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Since when did deep thinkers become the crazy people?

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posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 03:36 AM
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Anyone here who thinks that there is anything intellectual about doping up is REALLY trying to make themselves feel better for their pathetic habit. I know, I used to do it!
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Oh so many truths are learned from drugs! Oh me, oh my! Why isn't the world so enlightened yet?!

It has nothing to do with making them feel better about their habit...it's about discipline...a mature approach...with the right intentions...it doesn't even become a habit in this case...

And the reason the world hasn't become enlightened due to drugs, is because most of them drink alcohol...and they ABUSE drugs...the majority of drugs don't do any good, that is correct...but when used properly, certain psychedelics/mind altering substances can in fact unlock deep parts of the mind, and produce extremely complex thought patterns where a person is capable of producing extremely complex idea and theories.

I was reading a thread on a philosophy forum entitled Altered states of consciousness the brilliant madness...and the guy describing a very serious episode of manic depression. He stated:



. The delicious pleasure of the first stages of the manic phase are so seductive and so far better than any drug high, one feels that an eternity in this happy glorious joyful beautiful state is an absolute necessity to be sustained maintained forever. Nothing can convince me, when I am like this, that there is anything wrong with me and any one trying to reason with me that I am unwell makes me very indignant, Irritable and very angry.

Looking back now and after much careful reflection, I note that the trigger my mania was caused by unbalanced brain neurotransmitters, causing my brain to race and burn out. Thoughts, came with nonstop obsessions and uncontrollable non- thinking, trying to know the inscrutable? Religious obsession? What is the universe expanding into if it is everything? What is absolute nothingness? Is infinity possible? Why do we exist, is there a God, Infinity?


he impossible concept of eternity? My finite mind trying to arrive at by precise and finite means the explanation for all inscrutably mysteries , the enigma of evil, the enigma that there is no such thing as nothingness?, what is time?, what is life?, what is the of purpose of life?, what is energy?, know the mind of god?, is evolution toe?, what is gravity?, what is god?, what came before the big bang of creation?, how many dimensions are there in existence?, are there other universes beyond ours, what is outside the boundaries of the universe,

Will the universe continue to expand forever?, what is forever?, is there life after death? Is there a heaven or a hell? What is the purpose of life/, is life meaningless? etc, etc, etc.

I feel unreasonably that I must know everything in existence, that it is imperative to unravel all mysteries to know the inscrutable mind of God and become one with the infinite eternal divine sublime reality. On, on, and on day and night, without rest trapped in a life- time cycle of questions with no answers that I simply cannot accept.


An unsettling uncontrollable flood of never-ending disturbing thoughts that give me no rest, day and night. I must just know everything before meaningless death overtakes me and I die in ignorance.

Mania is so very delightful at first, so seductive and wonderful creeping unawares on the helpless victim, cannot tell or will even admit that there was anything wrong, because of the fact that one feels so unearthly wonderful.

Please note that what I am describing is not the mild beneficial hypomania of high performing persons of history who also had this disorder.

This mild form of mania existed in a large number of great and creative persons. It was there that one saw the enormous energy of Winston Churchill , Ludwig Van Beethoven, William Blake, Napoleon Bonaparte,, Charles Dickens, T.S. Elliot, Robert Frost, Sigmund Freud, Ernest Hemingway, Abraham Lincoln, Jack London, Robert Cow ell, Michelangelo,, Mozart, Isaac Newton, Edgar Allen Poe, Mark Twain, Vincent Van Gogh, King David, King Saul. To name a very few of the countless great personalities that suffered in different degrees from a milder form of this disorder.


Someone asks him:

Why does this sound so much like accounts of Methamphetamine use?
He replies:

Because it is, but the brain of a manic produces this itself. The brain is trying to compensate for the extreme depressive phase and over compensates hugely by flooding the brain with huge quantities of brain hormones and neurotransmitters that act in the exact way Cocaine or Methamphetamine


So you see, what he is describing here, is how certain chemicals can increase brain activity briefly, but like a light bulb that receives to much power, it can burn out and cause damage. This is why discipline and regulation are the key.

