically stronger. And extremists in Israel are also the problem too. It just seems like some members don't mind lumping extremists and non-extremists when talking about Israel, but cry and moan when other members do the same in regards to the Palestinians. You can't have it both ways.

The theory of this guy is purely ignorant - 'oh, the Middle East is so big, why do they make a fuss about the little bit that Israel has taken from the West Bank.

You have misinterpreted the message I was trying to send. Land theft is wrong and I would not support it whether the amount taken was 1km long or 1000km long. But to continually focus on the land that is 1km long when other countries around that country have occupied land with a far greater mass and population, it makes you wonder why. It makes you wonder why people ignore these other "injustices" and only focus on this one. It suggests that they might be bias and have a hidden agenda that has nothing to do with finding justice and peace in the region.

And contrary to what you might believe, I do have a big interest in finding peace and stability in the region. I don't want to see Palestinians hurt and murdered any more than I want to see Israelis. I don't want to see families destroyed and broken because of the actions of an extremist minority from both sides. I don't want to see people advocate bombing and violence as a solution to the problems in the ME. A two-state solution appears to be a good step towards peace. But the problem then will be how the region is divided. Some of the most Holy sites within the Christian, Jewish and Muslim worlds are situated in that region.

[edit on 23/1/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by Dark Ghost


I'll get back to your post later, but I'd like to offer you my apologies first. As you said, I had misinterpreted your post.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
The nation that holds all the money, resources and influence needed for the successful destruction of Western Civilisation.

Saudi Arabia.

From what I understand Hilary is making a trip to meet with Saudi in the next week, then she is off to London to discuss the terms. Maybe this is the declaration of war and the lines in the sand are being drawn. This very well could be it.

Hunda is the final symbol of a duel. Like when a Christian/non-muslim apostate is invited to return to Islam. An offer of peace, a term of surrender... then the challenger is beheaded by Islam unless they join the dark side. Islamic custom comparable to our Roman Art of War.

When Islam beheads the West it will start with massive attacks on many major cities, London, NYC, DC, Rome, Vatican, Paris, destroying governments and throwing the West into lack of leadership. The rest of conquest after that is a breeze. This isn't planned until 2017 but who knows if the timetable has changed.

Of course, the West isn't a sitting duck. We have the strongest military in the world. So while we will prevent some destruction there will be a battle and eventually a winner. It's best to be prepared for the worst case scenerio.

Originally posted by Chronogoblin

Originally posted by JJay55
Maybe I can help you understand.
If you are a non-muslim then Islam is obligated to kill you.
Islam is starting with the elimination of Israel, then they will move on to the Christians. Probably NYC and Washington DC and LA.
Better perspective to help you understand?

So basically, your saying that israel is the only thing standing between the world and annihilation? Seriously?

...

The sheer absurdity of that statement is mind-boggling. Did someone pay you to say that? Because that's the only reason I can think of, that someone would say something so silly. I really do hope you get that paranoia checked out there friend, or else it may come back to bite you in the behind.

Chrono

I didn't say that at all. I don't even know where you got that from.
I said that Islamic principle is that the destruction of Israel is a priority. The rest of the world, in the eyes of Islam, will fall to their control after they deal with their sore spot of Israel.
Can you comprehend now? Do you understand the principles of Islam?