Since when did deep thinkers become the crazy people?

Originally posted by thatJESTERjustin
anyone on this site could in fact be a deep thinker,but there are many who choose to believe what they are told on THIS site.

I have observed some propensity to simply replace one form of authoritativeness for another.

i commend those who oppose,but not without reason.

Do some take an oppositional position for its own sake? Is it simply blind rebellion, misanthropy?

logic is there and idea is sound, then we got a theory.
otherwise its crazy talk and not worth the thought process for intelligent individuals.

Gounding. Many do not possess the depth of knowledge to know why certain ideas are plausible and others are not. I think this hits home especially in the scientific areas. I am certainly not an expert in any scientific field, and so I remain extremely skeptical of the validity of various fringe theories, like the electric universe model. I won't go eat it up because it sounds neat and antiestablisment. People who have the depth of knowledge because of their chosen field do explain the problems quite succinctly and give concrete reasons based on experimental data for its invalidity. People are not simply trying to spread lies. That too paranoid and I do know people personally. Anyway, that's an example, not me presenting a derailment topic.

am i right or wrong?

lol

False choice? I've commented along similar lines in the past. My current opinion your view in this matter is that it is rather balanced and looking for truth, not answers.

reply to post by EnlightenUp

well put!
and some do actually argue for the sake of argument.-not sure if i do also

i "think" there are a system of thought processes depending on situation background and maybe personal well-being.

point in case:

an unarmed man would not choose to fight an armed man, knowing he might loose. - fear

a doctor might perform an emergency tracheotomy because of his extensive skills in airways.-background

jumping off a twenty story building--under the influence of the holy spirit or some really good stuff

but in the act of thinking, something more happens. a deeper thought from within is the spark of either natural reaction or forced reaction

****and is the deep thought process there for everyone??---

[edit on 24-1-2010 by thatJESTERjustin]

the point is the reference absolutely that allow those identifications of positive and negative, positive as free energies conscious are above that neutral absolute line and negative free energies conscious are under that line scotched to it from their wills, the idea is to detach them by force from it by saving that line of zero true existance absolute fact reality, and this should be done of course first in the dimensions up before down

creation as a source of life is evil, when u mean powers or gains you are then meaning to kill truth bases, creations must be simply mean actualisations of free conscious livings being an absolute fact of realities livings

Originally posted by thatJESTERjustin
reply to post by EnlightenUp

 

well put!
and some do actually argue for the sake of argument.-not sure if i do also

Who knows. I've been accused many times and at least some of those times were simply attempts to shut down my inquiry and label me "confrontational". Sometimes I may in fact come in, argue for the sake of it initially but hoping it blossoms into something more profound.

i "think" there are a system of thought processes depending on situation background and maybe personal well-being.

point in case:

an unarmed man would not choose to fight an armed man, knowing he might loose. - fear

Instinct.

a doctor might perform an emergency tracheotomy because of his extensive skills in airways.-background

Expertise.

jumping off a twenty story building--under the influence of the holy spirit or some really good stuff

Blind faith.

but in the act of thinking, something more happens. a deeper thought from within is the spark of either natural reaction or forced reaction

Perhaps I can just personally project on the matter:

I try keep things in the back of my mind even if I go "that's nuts". There's no personal danger in keeping it on the shelf. Nothing need be precipitously pronouced "true" or "false". I seem to tolerate ambiguity fairly well. Loose threads are ok. Getting real truth often requires patience.

This spark could lead some to extinguish it in order to protect their personal sense of self. Am I completely immune to that all the time? Heck no. It's a matter of degrees.

****and is the deep thought process there for everyone??---

If one does not bother to look for the gold or even venture out of heavily trodden areas proven to be devoid of it, one is assured of not finding it. We'd need a sure example of a failure to say "no" with certainty, otherwise, I'll lean to "yes".

CONCERNING THE SUPREME SECRET OF THE WORLD

Ever since man has existed. He has been thinking of the cause and reason for his existance.

The greatest thinkers and phillosophers have pounderd over this through all ages.
- How and Why do I exist and for what reason?

I would like to dwell into the thought of "GOD", it has been called by many names.

What is God?, God is a name, an idea, a thought to explain the unexplainable. God is nor man nor woman. God is not a person. God is in all elements of the universe. God is it's own uncreated creation who has always existed and will always exist for eternity. (And just the very word ETERNITY can't be grasped by the human mind (at least not my mind)

So when "God" is everything, so also must mankind be a part of God. Philosophically that makes us God, not in the sense that we could do "God-like things", or could we?
I think here lies the secret that has been keept hidden for mankind except for a very few individuals throughout the ages.

This is the secret that all great philosophers have keept hidden.

This secret can be found in all religions.
But I'm gonna focus on some scriptures from the New Testament, plus som other, cause that would apeeal to most people (I think)

So did Jesus know about this?

