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Since when did deep thinkers become the crazy people?

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posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:53 AM
reply to post by yesIAM

Religion to me has done nothing but destroy our building of knowledge. It is the only way it can remain having control of the people. People truly love being enslaved by a system. The slave never realizes it is a slave.

To expound on your post- go read the Tower of Babel in the Bible. The short form- God and his associates are so concerned the human race could achieve anything after they build this tower, he screws up language.

So much for unlocking human potential....

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:55 AM
reply to post by CHA0S

depends. like, let's say you're playing a game of chess. you ultimately want to win (unless of course you want to encourage the other person to exercise their skills at complex strategic thinking). the only parameters are fake pieces that obviously are not real queens, kings, knights, pawns, bishops and so on. the goal IS winning the game. can it be construed as blood lust? no. i tend to think of such things as fighting my own foibles, flaws, and shortcomings, and not in a sense of command or domination of an opponent. now were you to do such a thing to real people with real physical abuse, that's a whole different ball of wax.

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:56 AM
reply to post by undo

OK, I would have to debate this. Here is a theory. If you believe that god created the universe. Which if you believe is jesus, then we know you do. Here is a question for you. If god created everything, would that not make him everything? Thus making him the positive & negative force since he is everything? So why would it not be equally both? And would that not make us god. if he created everything?

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:59 AM
reply to post by yesIAM

well the history of the god word and the concept behind it, is old and is a whole other topic of very interesting scientific and philosophical discussion. probably stray too far off the topic of this thread to expound on it, unless the op doesn't mind. i'll wait for his go ahead before proceeding.

[edit on 23-1-2010 by undo]

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 12:12 PM
reply to post by undo

Yeah, go for it...the thread has pretty much died down and we've gone a fair way of topic for a while now anyway.

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 12:43 PM
okay with the op's permission (thank you):

the god word appears to have originated in ancient sumer from the word LIL, which meant sky/air/heaven (depending on which translation you're reading) prefixed by EN, which meant lord. so the god word was originally based on LORD SKY. the word LORD was inevitably dropped, which left LIL. the etymology goes thusly:


that covers every permeation of the god word in mesopotamia and translates across boundaries to egypt, china and india as well. it was rejoined by the word for LORD (EN), which became known as AN or ANU, who turns out to be the same etymologically as the egyptian AMUN (Amen). etc etc etc

somewhere in the midst of all this was a deified THING, called the ABZU. you can read about it in sumerian, akkadian and babylonian texts. even references to it in ancient egypt. by the time of babylon, it had become a chaos mother goddess known as Tiamat, who I have researched and connected back to the ABZU. further research revealed that the chaotic mother goddess of creation was a wormhole.

so in essence, the god creator (regardless of gender) was intimately linked to a wormhole/blackhole that had created the universe. imagine my surprise when a science program revealed that every galaxy may have been formed by super massive blackholes!

this is not to say that god is literally a wormhole, only that it all seems to be connected! see this video, you will be astounded

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 01:17 PM
reply to post by undo

so the god word was originally based on LORD SKY

so in essence, the god creator (regardless of gender) was intimately linked to a wormhole/blackhole that had created the universe
Hmmm...interesting...because I've always thought the God(s) and angels referred to in ancient texts, religious, and non-religious alike, were actually Aliens.

The conclusion I reach from all this: Lords of the sky (aliens) came to Earth through wormholes.

[edit on 23/1/10 by CHA0S]

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 01:22 PM
reply to post by undo

Interesting, reminds me of a great read I once read called the The Terra papers.
Share link: [link to]
Now people who read this keep in mind, it is very long & the first how many pages will make a person go... hmmmmmm sounds a little like star wars. but the people that endure through the whole thing, will look at the terra [earth] system much differently.
Undo, I greatly appreciate your explanation, but the universe just is what it is. It still must be of equal positive/negative. Yes, it did break down into factions. Which, during Sumerian times, we as a species were able to articulate and put a name on energies or factions that may be more advanced. I do not see them as the ultimate god, but in some way a creator of that magnitude could be seen as one. To me, I can still not confine myself to believe in them or it as god or gods. But we must realize, we all have that same exact God-potential if you believe in the theory that God created EVERYTHING.
You speak of the word Amen. The god Ra is in this word. En Is either Enlil or Enki [not sure] Am En Ra. Every time someone says amen they are are giving gratitude to those gods. thus confining to a system. Also focusing your energies to them.Those names you speak of, is yet still a system which harness our brilliant free will energy. Jesus, was a teacher a great teacher at that. He was one that taught the kingdom of heaven is within. That god is everything. He came with a message not to be worshiped. but to tell us we can be anything. We are all part of the big system. EQUAL. Not postive nor negative. It just is.