[edit on 23/1/10 by CHA0S]




posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 03:40 AM
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This should also be utilized in study of the Bible. Somewhere, at it's core, as with many other spiritual texts, there is a truth, and a tool. And, no matter how much of a mess exists in it's vicinity, with the correct method and mindset, the truth will find it's way out.
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And it does. I mean, think about it. Every day, millions of people find it in there. In the Bible. And, they manage to alter something in themselves, and their worlds, regardless of the evil that has surrounded it. Regardless of what man has tried to do to it.
Yes, some where at the core of the bible exists a truth, but it's only a partial truth...the whole truth exists inside us all...and the bible is totally unnecessary in the process of finding this truth. As you admit, it's a mess, and people get stuck in this mess...and they totally believe this whole mess is actually the truth. It ruins society and causes bloodshed and ignorance....it stops people from questioning anything, since they believe they already have the whole truth...and it keeps them from ever finding the whole truth...the bible and the whole Christian religion, not to mention 99% of all other religions, do nothing but hold us back, and do not aid us in finding the deepest truth, which they set out to teach. As I stated in the thread I linked, if you read it:

I find it's just as arrogant to say God doesn't exist, as it is to say he does exist IMO...so I just go about my life, being the best person I can...and that's all I can do...if God does exist...I just hope that's enough to get into Heaven...or at least avoid Hell...if such places really exist...if that isn't enough to get me into Heaven, then I probably don't want to go to Heaven with a God like that.

Can you not see that religion causes more problems then it solves? Religion isn't necessary to feed and clothe the homeless...it isn't necessary to have religion if you want to believe a "God" exists and have hope...and it isn't necessary for anything except herding the mindless masses like sheep, dumbing them down, making them feel guilty and fearful, and making profit...



1. Take a look back through this thread, and try to get an idea of the age groups that are present. Would you say that there seems to be a lot of younger people?
I don't know about that...I'd say a good percentage are older people who understand the flaws in religion, why it isn't needed, and how we can progress faster without it, and even become closer to God without it. Even if the vast majority are younger people...why do you think that is? Could it be because they are still young and don't have any previous attachments to any belief system? Could it be that certain beliefs haven't been forced onto them their whole life and they have an unbiased point of view, where they can examine things rationally, and see them for what they really are?



2. Would you agree that most of the younger members seemed to be on the same page? A distaste, if not a down-right hatred of all things Christian.

3. Would you agree that a lot of these members seemed to be stating extremely similar ideas, and even used similar wording?

4. What would be at the core of such similarities? Could it be similar sources, statements, topics, over and over, seeping into their minds?
Maybe they all seem to be on the same page, and posses similar ideals, because they've all arrived at the same logical conclusion?



8. Finally, to you younger members: And, this has nothing to do with Christianity... Do you really not realize that you have been getting a "Spiritual Lobotomy" from the powers that be? Your will, your heart, your compassion, seeping away. And, it wasn't always this way.

9. What if, you are being led away, and distracted from, or simply turned against all things that might be able to stop this process?
Have you considered that by freeing our selves from all the ignorant lies, some of us might be more spiritually aware? I certiantly consider myself a very spiritual person, and open to the deeper aspects of myself...I am always brutally honest with myself and I despise deception and road-blocks on the way to spiritual awareness....and I'm sorry to say, but one of the reasons I disagree with religion so much, is because I see it as precisely that, a road block, deception, a diversion and a tool to keep people blindly ignorant...so I in fact have the opposite outlook on this compared to you. Having an open mind and the ability to question everything, including religion...allows us to move forward and unlock deeper aspects of ourselves...becoming blindly faithful in something that is full of lies, and only ultimately causes bloodshed and destruction is something I would disagree with. It truly causes more problems than it solves, and as another posted said, is the root of a lot of evil on this planet, because of some of the things it teaches, and the way it causes people to think...even if the bible does, right at the core, have some small truth to it...it is essentially an unnecessary and deceptive tool for finding the truth which exists deep inside us all, and in fact generally accomplishes the opposite of what it preaches.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by ThePublicSpirit
reply to post by CHA0S
 

But, out of respect for the spirit of the thread, I will say this:

Just because somebody spends time, typing and thinking and typing and thinking, and then presents their idea, it does not mean that it merits the label of "Deep Thought".