My answer is yes.

He was trying to explain this to many people in parables, for those who hade ears of understanding.

For the New Testament is very deluding to say the least. Written mainly by people who didn't have the ears of understanding.

What I would like to put forward here is that there is a thin red line through many "Holy Books"
"BUT THIS IS HOW I SEE IT, YOU MAY SEE IT DIFFERENTLY AND I CAN FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT AGAIN THIS IS HOW I SEE IT, BEACUSE FOR ME THIS IS WHAT I THINK, I DO NOT KNOW IT. I MAY BE COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT THIS. BEACUSE I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ANYTHING, SO PLEASE FORGIVE ME IN ADVANCE"

Concerning The Supreme Secret of The World.
By Avicenna this Spirit [of Truth] is named the Soul of the World.
And as the Soul is in all the limbs of the Body, so also is this Spirit in all elementary created things. It is sought by many and found by few. It is beheld from afar and found near; for it exists in every thing, in every
place, and at all times. It has the powers of all creatures; its action is found in all elements, and the qualities of all things are therein, even in the highest perfection.

When the philosophers had discovered it, with great diligence and labour, they straightaway concealed it under strange tongue, and in parables, lest the same should become known to the unworthy, and the pearls be cast
before swine. For if everyone knew it, all work and industry would cease; man would desire nothing but this one thing, people would live wickedly, and the world would be ruined, seeing that they would provoke God by reason of their avarice and superfluity. For eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, nor hath the heart of man understood what Heaven hath naturally incorporated with this Sprit.

-The Book of the Revelation of Hermes





continuation....

I beleive that there is a invisible spirit living in every human being that is built into itself, that very very few humans have touched upon. If God is more or less nature (it's body) this is it's soul (a collective soul, truth, spirit, force, call it what you will, but it lives in all inhabitants of the earth)
Also through people how lives on other planets in the universe. There could be trillions of planets throughout the vast ocean of stars that we call the universe with living human beings just like you and me, wondering if they are alone in the cosmos.

What these sayings (scriptures) are telling me is it that the human body is the temple of god, god lives inside you. But man has not understod or have to little faith in this spirit that it can not bring forth the divinity inside himself. To really know oneself one must look very very deep inside "The Self". I beleive if one gets to know this, one would be greeted by such incomprehensible love, warmth, truth, such pure bliss. Some people may know what I'm talking about here when they have experienced the glory of this when you cry tears of joy for no apperent reason except the thought of the love towards this oneness. But this is just scratching the surface of it. To really know it and to be one with it would be such a revelation, and the splendor of it would make you float away into divinity.

The one who finds this could walk on water, heal the sick, raise from the dead etc.

These sayings are handpicked from New Testament and The Nag Hammadi Library, as well as some other sources.

Luke 17:5-6 (New International Version)
5. The apostles said to the Lord (Jesus), "Increase our faith!"
6. He replied, "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it will obey you.

Luke 17:20-21 (New International Version)
20. Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21. nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."

Gospel of Thomas 113
His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
"It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it."

Gospel of Thomas 3
Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

Gospel of Thomas 62
Jesus said, "I disclose my mysteries to those [who are worthy] of [my] mysteries.

Gospel of Thomas 67
Jesus said, “One who knows everything but lacks oneself lacks everything”

Gospel of Thomas 111
Jesus said, "The heavens and the earth will roll up in your presence, and whoever is living from the living one will not see death." Does not Jesus say, "Those who have found themselves, of them the world is not worthy"?

John 2:18-22 (New International Version)
18. Then the Jews demanded of him, "What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?" 19. Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." 20. The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" 21. But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

1 Corinthians 6:19 (New International Version)
19. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

continuation.....

Mark 14:58 (New International Version)
58."We heard him say, 'I will destroy this man-made temple and in three days will build another, not made by man.'

Acts 17:24 (New International Version)
24."The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands.

