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If Jesus Is God.......

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posted on Jan, 27 2010 @ 10:32 AM
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this is crazy, it like posted it a whole bunch of times, sorry

[edit on 27-1-2010 by miriam0566]




posted on Jan, 27 2010 @ 10:32 AM
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another sorry

[edit on 27-1-2010 by miriam0566]



posted on Jan, 27 2010 @ 10:32 AM
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someone lease buy me a new computer...

[edit on 27-1-2010 by miriam0566]



posted on Jan, 27 2010 @ 10:32 AM
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another... sorry

[edit on 27-1-2010 by miriam0566]



posted on Jan, 27 2010 @ 10:32 AM
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triple post, sorry

[edit on 27-1-2010 by miriam0566]



posted on Jan, 27 2010 @ 10:32 AM
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double post sorry

[edit on 27-1-2010 by miriam0566]



posted on Jan, 27 2010 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by oliveoil
I'm stating that you do not need a Bible to figure out ones nature. Jesus' nature was, and is, one with God. Thats a capital "G". Common sense tells us that a goat is of nature of a goat. A horse is of nature of a horse. A dog is of nature of a dog. A man is of nature of a man. Gods only begotten son is of nature of himself. No one can deny this truth. The Bible, as I have confirmed many,many times backs this up. Mirimum is right 1+1=2.But what she has failed to see is that 1+1=2 share the same nature. That nature being that they are all numbers. These simple truths can not be denied.


this is what i mean... even the most basic of things you cant seem to comprehend.

1 nature doesnt mean same person.

saying that Jesus is made in the same nature and God DOESNT mean they are the same person.

besides that, Jesus the man was not the "nature" of God.

heb 2: [16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

so even when you are talking about "nature" of things you are wrong


I could very well tear down your theroy opposing that Jesus is not God by using Bible quotes. However, I feel that, whats the point if you can not even grasp natural law and basic common sense sunday school Biblical theory. Is there anything we can agree on?


no, you cant.. so you wont...

[edit on 27-1-2010 by miriam0566]



posted on Jan, 27 2010 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by teapot
To deny the Divinity of Christ is to not know the nature of God.
I think the word here, divine, meant righteous.
I don't think anyone is denying that.
Jesus has attributes of divinity ascribed to him but being like God in certain ways does not necessarily make him God.
Having a picture of Jesus and claiming him to be God and worshipping him as such seems to me to be something that could be included as being repudiated by Paul.
Romans 1:22, 23

Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image resembling mortal human beings. . .


[edit on 27-1-2010 by jmdewey60]



posted on Jan, 27 2010 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 



I know I said I like your posts…lol

...But you’ve just posted, 11 back to back post’s on this thread…

Well done…




- JC



posted on Jan, 27 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Joecroft
I know I said I like your posts…lol

...But you’ve just posted, 11 back to back post’s on this thread…

Well done…


my computer rapid fired.... its not my fault :bnghd:

i just hit send and then there were all these posts....



posted on Jan, 27 2010 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by rileyw
]We need to understand the reality that the early dogmas
were attempting to formulate. To understand that one cannot explain
Mystery in absolute terms.


the reality the early dogmas were trying to create was a pagan one. a pagan belief system where trinities replace the oness of GOD. where pagan sun worshipping dates are celebrated in the name of christ

this was so that they could convert.

not everyone is interested in truth and and not everyone likes to break away from local tradition. make christianity palatable to the pagans and your pews will stay full



The Trinity does not 'replace the oness of God', and the doctrine of
the Triune God is rooted in Scripture.

Acts of the Apostles---the execution in Jerusalem of the first
Christian martyr, Stephen, accused of blaspheming against Moses etc.
Stephen gives a general description of Israel's salvation history from the call of Abrahsm to the prophets and as a justification of his Christian faith,
appeals to "the God of your ancestors, Abraham, isaac and Jacob"

Just before his death he had a vision- "Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit,
gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus at God's right
hand. "I can see heaven thrown open and the Son of Man standing at the
right hand of God" And the Spirit was with him.

All three are mentioned at the baptism of Jesus (Matt. 3:16-17)

The disciples are to baptize in the name of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Matt. 28:19).

Yet, God is still preached as the one God (Gal. 3:20).

Yet Jesus proclaims his own deity (john 8:58)

Jesus evokes and accepts the faith and worship of his disciples (Matt. 16:16; John 20:28).

The developed Pauline blessing includes the grace of the Son, the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost (II Cor. 13:14).

Reference is made to the election of the Father, the sanctification of the Spirit, and the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ (I Pet. 1:2) in relation to the salvation of believers.