No matter how much thought or typing somebody puts into an idea, it may still be... you got it, KOOKY! Garbage. Trash. Or, just stupid.


Well said, comrade. I had an inkling to make this point but you said it without all the psycho salad dressing I would have heaped over it. Nothing like eating your vegetables raw and unspoilt! Why even wash them?

"Deep thought" is "crazy thought" with some evidence to back it up.


And, I have some bad news for certain people on this site. It might be prudent to just wait a while before posting an idea.
Maybe until the morning.
Or, at least until the drugs or booze wears off.


Not a chance. This is the perfect place to go and wait while your intoxications abate, before you drive.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 07:14 AM
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This is a wonderful thread, my only advice is not to consider doing harm to yourself over this because, that is like you are giving up, the only way forward for us is to keep on going and learning, the nature of this planet for years has been that we have looked back at the past and cannot comprehend how narrow our views were, we are such a young civilisation, and with some much knowledge held from us, we are still learning, an awakening is happening, so perhaps why we are here, is because we choose too come at this time.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 07:19 AM
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lol this is exactly what happened to me my family couldn't comprehend what I thought, my brother even though I needed to see a pshychiatrist lol

and my friends either dont want to talk about these subjects, or say that the mind shoudn't wander lol (like wtf, this friend is not a friend anymore, just way to annoying and narrow minded), or they found it too much too handle

I have found one person I can talk to about these subjects, he is only 50% of agreement with me, but at least I have someone who respects my opinions, its amazing how people are so blind, like sheep, they just cant bear to be seen as not conforming to the majorities view LOL, good thing for people like us is that their is a mass awakening


Originally posted by xSe7eNx
I could not agree with you anymore on this. I have been thinking about this quite a bit lately as well and I have come to the conclusion that the world thrives off of ignorance and any individual who has half a brain that attempts to sift through the lies of this earth and try to find the truth is immediately looked down upon by their peers. Just in my own experience nearly every one of my friends and most of my family now think I'm crazy and completely disregard everything I say because I "have no idea what I'm talking about." Also not to mention that almost all the people that we are talking about here have never even spent more than 1 day researching ANY topic that they were not forced to do because of school or something of the sort. I also find it rather funny that the majority of the population thinks their common sense is all knowing. I'm just going to stop because I could go on all day about this.

Ignorance is bliss to the weak minded individual who cannot accept the truth.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 07:28 AM
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reply to post by CHA0S
 


Your complex theories and patterns are useless, CHA0S.

If you don't have the mental power to unlock whatever is inside of you, then how could you possibly muster up an argument to convince me that it is right or okay?

Let me tell you, friend, because it seems that you honestly believe somehow that drugs open your mind up to some truth.

Just because you can see the world unfold into a thousand universes right before your eyes while your brain does loud banging sounds in the form of morse code and then it all collapses down into the flower you're holding in your hand... It does not mean that you saw anything realistic. We have imaginations and they run amuck.

Sorry to tell you, but you cannot discern what is spiritual by PHYSICALLY ALTERING THE BALANCE OF CHEMICALS IN THE BRAIN. The spiritual is NOT physical. The shutting down of the nervous system to the degree at which it is unable to respond to certain sensors and the brain attempting to recalculate the reality surrounding it are NOT signs of gaining spiritual knowledge.. IT IS THE BRAIN DYING. When the brain is dying, it works very similar to our more powerful computers. It goes haywire attempting to decode the information that it is receiving but it cannot because the processor is failing. Because you are conscious enough to witness your brain frying, you SEE AND HEAR A LOT OF WEIRD STUFF.

Yes, you may, if you are conscious enough, learn a few things about how the body is wired physically and you might be able to witness the "Command prompt" of the brain (if you will), but what have you gained?

What have you to offer the world now, my unwise friend?
Share with us what you have learned.

I'll tell you what I learned. It takes about 2-3 years to regain your intelligence and quickness of mind. It takes about 5 years to realize that you're not getting it all back.

