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If Jesus Is God.......

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posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by pasttheclouds
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


you can't find what you dont search.
I give what i can give, and other people who are meant
to communicate will do it, after they understand the message.
they are michael, and they have a fight to do.



Here are the unwise in the face of truth. :bnghd:

Here is me after contemplating what you are saying.




posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by pasttheclouds
 


quote; so instead of understanding verse by verse,
we try to understand the goal,
this will explain us the parts.

Most first try to understand the verses
before they understand their god.>>


Am I correct in understanding that you are here referring to the
unity of the Bible, that the 'verses' ought to be understood in the
in light of, as they relate to the whole?



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 05:32 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566
actually you take alot out of context. i may not reply alot to your posts, but i do read them.

while you speak very eloquently and you obviously think about what you believe it, alot of times its simply opinion.

you use one scripture to prove a point but disregard the rest that disagree.

your quick to use the passage that jesus and the father are one, but you disregard the passage where jesus explains exactly what that means.


Where is that passage? If I take something out of context, then show me the correct context. Where are the verses where Jesus says otherwise, because I have to see them. But there are plenty of references to the father being within and so forth, which is what I know.

If you can show me that the Jesus says otherwise, then I will gladly drop the bible and never quote it again.





how do you test or "try" the spirit?

2 tim 3:[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

acts 17:[11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.


Paul...



if a spirit tells us that death is not real, do you think logically that spirit is from god? (gen 2:16,17) what do most religions tell us happens to us when we die? do they not perpetuate the same lie satan said when he said "you will NOT die"?

what if a spirit tells us that there is a hellfire, is that spirit from god?

there are lost of spirits.


2 births, 2 deaths. All men die the physical death. The 2nd death is the death of the soul, which is what Jesus does not die when is why he was risen and is why he has everlasting life.

If you read Genesis closer, you will see they are removed from the garden to protect the tree of life, and those who follow the way of the tree of life. Because men will not keep the way of the tree of life, they are removed from the garden/quarantined on this planet.

eh, forget it. I've grown tired of trying to help people.



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 06:10 AM
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reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


come on you
you always forget the context
If you throw something away question it first
so you are sure about what you throw away, you know that system of working allready, im sure. what did i mean ?

i am not made to communicate very well, its something i can't change,
look to you and badmedia, you are both very good in explaining.
I try to skip the steps of growth i allready did, and i talk from a total logic, it is very difficult for me not to talk from the whole..
ask me logic, and i will give it. and logic has many un-equalities before
it makes equal. Something fighters for equality do not want to see truth
because its a hard truth, but the world is not equal, our souls are,
our penny, that what we pay at the end of time will be equal.
But sorry before the times of salvation our pennies are spread out different. The bible i clear about that, and logic is too. Only by seeing around you can see we are different, our souls are maybe the same, when they do become one in the will of god. not before.

Michael is the archangel , the prince, the son,
everybody living from a no way back from that truth,
becomes Michael, he does not have choice anymore
then to do. Michael is those that become the son.
Michael is a state/spirit that stands at the door of heaven,
it is the son, it means no rest, and not having any choice
anymore then to reflect until the end.

I talk the symbols to explain them, not because i like them.

If you dont agree, then tell me with what you dont agree,
so i can defend and explain it to you.

The end is equal, the start is unequal in this life.
If we fight for equality, we first have to see what
we can learn from the differences. There are people
made in destiny, denying that will not make equality come
sooner for all. It is pure logic, beliefs had to be believed
in their right time, to make logic optimal, without this
optimality god falls from exsistence. The god thing is nobody will ver be able to proove to theirselves he lives an exsistence of destiny, and that's why the cross for them will be much harder. There is written israel will pay double. Israel in one level means all believers, in another level it means remnant. In revelation there is written 7000 and 1/10th after the earthquake, 2 different meanings. Logic needs pillars in time.


[edit on 23-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 06:12 AM
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reply to post by rileyw
 


ofcourse the verses have to be understood by the context
of the whole, by the context of the god you choose.

The bible is made dual. A kid can tell you, it is strange that a god can be love and allow an earthquacke in Haiti or a prophet as elijah to kill other priests. There is no lie about that.
Wars were fighted when the message is love. The law is very clearly love,
so how does that fit with violence and insanity ? Does god judge or set free ?