1 Corinthians 3:16 (New International Version)
16. Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?

1 Corinthians 3:17 (New International Version)
17. If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.

"The man is insane who writes a secret in any other way than one which will conceal it from the vulgar and make it intelligible only with difficulty even to scientific men and earnest students. On this point the entire body of scientific men have been agreed from the outset, and by many methods have concealed from the vulgar all secrets of science. For some have concealed many things by magic figures and spells, others by mysterious and symbolic words. For example, Aristotle in the Book of Secrets says to Alexander, 'O Alexander, I wish to show you the greatest secret of secrets; may the Divine Power help you to conceal the mystery and to accomplish your aim. Take therefore the stone which is not a stone and is in every human being and in every place and at every time, and it is called the Egg of the Philosophers, and Terminus of the Egg.' Innumerable examples of the kind are to be found in many books and divers sciences, veiled in such terminology that they cannot be understood at all without a teacher. The third method of concealment which they have employed is that of writing in different ways, for example, by consonants alone, so that no one can read it unless he knows the words and their meanings. In this way the Hebrews and the Chaldaeans and Syrians and Arabs write their secrets. Indeed, as a general thing, they write almost everything in this way, and therefore among them, and especially among the Hebrews. Important scientific knowledge lies hidden. For Aristotle in the book above mentioned says that God gave them all scientific knowledge before there were any philosophers, and that from the Hebrews all nations received the first elements of philosophy. .. .
In the fourth place, concealment is effected by commingling letters of various kinds; it is in this way that Ethicus the astronomer concealed his scientific knowledge by writing it in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin letters in the same written line. In the fifth place, certain persons have achieved concealment by means of letters not then used by their own race or others but arbitrarily invented by themselves; this is the greatest obstacle of all, and Artephiushas employed it in his book On the Secrets of Nature. In the sixth place, people invent not characters like letters, but geometrical figures which acquire the significance of letters by means of points and marks differently arranged; these likewise Artephius has used in his science. In the seventh place, the greatest device for concealment is that of shorthand, which is a method of noting and writing down as briefly as we please and as rapidly as we desire; by this method many secrets are written in the books of the Latin-using peoples. I have thought fit to touch upon these methods of concealment because I may perhaps, by reason of the importance of my secrets, employ some of these methods, and it is my desire to aid in this way, at least you, to the extent of my ability."

-Roger Bacon, "Epistle on the Nullity of Magic"






continuation...

It seemed that ThePublicSpirit was a "Deep Thinker".

Why is he now banned?

Is that what this thread is about?

"Sons of Science! For this reason are philosophers said to be envious, not that they grudged truth to religious or just men, or to the wise, but to fools, ignorant and vicious, who are without Self-Control and benevolence, lest they should be made powerful, and able to penetrate sinful things. For of such the philosophers are made accountable to God, and evil men are not admitted worthy of this wisdom."

-Tractatus Aureusi "Golden Treatise of Hermes"


Let the studious Reader have a care of the manifold significations of words, for by deceitful windings, and doubtful, yea contrary speeches (as it should seem), Philosophers wrote their mysteries, with a desire of veiling and hiding, yet not of sophisticating or destroying the truth; and though their writings abound with ambiguous and equivocal words; yet about none do they more contend than in hiding their Golden Branch.

-The Hermetic Arcanum



All religions are true more or less, i think there are many paths that leads to "The Source".


By Thought, It exist.
-The Reader

That's too bad. I was liking where ThePublicSpirit, SpectreDC and CHAOS were going.

I wish you all could have listed books and articles and stuff for both sides.



[edit on 24-1-2010 by WilltotheTenth]

reply to post by WilltotheTenth


I don't have books to list really because that would be a massive amount and still not where I get all my conclusions.

My beliefs on reality comes from the following, really.

Firstly, my own introspection. All my conclusions are garnered through first hand experience with a variety of phenomenon.

Most information comes from a variety of books, from contemporary texts all the way down to ancient texts. I also talk to a variety of people who practice similarly as I do, and we have all come to similar beliefs and ideas that all interrelate. Some are just regular every day joe's who practice some of the occult and esoteric practices, to people who are members of secret societies and practice these beliefs for many many years. Some of it comes from speculative scientific ideas and theories, and conspiracy theorists. I even talk to a few schizophrenics.

All together, I would argue most if not all phenomenon discussed on ATS, from secret societies, the New World Order, and current conspiracies, to alien speculation and experimental technology, to lost civilizations, religions and philosophy are all interconnected. All of these are adventures down mysterious rabbit holes, and I've discovered through all my diggings that all these rabbit holes seem stem from one giant chamber, this chamber answering all these beliefs and answering even many of our most primal questions, such as who we are, what is our purpose, and why is it like this. Essentially, behind all these ideas, beliefs, conspiracies and phenomenon lies one giant interconnecting conspiracy designed to create an illusion over the masses.

I don't take anything I find at face value but rather keep an open mind on any and all topics. And after I've gathered this information, I look inside for answers and to make sense of it all. What I've posted I don't even particular attribute as the absolute truth but the current stage of my speculative esoteric investigations and experiences. It changes quite dynamically but overall I've discovered a massive amount of coincidences. I'm a jedi, I don't believe in coincidences. Many coincidences are too coincidental by nature.

In the coming years, if no major sh-t goes down and I'm still capable of it, I plan to write a book. If ATS is still around you can expect me to at least discuss what is in the book. But sadly I really don't have a list of sources for my information and ideas.

Originally posted by The Reader
"Sons of Science! For this reason are philosophers said to be envious, not that they grudged truth to religious or just men, or to the wise, but to fools, ignorant and vicious, who are without Self-Control and benevolence, lest they should be made powerful, and able to penetrate sinful things. For of such the philosophers are made accountable to God, and evil men are not admitted worthy of this wisdom."