In response to a couple of posters:

To the one who implied I was being arrogant with my "I'm smarter than 99%..." statement, you are correct. There are many intelligent people here at ATS. It is foolish of me to think that just because people may not have come to the same realizations at the same time that I have that they are less capable of thinking or listening. I agree. My apologies. However, there is a step in the intelligence process that many are skipping and thusly falling short: HONESTY.

TO the other poster who thought that the Hallucinogens 101 lessons would somehow make me realize that my days of doing drugs had any good purpose... have you tried reality without them? Do you know how long it takes to get reality back? I was still see, thinking, and hearing INSANE calculations and geometrics for 2 WHOLE YEARS after the last time I did '___'. I can remember them now, to an extent... but atleast I'm not being attacked with them anymore.

In fact, maybe it's not such a good idea to relinquish full consciousness and sobriety because that SPIRIT LEVEL you are so anxious to obtain, well, something ON the spirit level might just reach you! Now you've made yourself a tool for a demon, Bravo.

Where is your higher intelligence? What are you sharing with me? If it's so wonderful, then why do people stop? If you learn so much, then why are you so mindless? If you are so wise, then why do you discredit the wisdom of your elders!

You pride yourself with your 19 year old brain. How do you do that? If you have logic, sustainability, wisdom, humility, honor, respect, and love - then hold onto it. But if you are the opposite, which is what has been shown so far, you are NO DIFFERENT than your peers.

Sure, some people your age are drinking all the time, fornicating, doing all kinds of drugs, driving really foolishly, paying no attention to detail, NOT coming to ATS...

Is that all really that different than mental masturbation? I mean, your method is just a different way of obtaining the same result! Less people KNOW you are an idiot, but yet you still have the same goals as the fools who show it!

And what's worse... is that it is in the disguise of truth when in reality it is all false knowledge and feel good... mental masturbation. Many adults pride themselves in it because it can be explained so EASILY in this simple society.

Let me tell you something, though. It feels a million times better to overcome temptation and do the right thing and be honest. Temptation is like a REALLY PAINFUL ZIT and it WANTS TO BE POPPED. But alas, you leave it....

And the next day, you look in the mirror... Behold, it is gone. For now. Zits have this bad habit of showing up when and where it is most inconvenient! Such is the way of temptation.

You're going to pop a few zits in your life, but after you get a few scars, you'll realize that the ones you left alone disappeared without a trace.

Since you're 19, I think this suits you!

I'd tell you how old I am, but according to you, it shouldn't matter.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to feel good and enjoy life. There is nothing wrong with wanting to understand nature. But when these get in the way of what is most important, then you will fail to actually obtain the feel good and the understanding which you seek!

"The guilt... the voices... Shut the Christians up, I can't hear myself THINK! THEY are doing this to me!"

Whine.

We're not trying to hurt you. According to my Father, God, and my Lord Christ, I am golden. I am in communication with Him. I understand that my works are fruit of the SPIRIT, but my works do NOT GET ME ANYWHERE. I do what I do because it is right. Also, it is better than trying to decide which computer game I want to play because there is no such thing as a challenging video game. They get old quick, the patterns are easy to catch on to, they're all predictable... they're bad drugs!

Enjoy yourself but be safe, friends.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 08:59 AM
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I've studied this phenomenon for a long time now. As a christian, I certainly encountered my share of problems getting along with other christians, but the same could be said about getting along with anybody, really. HOWEVER, I think I've finally discovered the core issue, the one that seems to suggest "organized religion" of any kind, leads to snobbish behavior. And whether it agrees with your research or not, I challenge you to consider what I'm about to say as honestly as you can:

It isn't religion. It isn't christianity. It isn't male, female, black, white, yellow, red, poor, rich, or middle class. It's MOB MENTALITY. If YOU belong to a philosophical region of the map (which crosses all borders), YOU will snobbishly adhere to that philosophy, whether it be from a recognized organization, belief system or simply a world view. This is true in every EVERY example of social interaction you can name. And I do mean, EVERY. You will even notice that your own position on the topic has resulted in being exceedingly critical of other people who don't appeal to you philosophically and for the same reasons you're also displaying: mob think snobbery.