The reality is found in Scripture, the dogma but a formulation of it.



posted on Jan, 28 2010 @ 01:19 AM
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reply to post by rileyw
 

The reality is found in Scripture, the dogma but a formulation of it.
A formulation?
Take an ingredient here, add an ingredient there, mix this with that. . .
Good choice of words, there, brother.
Only problem is the dogma part.
A weapon in the hand of tyrants.
A tool to bring death to all heretics.
The destruction of the true Apostolic line, to be replaced by dogma supporting, power worshipping co-called converts of paganism.
The real theologians were brushed aside in favor of party loyalists.
It taints the whole concept of an officially formulated trinity and makes it an abomination.



posted on Jan, 28 2010 @ 04:15 AM
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Originally posted by rileyw
Acts of the Apostles---the execution in Jerusalem of the first
Christian martyr, Stephen, accused of blaspheming against Moses etc.
Stephen gives a general description of Israel's salvation history from the call of Abrahsm to the prophets and as a justification of his Christian faith,
appeals to "the God of your ancestors, Abraham, isaac and Jacob"

Just before his death he had a vision- "Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit,
gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus at God's right
hand. "I can see heaven thrown open and the Son of Man standing at the
right hand of God" And the Spirit was with him.

All three are mentioned at the baptism of Jesus (Matt. 3:16-17)

The disciples are to baptize in the name of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Matt. 28:19).

The developed Pauline blessing includes the grace of the Son, the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost (II Cor. 13:14).

Reference is made to the election of the Father, the sanctification of the Spirit, and the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ (I Pet. 1:2) in relation to the salvation of believers.


so let me see if i understand your logic... because they are mentioned together, this is proof that they are the same god?

so by you logic, Abraham, Isaac, and jacob are the same person right? i mean they are mentioned together in several places....


Yet Jesus proclaims his own deity (john 8:58)


umm no... he said that since before abraham, "i have been"

that is not claiming to be god. satan was alive before abraham and he is not god. the angels were alive before abraham and they arent god.

he was not lying either (since the "firstborn of all creation" would have been alive before abraham)

and if you knew anything about the original languages (hebrew and koine) you would realize that he wasnt even quoting


Jesus evokes and accepts the faith and worship of his disciples (Matt. 16:16; John 20:28).


matt 16:[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

problems reading? doesnt say thou art god does it?

john 20:[28] And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

so an entire doctrine based on something jesus never said, but thomas did... interesting...

let me ask you, a man walks out of a store to see his car has been hit. he exclaims "oh my god!"

is he calling the car his god?

[edit on 28-1-2010 by miriam0566]



posted on Jan, 28 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 



quote; so let me see if i understand your logic... because they are mentioned together, this is proof that they are the same god?>

Abraham, Isac and Jacob, formula for the Patricrchs, nothing to do with
the doctrine of the Trinity.

quote; umm no... he said that since before abraham, "i have been" >

The Greek word for "came to be" is the one used of all creation in
the prologue, the word for "am" is the one reserved for the Logos.


quote: matt 16:[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

problems reading? doesnt say thou art god does it? >

And Jesus answering him;" Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona; becaues flesh and blood
hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven."

In the trinitarian formula Jesus is never referred to as God, always God

the Son, never the Father.


quote: john 20:[28] And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.>

Refers to the first verse of the Gospel, "and the Word was God."


“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:18-19).

quote: let me ask you, a man walks out of a store to see his car has been hit. he exclaims "oh my god!"

is he calling the car his god? >

A colloquialism, has nothing to do with anything.



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by rileyw

so let me see if i understand your logic... because they are mentioned together, this is proof that they are the same god?>


Abraham, Isac and Jacob, formula for the Patricrchs, nothing to do with
the doctrine of the Trinity.


but you are citing the fact that they are mentioned together as PROOF that they are one... which is frankly ridiculous. just as ridiculous as claiming that abraham jacob and isaac are the same person.



umm no... he said that since before abraham, "i have been" >


The Greek word for "came to be" is the one used of all creation in
the prologue, the word for "am" is the one reserved for the Logos.


where do you get this crap from? "am" is reserved for logos?!

"am" (to be) is the most common word in any language.... ever...

to say that it is reserved for logos means you have no idea what you are talking about.

as for the tense, koine works differently than english. the present perfect tense (which is an action that starts in the past and continues to the present and even beyond) is rendered in present simple in koine. koine's present perfect is actually like the english past perfect (an action that starts in the past and finishes in the past.

jesus was literally saying "i am" but to translate it, it should be "i have been"

king james scholars intentionally render it "I AM" in capitals to force a connection with exodus. in other words, they made it up.

even the hebrew of exodus 3:14 is mistranslated.

אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה
can be "i cause it to come to pass"

jesus was not quoting exodus




matt 16:[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

problems reading? doesnt say thou art god does it?


And Jesus answering him;" Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona; becaues flesh and blood
hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven."