-Tractatus Aureusi "Golden Treatise of Hermes"


Let the studious Reader have a care of the manifold significations of words, for by deceitful windings, and doubtful, yea contrary speeches (as it should seem), Philosophers wrote their mysteries, with a desire of veiling and hiding, yet not of sophisticating or destroying the truth; and though their writings abound with ambiguous and equivocal words; yet about none do they more contend than in hiding their Golden Branch.

-The Hermetic Arcanum



All religions are true more or less, i think there are many paths that leads to "The Source".


By Thought, It exist.
-The Reader

Wow!
I can't believe I actually understood that! Just kidding.
It was seriously profound.
Excellent.

reply to post by WilltotheTenth


I can certainly suggest that all related writings from the above, whether it be The Emerald Tablets of Thoth, or whatever. Hermeticism is incredibly profound and I believe a great first stop.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
reply to post by WilltotheTenth

 

I can certainly suggest that all related writings from the above, whether it be The Emerald Tablets of Thoth, or whatever. Hermeticism is incredibly profound and I believe a great first stop.

Thank you very much. I am making a reading list.
And, do you have any idea where ThePublicSpirit was getting his information?
My cousin says that he seemed to be tapping a lot of Emmit Fox, "Scientific Christianity" stuff, as well as a lot of Culture and Anthropology studies info, but no specific books.

Well, everybody had some really good stuff. From out here, it actually looked like you guys weren't all that far off from really finding some common ground.

My main issue was his inability to see beyond his own viewpoints and how to correctly articulate his posts as such.

Nothing he really talked about was incredibly new to me. He couldn't look beyond his faith to see anything else.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
My main issue was his inability to see beyond his own viewpoints and how to correctly articulate his posts as such.

Nothing he really talked about was incredibly new to me. He couldn't look beyond his faith to see anything else.

Do you think he should have been Banned because of this?

Or, do you think he was banned, due to a situation similar to the title of this thread. A distaste of an unpopular perspective.

Obviously, there was no tolerance for his view point.

Does he qualify for the same tolerance, as a "Deep Thinker", as everybody else? Or, should his point of view, and it's lack of popularity, make him a less important member of this site?

reply to post by wellyouknow


I don't know the reasons for him being banned, but if it was solely for this thread then of course not. I believe everyone should be tolerant of everyone else, as tolerance is a positive energy.

Like I said, I tolerated his message and beliefs, my problem was the method in which he delivered them, which I attempted to showcase to him.

Apparently we have a former member who was banned previously for some major violations of the T&C's and that person keeps registering new names for the sole purpose of returning to this thread.

I have no idea why someone would do this, but it would be best to not entertain the person in question and just go on with the thread.

Thank you.

reply to post by Djarums


Good sir, are you implying I didn't know that was him?

Why, I'm offended by your insinuations.

I know, i know, i know. I've had the exact same thoughts. Actually you took the words right out of my mouth. On so many levels I agree with what you're saying.

I'm personally made to feel like an idiot on many occasions because I come out with something slightly alternative to offer. Also, I've realised that I can entirely understand theories and ideas conceptually in my mind, but when it comes to relaying the mechanics, the what, how, why of ideas to other people, I'm completely hopeless and therefore regarded in other peoples' light as probably being a bit simple.

I often become frustrated with loud mouthed, arrogant types who are just so confident that they have all the answers. I mean, it's perfectly fine to be sure of yourself, and I think that merely believing in yourself or whatever cause can get you far, but to be blatantly ignorant of all other options in favour of what is largely accepted and proven, makes one bluntly close-minded, when they're living in the delusion that they are the opposite. I know that sounds something like an oxymoron, being close-minded because you choose to believe in what is proven, but too many people accept these proven things in their entirety and leave it at that, without any further thought or individual opinion. It's not about trying to disprove something that science has found to be true through extensive trial and error, it's keeping one's mind open to other possibilities regarding a field that is not exempt from change and mistakes and one that possesses plenty of room for improvement and expansion.

I'm all for being passionate about whatever it is in life that you're drawn to, but I think judging and criticising others outright about something they personally haven't explored or evaluated themselves is foolish and will only lead them to dead ends. And vice versa. I try not to fall in trap of judging and criticising other people who aren't seeing the scope that I'm seeing. It's not an issue of the ego. I remind myself that if they haven't experienced such method of doing and observing things, they wouldn't know any different. I do my best to be tolerant, and let them figure out their own path. If they ask for my advice, I give it to them. Otherwise, I'm debating the idea of whether there is actually a 'universal truth', one order of making things work, or if this actually varies with each person's own attitudes and beliefs and opinions etc.

Anyway, good discussion. It's good to know that I'm not the only 'crazy person' thinking these thoughts.