Case in point-- online video games where there are opposing forces of "Good" vs. "Evil", which are constantly redefined by the player base itself but which characterizes the epitome of mob mentality. You can't escape it because even in your evacuation effort, you inevitably become the mirror reflection of the thing you disdain. Your OP is proof of this.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by TarzanBeta
 



Just because you can see the world unfold into a thousand universes right before your eyes while your brain does loud banging sounds in the form of morse code and then it all collapses down into the flower you're holding in your hand... It does not mean that you saw anything realistic. We have imaginations and they run amuck.

Sorry to tell you, but you cannot discern what is spiritual by PHYSICALLY ALTERING THE BALANCE OF CHEMICALS IN THE BRAIN. The spiritual is NOT physical. The shutting down of the nervous system to the degree at which it is unable to respond to certain sensors and the brain attempting to recalculate the reality surrounding it are NOT signs of gaining spiritual knowledge.. IT IS THE BRAIN DYING. When the brain is dying, it works very similar to our more powerful computers. It goes haywire attempting to decode the information that it is receiving but it cannot because the processor is failing. Because you are conscious enough to witness your brain frying, you SEE AND HEAR A LOT OF WEIRD STUFF.
You are looking at this as if all drugs lower brain performance and damage the brain. This is absolutely not true. A lot of drugs will do just this, and cause the symptoms you describe, but some drugs, if used properly, and not abused, can cause the brain to function faster, or cause cognitive functioning which wouldn't normally take place....and they don't all cause damage when used properly. The brain it's self is the most sophisticated drug factory known to man...what does that tell you? You say drugs damaged your brain to the extent you'll never obtain a maximum brain functioning again? You obviously ABUSED drugs and took bad drugs which caused damage to your brain.

Not all trips are as you describe, and not all of them are a result of the brain being damaged and dying. We are talking about seriously complicated chemical processes here, and for you to make that claim, is absurd. I'll admit I've taken a variety of drugs, but in the fashion of a psychonaut...I used them in a careful and mature manner, in order to explore alternate states of consciousness...not because I simply wanted to get high and have fun, and I only took them once or twice over a large period of time...and my brain functions perfectly...I can safely say, no damage took place, and my brain functions just as good, if not better than it ever has....and whilst exploring alternate states of consciousness, I've discovered the true potential of drugs, and I've explored my mind to the extreme...I've also thought up theories and ideas, which blew my mind when I became sober...I still have fairly clear memories of the whole experience, and I can clearly see that my brain functioning had significantly increased whilst on SOME drugs...it was truly amazing some of the things my brain could do and how brilliantly it could function and explore complex ideas involving anything from metaphysics to conspiracy theories. It wasn't simply...Oooo...look at all the pretty colors and weird sounds I can hear...it WAS a true increase in brain performance and cognitive functioning...



This mild form of mania existed in a large number of great and creative persons. It was there that one saw the enormous energy of Winston Churchill , Ludwig Van Beethoven, William Blake, Napoleon Bonaparte,, Charles Dickens, T.S. Elliot, Robert Frost, Sigmund Freud, Ernest Hemingway, Abraham Lincoln, Jack London, Robert Cow ell, Michelangelo,, Mozart, Isaac Newton, Edgar Allen Poe, Mark Twain, Vincent Van Gogh, King David, King Saul. To name a very few of the countless great personalities that suffered in different degrees from a milder form of this disorder.
Why do you think that is? As the manic explained, the brain produces chemicals which cause the same effect as methamphetamine's and coc aine...which is why his manic episode was so similar to that described by users of of certain drugs...he hadn't taken any drugs...he didn't need to...his brain took care of that part...and he states, during and after manic episodes he is more creative and insightful than ever...it's quite obvious in my opinion that altered states of consciousness aren't always bad...and not every drug damages the brain if used properly...who says a sober mind is perfect and 100% the best way for a brain to function?

EDIT:

"The guilt... the voices... Shut the Christians up, I can't hear myself THINK! THEY are doing this to me!"
I said nothing like that...and, as I've already said a million times now...this isn't only Christians...it's the bulk of society...the total and utter ignorance and close-mindedness drives me insane...I could give examples involving Christians, involving scientists, involving my friends and family...and involving society as a whole...so people really need to get over the fact that one example I used involved Christians...