The holy books are made dual in it's first view, in the deeper levels the duality becomes love, but there is no deeper level without seeing the
contradiction = duality first.

there is a reason why there is written 'iron will fight iron'
there is a reason why jesus said don't be lukewarm, its better
to be hot or cold, but still say you will not judge or be judged,
you will love as the commandment above prophesies and bibletexts.
there is a reason why the bible writes Ephraim will be laid to waste,
destroyed, and the NT says israel will be saved.
there is a reason why elijah saw in israel only 7000 real israelis,
remnant, and a reason why groups of tribes had different names for the same areas. There is a reason for the difference in offers, and that reason is not eliminated by one general offer at one point of time. There is a reason why the languages of the bible leave room for interpretation, there is a reason why relgion expects an antichrist, and there is a reason why jesus said no to the devil in the dessert and still had all power on earth, what is the difference ? there is a reason for a 2-part glorification and a reason why jesus was glorified BEFORE the literal cross. There is a reason why god decided what both pharaoh and Babalylons king would think and do. There is a reason why job knew pain is not the result of sin. There is a reason why the bible mentions the sin against the spirit above other 'sins', there is a reason why the bible states 'you will have done miracles in my name, but i will not have known you", there is a reason for the change in significance from lucifer and satan in the old testament to the new meaning growing out of the new testament. There is a reason for all that, and no church is giving it to you.

when does religion explain ?
they will not. Because delusion was promised.
Where is the delusion if tomorrow a person and may more will shine as the sun ? Parts of religion will be able to sell the delusion instead of understanding it. But the whore will it be guilty ? for their speed of understanding maybe yes. But there is something worse. Ignorance, which is the sin, choice against the spirit.



[edit on 23-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 06:27 AM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


dont get tired.
What does wrong is mostly something else
then ignorance. When we care we become actually guilty of everything
by our accusations, so we can forgive everything. it means setting god free of accusations, but the accusations stay until the very very last moment. If someone cant hear us, and fights us it is because we were that stubborn not to hear too, so after it we could understand better. thats a lion and a u-turn of a believer. I don't like it either, but acceptance will fight first. Ignorance will say 'oh yeah, right' and move on.
iron will fight iron.

Thats why hate is a form of love, by fighting you are seeing,
ignorance doesn't fight, they do not make their hands dirty.
They wash their hands in innocence.
God is selfish, still forgives himself.
He is one, we don't have to fight selfishness in its quality,
we have to 'fight' selfishness that closes the eyes for itself.
God knows he can be free by setting himself free.
He allows the devil to dissapear because there is only god.
Where there exsists evil, there is no God in sight.
It means as long one thing is not forgiven, God is not seen.



[edit on 23-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by pasttheclouds
 


I don't mean it in a bad way, just not going to repeat myself in response to general accusations. I don't think it would matter either way, so no point in going further.

Apparently, "out of context" around here means "not the mainstream dogma" rather than the verses around the ones being quoted.

And yes, I do realize these things are no different than ways I've acted in the past, sorta. Although it is more true when dealing with atheists and their arguments rather than religious people, as I was not a religious person before I came to understanding. So with atheists, it's like arguing with myself moreso, but in terms of a more general way of thinking, then it is the same in either case.