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 01:25 PM
reply to post by CHA0S

Really, read the Terra papers. Its holds much more truth, than any religion has come close to.

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 01:27 PM
reply to post by CHA0S

which would naturally include the "stars" (angels) and "planets" (gods), when viewed from the grecian and roman perspective. ENLIL became attributed to JUPITER, for example. ENKI became attributed to SATURN. and so on. inevitably, this data suggests that wormholes/blackholes created the universe but by what mechanism and where's the material coming from that does this creation? if wormholes connect distant points in space/time/alternate realities/other universes, ya see where that's going! my personal view is that this universe is created by material from another universe controlled by an entity or entities we would have a hard time contemplating and which we haven't seen yet cause we wouldn't survive the journey to the other universes in these flesh bodies.

michio kaku gets really close to what i'm thinking

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 01:39 PM
reply to post by yesIAM

well i did the etymology.

there's amun/amen
and there's amun-ra or amen-ra.

i believe amun/amen is enlil/anu
i believe amun-ra/amen-ra is enki/anu.

it's my current (current!) belief that anu is a title.
anu-enki or anu-enlil, which may or may not suggest
a separate entity. to me it seems like it's saying
LORD (en)ki and LORD (en)lil. (lord earth and lord sky)

i have read the terra papers.

[edit on 23-1-2010 by undo]

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 02:03 PM
My search is still in the energy behind the creation. Not the black hole or planets. For the names are just a way for our mind to put it into perception. For the solar system or space as we know it, does not have a positive/negative outlook. A star is born, a star dies. And so on.... Its a never ending cycle.
So as for a positive swing in the universe. Some would say how sad a star is dieing another would say but look at the star being born.

I truly am not looking for who, what and when, as much as how. Because if a outside force created this universe, my next question would be who created the outside source? And from that source, we are still a part of.

Now most religions would say blasphemy with how you & I are discussing theories. Religion teaches to question nothing. This is the kind of discussions that are needed in society. Because they quickly break does the confines of normal thinking.

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 02:04 PM
What did you think of The Terra Papers?

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 02:12 PM
reply to post by yesIAM

i REALLY enjoyed reading the terra papers. i believe his "hathor" is the same as the babylonian tiamat, the egyptian nun, the sumerian abzu and the whole ball of wax is the wormholes/blackholes that created the galaxies. for example, the sumerian e.abzu was also called the e.nun, and these were attributed to the "chaotic waters of creation", which is the tiamat reference, the abyss reference, the bottomless pit reference and so on. from it the gods and sons of god were born and into it, some were hurled. some are even imprisoned in these wormholes .......somewhere.

his take on it is that hathor is the singularity from which everything is created. my take on it is that the singularity ain't even in this universe.

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 02:17 PM

Originally posted by dalan.

Originally posted by angelx666
there cant be any more ignorant sheep, than 'religious fanatics',

second place goes to 'patriots', the third err maybe football fans i dunno

[edit on 21-1-2010 by angelx666]

How ironic that all three of those tend to go hand in hand...

To the OP:

This has to be one of those few threads that I really like reading on ATS.

I like your thinking.

Yeah! dalan and angelx666 have definitely figured it all out!
Congratulations. Obviously your vast, deep thinking intellect, and years upon years of education and personal experience have brought you to these conclusions.
By all means. Please continue to share your brilliance with the rest of us, so we may finally find the light.

I would like to know a couple things though:

1. What is your personal description of a "Religious Fanatic"?
2. Why do you you consider "Patriots" to be ignorant, and Sheeple?
3. Why so angry with Football Fans?