[edit on 23/1/10 by CHA0S]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by xSe7eNx
 



I have been thinking about this quite a bit lately as well and I have come to the conclusion that the world thrives off of ignorance and any individual who has half a brain that attempts to sift through the lies of this earth and try to find the truth is immediately looked down upon by their peers. Just in my own experience nearly every one of my friends and most of my family now think I'm crazy and completely disregard everything I say because I "have no idea what I'm talking about."
That is a perfect example of what I'm getting at...thank you for that post...and I know how it can feel for your own family to think of you as a crzy person, it's quite annoying, and the more you try to open up their eyes, the crazier you look! May life treat you well my friend.

reply to post by Algebra
 



When someone trys to claim they are actually following a demanding control freak as with the example above. You may aswell have just slapped there mother. They dont need much free or deep thought to read a book and do as it says.
I completely agree...it's a way for people who need guidance and dependency to gain just that...it'd be to complicated for them to go about life in any other way...nice input...

reply to post by vjr1113
 



Also, revolutionaries are usually made to look crazy by the MSM, they are silenced and laughed at because TPTB know they are dangerous.
So...so true...and it's so easy for TPTB to make them look like crazy fools...which is the saddening thing...but I suppose we can't help the people until they want to help themselves...


You can lump me into this also. I am at the point now where I don't even like to discuss anymore. Generally people I know, don't want to hear anything bad. Whether it's opinion, fact,theory. Yup, im a kook, so they say.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by CHA0S
 





I have been thinking about this quite a bit lately as well and I have come to the conclusion that the world thrives off of ignorance and any individual who has half a brain that attempts to sift through the lies of this earth and try to find the truth is immediately looked down upon by their peers.


My ex boss (a christian) was like this. I was nothing more than a drooling moron who couldn't bang rocks together, according to him. The man refused to grasp simple scientific facts. The fact I was light years ahead of anything he knew made him extremely abusive towards me.

In contrast, I was talking to someone about something they learned on 'are you smarter than a fifth grader'. This woman was a 5th grader in the 40s. Not to insult, but she's truly ignorant of space travel just from disinterest and not learning much about in school. The subject was 'largest galaxy outside of our own'- Andromeda. I expounded what I knew, and her eyes glazed over a bit, but she at least appreciated what I told her. She's not a 'christian', either.

Honestly? Why would ANYONE want to spend eternity with a bunch of ignorant, abusive lunatics like this is beyond my ability to understand!



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by wylekat
 


wouldn't your attitude suggest that you've left some data out of your research? i'm certainly interested in these topics and also a christian. there are christian astronomers, scientists and so on. where is this idea that all people of the christian persuasion are automatically uneducated and uninterested in higher learning, coming from? clearly you've isolated out cases to use in your deliberations and ignored examples that suggest your position might be less than revealing.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by CHA0S
 


You are so very fooled.

You're gone. Bye-bye.

Don't forget to shower and shave.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by wylekat
reply to post by CHA0S
 


My ex boss (a christian) was like this. I was nothing more than a drooling moron who couldn't bang rocks together, according to him. The man refused to grasp simple scientific facts. The fact I was light years ahead of anything he knew made him extremely abusive towards me.


I don't know the other side of the story...

But I am curious if you could share some of your scientific facts that he couldn't grasp.

I would also like to know your definition of abuse.

Thanks.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


Hmmm...don't forget to shower and shave...what is that meant to imply? I have no idea what I'm talking about? That You MUST be right in your feelings about drugs, and you couldn't even possibly consider what I'm saying may be true...it's just "unthinkable" isn't it? You'd rather just insult me constantly and imply I'm a fool...thank you for showing us another real life example of what this thread is all about...well done sir...

[edit on 23/1/10 by CHA0S]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 09:49 AM
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The deep thinkers have become the crazy people since they started waking up after the horrific false flag of 911. Its as easy for people to label deep thinkers as crazy people like it was for Nazi followers to call all Jews un-human, sheeple are sheeple that are sound asleep.

TPTB will turn the minds of the sheeple by promoting that anyone and anything they are scared are either non patriotic,terrorists or crazy.