[edit on 1/23/2010 by badmedia]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 12:15 PM
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religious fundamentalist thinking people who are always fighting take a very big cross on them, they don't have peace. They are not bad, but sometimes they preach against their selves. But without them the world would not be complete. And i know this is easier to say then feel.
There is a significance in the symbol of Dan and the division of the Levites, and other tribes, and the division of 'israel' in blessing and curse
and it's exactly that. They were promised to be hardened. It's more then spiritual meaning, in this significance it is also very literal. The Eastern religions understand this phase very well too. It is the negative of the motor. I generalize to make points clear, religion in not bad, more a dual caring thing and both peacemaking and painful tool of existence more then one of guilt. In a way the blessing comes forth of the mistakes of the curse, but the negative has to put itself under such a pressure it avoids acting out that curse, by removing the curse thoughts of their mind before they act it out. Thats why ignorance will create monsters. Its the lesson of Rwanda. it's the lesson of the world wars, it's the lesson of the killers formed by insanity. People avoid seeing the human in them, but they are as animals, insecure and in such pain, they are not free to handle different anymore. It is the most difficult thing to understand because it hurts to only think about it. its really a cross to forgive god. Only preparation (cross) will make people avoid to let insanity take them over. those that are in judea flee to the mountains, to wisdom. Woe to child bearing woman in those days, it means those that grow the son better do it before the winter starts. There is still time to think, once that time will be gone and the hurricane will start its path of cleaning. Seeing fear releases fears, but by tears. That time will be one of eye for eye (accusations reflecting back), and teeth for a teeth (what you break will break you).
First the sun and moon will prepare. Those that will be called false, when the moon becomes full it will be eclipsed, when the prophet son of man becomes full they will turn red. And meanwhile winter will have started and the peace that people expected will be fall away. The moon will bring hope but will not take away the cross of the people, and will set the example after spreading the gospel of love, the oneness of god. The parts of destined religion that did not prepare enough will attack this message because of their non preparation. People think when a prophet will come he will bring peace, but he will be not believed after a while, because of the promised delusion that allows people to pay their crosses also. The religions talk about a saviour, but first there will be a aspect of the saviour as cry OUT of the wilderness but showing love into that wilderness. the mirror of john. Second the sons, the saviour, michael will stand up, and fullfill the life of jesus which was a miror, once, times and half a time as a group again in history. But they will fullfill hope when people expect them to bring not hope but peace. They will bring reflection, not full peace yet. And while the son is born the peace will turn in hurricane. Relgion will start to understand who the whore was , they will return and in that day ignorance will end their false peace and the beast awake to destroy the whore. the 2 horns of the beast. the seven hills of both rome (mirror of god) and jerusalem.

If i say religion, i dont speak about christianity only, or about buddhism only or about hinduism only or about atheism only, which are all religions. It means that an atheist can react on a christian, and you still have 2 religions fighting each other. Truth contains the structures of all those heads, those heads are dual, mirrors. one for the beast (symbol: rome), one for god (symbol: jerusalem) . Atheisms true side is scepticism, and it makes logic (repenting) and creates the head of one religion oneness, which is the total of all religions. Becuse every religion has or the truth in it's right side, not the mirrorside, (the 3 abrah. religions) or 'the way' contained in it's just side, the eastern religions for example.


[edit on 23-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]



posted on Jan, 23 2010 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 



I thought I would attempt to answer the questions in your OP…perhaps I will get lucky lol

Hopefully this will help to clarify the points you are trying to make, in a simple way…


1.Why is he called the “firstborn of all creation?” Col. 1:15, Rev. 3:14, John 1:14

Because God first created Jesus…



2. Why did he say he did not come of his “own initiative”, but was “sent forth?” John 8:42

Because God sent Jesus, to do Gods will…



3. Why did Jesus not know the “day and hour” of the Great Tribulation but God did? Matt. 24:36

Because God is greater than Jesus…



4. Who did Jesus speak to in prayer?

Well, he did not speak to himself lol… he was speaking directly to the Father God



5. Why did Jesus say “the father is greater than I am?” John 14:28

Because it is true and all the great things Jesus did, were done through the power of God…



6. How did he “appear before the person of God for us?” Heb. 9:24

Well, you can’t appear before yourself lol



7. Who spoke to Jesus at the time of his baptism, saying “this is my son?” Matt. 3:17

God, through the Holy Spirit…



8. How could he be further exalted to a superior position? Php. 2:9, 10

Only God could give Jesus the authority to do the things he did…Jesus never claimed to be superior and saw himself as a humble servant. Jesus even states, that we will do greater things than himself…

John 14:12 NIV

I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.




9. How can he also be the “mediator between God and man?” 1 Tim. 2:5

because Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in him…



10. Why did Paul say that “the head of Christ is God?” 1 Cor. 11:3

Jesus even states himself, that The Father is greater than him…

John 10:29 NIV

My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all…




11. Why does Jesus "hand over the kingdom to his God” and “subject himself to God?” 1 Cor. 15:24, 25

because Jesus does the will of the Father…




12. Who does he refer to as “my God?” John 20:17

God the Father, who is in heaven…



13. Who is referred to prophetically at Prov. 8:22-31

Jesus!