In the trinitarian formula Jesus is never referred to as God, always God

the Son, never the Father.


show me one scripture that refers to jesus as "god, the son"

fact is you wont find it in the bible because its not true



john 20:[28] And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.


Refers to the first verse of the Gospel, "and the Word was God."


"was a god"

learn greek.


“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:18-19).


if jesus is god, then why is power given to him?

if god is all powerful and has all authority, then it is IMPOSSIBLE to give him more.



let me ask you, a man walks out of a store to see his car has been hit. he exclaims "oh my god!"

is he calling the car his god?


A colloquialism, has nothing to do with anything.


has everything to do with it!

your quoting a colloquialism and letting it determine doctrine!



posted on Feb, 4 2010 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 



quote; Abraham, Isac and Jacob, formula for the Patricrchs, nothing to do with
the doctrine of the Trinity.

but you are citing the fact that they are mentioned together as PROOF that they are one... which is frankly ridiculous. just as ridiculous as claiming that abraham jacob and isaac are the same person.>

The account is from Acts and concerns the imminent execution of Stephen.
In his defense Stephen gives a general description of Israel's salvation history
from the call of Abraham to the prophets, appeals expressly to "the God of your
ancestors, the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob." I cited it to give Stephen's
trinitarian vision a context. No one familiar with the 'God of our fathers' formula
could possibly relate it to a trinity.




Quote; The Greek word for "came to be" is the one used of all creation
in the prologue, the word for "am" is the one reserved for the Logos.

where do you get this crap from? "am" is reserved for logos?!

"am" (to be) is the most common word in any language.... ever...

to say that it is reserved for logos means you have no idea what you are talking about.>


John's gospel presents a unique style and vocabulary. In order to interpret it is necessary
to understand how the original audence would have understood since it was written for
their time and culture. John states what the early Christian community believed concerning Jesus. It is the author's intent to convey what is believed to be the
truth concerning Jesus, the beginning of a Christology.

Hebrew has no tense in reference to time, the I am of Exodus becomes the name of God,
("Thus you shall say to the Israelites "I AM has sent me to you." The form " I am" in the
Greek of John is the exact form of the Septuagint of Exodus 3:4.

This would have been clear to John's audience, familiar with OT, that before Abraham came
into being, God was already at work in human history, this same God is before you in
Jesus the Christ. They would have understood this by the statement "Before Abraham came
to be, I AM.


quote; jesus was not quoting exodus>

These are not Jesus' words, they are the evangelist's. Clearly, Jesus would not have been
called God in his lifetime.

quote; john 20:[28] And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.


Refers to the first verse of the Gospel, "and the Word was God."


"was a god"

learn greek.>>

kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos. The debate about the third line centers on the fact that theos is used without an article. Clearly, in the second line ho theos refers to God the Father. However, the author may have been trying
to suggest that the Word is somewhat less then the Father.
"No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, who is at the Father's side, has revealed him." (Jn1:18) "God the only Son" ([ho] monogenes theos.)
Includes filial relationship with the Father. So the Logos is "only Son" and God,
but not Father/God.

quote; “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:18-19).


if jesus is god, then why is power given to him?

if god is all powerful and has all authority, then it is IMPOSSIBLE to give him more.>>

It is a reference to Daniel 7:13-14 where one "like a son of man" .....

But what this does provide is perhaps the clearest expression in the New Testament of trinitarian belief. Probably the baptismal formula of Matthew's church.



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 08:29 AM
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He is the anointed of God Messiah, that is his word you should spread not thti if or not he is God.



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 08:32 AM
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I have a bible form HarperCollinsPublishers

Matthew 17:20 It was because you haven't enough faith, answered Jesus. I assure you that if you have faith as big as a mustard seed, you can say to this hill, Go from here to there! and it will go. YOU COULD DO ANYTHING!.

Matthew 17:21 IS NOT THERE

So in fact they deleted Jesus words how to drive this demons out and say there is no way to drive them out.

Matthew 17:21 But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.

Collins is one of the 13 satanic bloodlines.



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by AeosGuru
He is the anointed of God Messiah, that is his word you should spread not thti if or not he is God.



I think the question/debate concerned whether or not any foundation
for trinitarian doctrine cound be found in Scripture. Clearly there is.


It is not my intention to 'spread' belief in a trinity.



posted on Feb, 7 2010 @ 03:21 AM
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Originally posted by rileyw

Originally posted by AeosGuru
He is the anointed of God Messiah, that is his word you should spread not thti if or not he is God.



I think the question/debate concerned whether or not any foundation
for trinitarian doctrine cound be found in Scripture. Clearly there is.


It is not my intention to 'spread' belief in a trinity.


It is not important important is to follow Yeshua/Jesus in your life.
But the trinity seems is paganismus like most of the roman doctrine.



[edit on 7-2-2010 by AeosGuru]



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