[edit on 23-1-2010 by franspeakfree]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by CHA0S
 


my theory on drug usage and spiritual or alternate reality experience is that the "flesh", as characterized in scripture, is the veil spoken of that separates us from the realities of spiritual or alternate reality. the flesh, when functioning within its "NORMAL" parameters, is less than revealing on these subjects. it is meant to be a veil, that segregates us from understanding fully, what is transpiring, which is seen only in part because of the veil of the physical body. i do believe this design is currently deliberate and part of a testing parameter. those who venture outside the confines of the parameter, may be met with data that their current design has trouble ingesting and is meant to be so until such time as each individual has grappled with the rest of the obvious, philosophical data.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by CHA0S
 


I'm with Tarzanbeta on this. I took many, many chemical substances in my youth. They dull the mind considerably. I was the kid who went to class once or twice a week, aced everything, and was given special consideration to pass even though I had 40+ excess absences each year. It was all incredibly moronic and boring.

Anyhow, drugs definitely mess up the mind. They most definitely are not enlightening. It's about as enlightening as the fools here who profess that we create our own reality, or we're indigo kids, etc..It's quite correct how it takes you a couple of years after to gain back some of your acuity, and a few more to realize you'll never be the same.

This is coming from someone who took it all. I truly thought of myself as "expanding my consciousness" , "growing spiritually" ...it's bs. The fools who think this way are the most lost souls ever. Just wait until they can't get their fix anymore to see who they really are, what they've really become. Remember, the cia pushes a lot of these drugs for the same reasons. It stupifies people into complacency.

The only time in my life I was ever able to hang around average imbeciles was when I was drugged up. So in that respect, I became more spiritual in that I sort of got along with people. After giving up drugs, I again became very withdrawn and saw the utter stupidity which was everywhere. It may help with the pain, but it's a scapegoat always. People do drugs not to become "spiritually enlightened" , even if that's what they tell their selves. They take drugs to run from reality. It's either their selves or what they see around them which is too much to bear. I hung around thousands of druggies back in the mega rave days. I remember the type. They all were runners.

[edit on 23-1-2010 by unityemissions]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


I'd agree with parts of what you say.


drug usage and spiritual or alternate reality experience is that the "flesh", as characterized in scripture, is the veil spoken of that separates us from the realities of spiritual or alternate reality. the flesh, when functioning within its "NORMAL" parameters, is less than revealing on these subjects. it is meant to be a veil,
That's quite an insightful comment, and I'd have o agree...if I'm correct in my interpretation of that statement...I believe alternate states of consciousness, allow us to explore aspects of reality and mind which aren't accessible, or extremely hard to access whilst in a "normal" state...for instance...I believe parts of the subconscious mind can be accessed whilst in alternate states of consciousness...and this can lead to an array of advanced cognitive functioning and insight into the structure of reality and the mind...

[edit on 23/1/10 by CHA0S]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 10:15 AM
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reply to post by unityemissions
 



I'm with Tarzanbeta on this. I took many, many chemical substances in my youth. They dull the mind considerably.
Again, as I explained to Tarzanbeta, you ABUSED drugs. I suggest you re-read all my statements involving drugs, on this page, and try to grasp what I'm getting at.


Anyhow, drugs definitely mess up the mind.
Of course they do...when abused...


It's quite correct how it takes you a couple of years after to gain back some of your acuity, and a few more to realize you'll never be the same.
I'm not disagreeing...of course this will happen...if they are abused...

EDIT: As a psychonaut I can truly understand the importance of keeping the mind healthy and exercised...and abuse of drugs is one of the worste things you could ever possibly do...as I've been saying, a mature approach, moderation, and proper intentions is the key to unlocking the benefits of alternate states of consciousness, whilst not harming your mind.

[edit on 23/1/10 by CHA0S]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by unityemissions
 


from what i can tell, it is deliberately and medically unsafe, primarily because the physical body has parameters, hard coded into it. it doesn't mean that drug usage is unrevealing, but rather that separating the spiritual body from the fleshly one, with drugs, often results in damage to the coding meant to keep these things separate and veiled to some degree. in short, it may be revealing, it may not always dull the mind, but it can damage the hardware.



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