[edit on 23/1/10 by ThePublicSpirit]

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 02:24 PM
reply to post by undo

I really enjoyed discussing this with you today. A great thread started by the Op. But I must go back to reality for awhile & go coach basketball at a 7th grade tourney tonight.. My daughter is saying lets go and I am wanting to stay & discuss the universe theories... LOL

Forever friend In Infinity

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 02:38 PM

Originally posted by dalan.

Originally posted by ThePublicSpirit

Originally posted by The Reader
Call me crazy...You've done it!
You cracked the case! And all with just that little bit of information to work with, and no need of examining any other texts, or spending any time listening to those pesky "experts" that have been making a career out of studying religion and writing books, and teaching classes, and stuff like that.
You grabbed some apt entries, quoted writings that seem to go the way you want them to go, and BANG!
You did it.
God is evil.
I would imagine that you also believe yourself to be a "Deep Thinker".

[edit on 22/1/10 by ThePublicSpirit]

So I would just like to point out that every single one of your posts that I have read seem to be you just insulting people? I think that TheReader had a very good point in his argument. Basically saying that, if God were "good" why would he release such "evil" over his own creations?

By the way, your attack on TheReader is a LOGICAL FALLACY, one in the "ad hominem" category...counter the posters argument instead of slinging childish insults.

[edit on 1/23/2010 by dalan.]
I'm sorry, can you show me an insult in my post that you have quoted?
My argument was with the common debunking practice of utilizing a vast source of information, and finding a small number of statements, (usually taken out of context), hand-picked to support an opposing position, while ignoring the vast majority of information that might hurt the opposing position's argument.
It is not an open-minded search for the truth, and it is not a proven position.
It begins as an idea for an attack, and ends as one also.

Just as an FYI, although you have seen that I admitted to being a Christian, you will find no posts by me, that are an attempt to prove my belief is correct, and nothing where I am saying that Christianity is THE WAY.

My argument in this thread, concerns:
1. The lack of open-mindedness, by the self-proclaimed "Open-Minded".
2. The folly of arguing a position, without having truly educated oneself about the position. In an actual debate, while submitting a "deep thought" or when arguing a point, a person needs to know more than their idea, their point of view, and why the believe what they believe. They need to respect the opposing side, have an understanding of the views of the opposing side, and a good grasp of the data being used by the opposing side.
Very often, especially in these forums, posters equate "Christianity" with stupidity, ignorance and close-mindedness. Then, as in this thread, they are unpleasantly surprised when they realize this was a flaw in judgment.
3. Finally, I agree with a lot of you. If a Christian shows up on these forums, and begins to tell you all how to live, and is forcing their beliefs down your throats, truly sling insults and venom, I would be against it, and I would voice it, if I actually found myself visiting a thread like that, (which I usually don't).
If I saw this activity happening in totally unrelated threads, I would take the same stand.
And, as with this person's post, if it was a poorly crafted AND negative post, I might make fun of it, become sarcastic, make some jokes, in an effort to get the point across, without actually trying to tear somebody down.

By the way, does anybody else think that the existence of words that have "ie" or "ei" are part of some insidiously annoying conspiracy?
Oh no. Now my enemies no my weakness!

[edit on 23/1/10 by ThePublicSpirit]

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 02:55 PM

Originally posted by dalan.
I would like to point out to all of the naysayers here who are preaching that "drugs are bad m'kay?"

That there is a family of psychedelics called the tryptamine family, and it houses Dimethyltryptamine ('___'), Psilocybin (shroooms), and Lysurgic Acid Diethylamide ('___'/"acid").


'___' has the longest "trip" duration lasting for about 12 hours, with psilocybin lasting from 6-8 hours, and '___' lasting only about 30 minutes.

Now, the biggest difference is that, even though '___' is the shortest-acting tryptamine, it is the most powerful.
My argument is more that the laymen is not meant to be using these drugs casually, by themselves, for fun or without instruction. I won't go into all the posts I gave that support this position again.

Finally the mind-blowing part is that '___' is produced by human beings in the pineal gland:

Our bodies also make "poop".
And whether a substance is natural or not, occurs in the body or not, it doesn't mean that it should be "DisneyTime".
This stuff is to be respected. It isn't. Again, comparing individual, unsupervised, uneducated, non-traditional, and/or underage use, to use by Traditional Spiritual Leaders and Scientists, with all of those supporting characteristics, is irresponsible. It probably shouldn't even be discussed here.