14 How does he sit at God’s right hand? Ps. 110:1

Because Jesus is not God…he is only one with God, in the sense that, they both stand for the same things…



15. Why does John say “no man has seen God at any time?” John 1:18

because Jesus is not God… no one has ever seen God, they have only heard Gods voice through the prophets accounts in the Old Testament and through Jesus, in the New Testament.



16. Why did he ask not to be called “good” saying “nobody is good, except one. God?” Luke 18:19

because only God is good…



17. Why does Daniel say “to him were GIVEN rulership...?” Dan. 7:13,14

because God gives Jesus the authority…once again, you can’t give authority to yourself…



18. Why did people not die when they saw Jesus? Ex. 33:20

because Jesus is not the Father God...



19. How was Jesus dead and God alive at the same time? Act 2:24

This is right up there with the question…How can God die on the cross? But too answer the question, because God raised Jesus from the dead…



20. Why did he need someone to save him? Heb. 5:7

Because all of Jesus power and authority, comes directly from God…


- JC



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 02:21 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


You seem to pretty much understand it, congratulations.

I liked how you answered this one the best.



14 How does he sit at God’s right hand? Ps. 110:1

Because Jesus is not God…he is only one with God, in the sense that, they both stand for the same things…



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by badmedia
Where is that passage? If I take something out of context, then show me the correct context. Where are the verses where Jesus says otherwise, because I have to see them. But there are plenty of references to the father being within and so forth, which is what I know.

If you can show me that the Jesus says otherwise, then I will gladly drop the bible and never quote it again.


john 10:[30] I and my Father are one.

john 17:[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

jesus was directly comparing this and the father's oness with the oness of his followers.

several things we know...

- his servents are not one person.
- his servents must work to be united, it doesnt come automatically (obey commands from jesus, believe the same doctrine etc etc)

even the tense "that they MAY be one" shows that this is referring to unity in purpose.

even the apostles used this expression....

1 cor 3:[8] Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

was paul really saying that him and apollos were one person?

no, that they were united in purpose. same goal, same thinking.

what disturbs me those most, is how quickly you are willing to throw away the bible when it disagrees with your thinking...





how do you test or "try" the spirit?

2 tim 3:[16]

acts 17:[11]


Paul...


paul nothing... jesus even quoted from the scriptures regularly. why would the son of god need to do that?

why would paul be an apostate when the apostles even accepted him.

how about peter...

2 peter 3:[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

this is from the same guy who was immediately able to see through ananias and sapphira's treachery (acts 5, written by luke). but i guess with paul he's not as perceptive right?



eh, forget it. I've grown tired of trying to help people.


you base your whole philosophy on a handful of scriptures, but then you disagree with the scriptures that contradict your reasoning.

let me ask you a question, and im being serious,

how do you know which scriptures are truth and which are not?

if its by spirit, why would god let his word be corrupted sooo much that only you can see its true meaning? because truth be told, your way of seeing the scriptures is unique.



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 05:09 AM
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Originally posted by TarzanBeta
You should realize QUICKLY that you are not reaching the Father without Christ.


did you ever ask yourself why?

did you ever hear of the ransom? jesus' death is sometimes called a "ransom sacrifice". have you ever wondered what it was a ransom for?

1 timothy 2:[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

the reason you cannot approach god without jesus isnt because they are the same person. quite the opposite actually. its because sinful mankind cannot approach god without a mediator. our sins deny us approach to god.

now answer me this... can the judge also be your lawyer?

if there i a conflict of interest if the judge is also your lawyer, then how can jesus be mediator for us to god if he himself IS god?

he cant.



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 06:03 AM
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take care with bible translations. You can or would throw away the real teachings of jesus, just to keep the peace IF not carefull.

5. For one is God and one is the reconciler of God and humanity -- (Jesus) Christ the Son of Man

It means (jesus) christ, the son of man
meaning CHRIST = annointed
meaning jesus AS/IN FUNCTION OF son of man,
and the son of man is the reconcilir. are all the prophets. is you.

the bible translations always put jesus where it is means (jesus) christ,
which is another meaning. Christ has another meaning then
just being the lastname of jesus, christ is not a lastname.
And a lastname is a family = family = elohim.
Why did the apostles call jesus christ, to give him a new lastname,
or to make him complete. Christ means son of man, he who is in the annointing. Jesus was glorified, that day he became the christ, not before.
glorified is being one in WILL with god. thats the meaning of christ, and thats where you wish to go to.