I would also like it to be known that the pineal gland is not actually apart of the brain. When a fetus is forming in the worm
OK, I just thought this was funny.
You said "fetus is forming in the worm". Hehe.

cells in the roof of the mouth collect to form this gland, where, after a time it makes its trip upward to sit nuzzled by the brain.
Well, nothing that forms on the roof of the mouth can be all bad.

Now, it is the pineal gland that produces '___', but, we know that '___' is only produced at two special stages in a humans life. Once at a specific stage of fetal growth (after about six weeks of conception when the pineal gland is mature enough), and again after death.

The "trip" on '___' is actually very coherent, and there is a doctor who did a five year scientific study of the compound on human volunteers. He basically injected his volunteers and had them record their experiences to help us find out WHY A HUMAN BEING ACTUALLY PRODUCES A PSYCHEDELIC. His findings point towards our consciousness, and that we do in fact exist beyond the body.

Also, the ASSUMPTION that an hallucination is "imaginary" is simply bad logic. It is the same logic our ancestors used when they peered out to the horizon and decided that the Earth was flat because that is how it appeared from their perspective. There is no evidence to suggest that a '___' trip is not a real experience, likewise there is no evidence to suggest that it is real.

More research needs to be done.
Not arguing any of this. It is very interesting, and I have delved into this off and on for years.
I just don't think the use is for "Joe Blow" sitting in his basement. Or, kids.

[edit on 1/23/2010 by dalan.]

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 03:34 PM

Originally posted by wylekat
reply to post by CHA0S

I have been thinking about this quite a bit lately as well and I have come to the conclusion that the world thrives off of ignorance and any individual who has half a brain that attempts to sift through the lies of this earth and try to find the truth is immediately looked down upon by their peers.

My ex boss (a christian) was like this. I was nothing more than a drooling moron who couldn't bang rocks together, according to him. The man refused to grasp simple scientific facts. The fact I was light years ahead of anything he knew made him extremely abusive towards me.

In contrast, I was talking to someone about something they learned on 'are you smarter than a fifth grader'. This woman was a 5th grader in the 40s. Not to insult, but she's truly ignorant of space travel just from disinterest and not learning much about in school. The subject was 'largest galaxy outside of our own'- Andromeda. I expounded what I knew, and her eyes glazed over a bit, but she at least appreciated what I told her. She's not a 'christian', either.

Honestly? Why would ANYONE want to spend eternity with a bunch of ignorant, abusive lunatics like this is beyond my ability to understand!
Um... Yeah.
Thanks for chiming in with the positive comment!
I can see that you must really be uncomfortable around ignorant, abusive people.
Hehe. Holy Crap!

posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 03:44 PM

Originally posted by yesIAM
reply to post by CHA0S

I agree with you completely. Christianity or religions are the first to judge & cast the first stone. In history, religion has done nothing, but stop the growth of humanity. If a person was to think differently than the church, they were excommunicated or exterminated. Because the knowledge threatened their power. Every religions teachers even taught this. And look what happened to them they got exterminated.
Galileo discovered we revolve around the sun and not the earth the Catholic church [the power at the time] put him on full house arrest. what a way to treat someone so bright. Religion to me has done nothing but destroy our building of knowledge. It is the only way it can remain having control of the people. People truly love being enslaved by a system. The slave never realizes it is a slave.
Could you imagine how beautiful this living experience could be if people just used there minds. They did not fear what they think or the judgment of others. They could look at that rambling bum on the street & say "WOW he may have a point." If they looked at everything as equal. Everything. When people stop putting others or objects above themselves and start living for themselves and treating everything [not just people] like they want to be treated.
People if you have intelligence to read, PLEASE WAKE UP FRIEND do not be confined by religion. When you look outside the box it is so freeing. Religion loses its power over you then. Then you are taken full self ownership.
I am so glad you are wrong. Otherwise, we wouldn't have all the technological breakthroughs that exist today!

My usual question, after making a statement like that, is: Don't you see the turmoil that the world is in today? There LITERALLY is no use of, or sign of "Right" or "Wrong".
And, whether you want to admit it or not, there used to be.
There is a need for a Moral Compass.
Unfortunately, we are all seeing the signs of this.

The Pendulum swings both ways.

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