The friends of jesus called him the christ, the annointed one.
before glorification = jesus from nazareth/ Gal. /etc
after glorification = jesus (the) christ (jesus is only a translation, Eashoa) jesus christ = one with god = 1.

so jesus christ means = one being one with god
which means that there is only god.




[edit on 24-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]



posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by badmedia
Where is that passage? If I take something out of context, then show me the correct context. Where are the verses where Jesus says otherwise, because I have to see them. But there are plenty of references to the father being within and so forth, which is what I know.

If you can show me that the Jesus says otherwise, then I will gladly drop the bible and never quote it again.


john 10:[30] I and my Father are one.

john 17:[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

jesus was directly comparing this and the father's oness with the oness of his followers.

several things we know...

- his servents are not one person.
- his servents must work to be united, it doesnt come automatically (obey commands from jesus, believe the same doctrine etc etc)

even the tense "that they MAY be one" shows that this is referring to unity in purpose.

even the apostles used this expression....

1 cor 3:[8] Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

was paul really saying that him and apollos were one person?

no, that they were united in purpose. same goal, same thinking.


Ok, but what you are forgetting is that the father is within. I understand this manner of "oneness" you are talking about, and in the manner of doing the right things and so forth it is true. Among those with true understanding their should be the basic oneness in purpose and so forth. But that does not mean the father is not within, nor does it mean that this is the only way Jesus talks about the father within - which is what I am talking about.



what disturbs me those most, is how quickly you are willing to throw away the bible when it disagrees with your thinking...


Don't care honestly. I would throw the bible out completely rather than just accept what it says. It's not "my thinking", it's what I was taught/shown and made to understand. I do believe the bible and specifically Jesus is an expression of that understanding, but if it turns out that I am not understanding it correctly, then I will reject the bible.

I never accepted the bible or religion before I came to understanding, and at no point do I plan on it in the future. If you can show me understanding and so forth, then I am thankful. But if you think I must up and accept things because of a book, then I won't do it. While I do believe it is that expression, the expression itself is not the point.



paul nothing... jesus even quoted from the scriptures regularly. why would the son of god need to do that?


Jesus obviously never quoted Paul, and Paul constantly contradicts things that Jesus says. Do you think Jesus quoted scripture because it was scripture, or because he had undersanding and was quoting the scripture for the benefit of the people?




why would paul be an apostate when the apostles even accepted him.

how about peter...

2 peter 3:[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

this is from the same guy who was immediately able to see through ananias and sapphira's treachery (acts 5, written by luke). but i guess with paul he's not as perceptive right?


Paul just plain out contradicts Jesus.





you base your whole philosophy on a handful of scriptures, but then you disagree with the scriptures that contradict your reasoning.

let me ask you a question, and im being serious,

how do you know which scriptures are truth and which are not?

if its by spirit, why would god let his word be corrupted sooo much that only you can see its true meaning? because truth be told, your way of seeing the scriptures is unique.


Again, I do not base my whole philosophy on ANY scripture. I am so freaking sick of having to say this over and over. If you want to believe I am only basing things off a few bits of scripture, or if you want to denounce me for such then be my guest. But I am getting sick and tired of the accusation.

I know which are true and which are not true in the same exact manner you know 1+1=2 is true and 4+4=94 is false.

The father is within, the "oneness" you are talking about is just the fact that those who do the will of the father and so forth will all act in the same manner, which is to keep the commandments and follow the "way of the tree of life".

If I am unique, then it is because I did not learn from the bible. I only try to see where the people in the bible are talking about the things I learned, not the other way around.

You can dismiss it if you want, that is your choice. But to me, the fact that Jesus suddenly made sense to me and was in line with my understanding is not just a coincidence. I don't think it's just a coincidence that the understanding behind the commandments was given to me, and that understanding is exactly the same as that of Jesus.

All these things I came to understand. Not told, but was made to understand. And not by man, I did not learn this from any man, and I am not just repeating what I learned. It's not like I needed to be deceived or anything, because I didn't believe in religion at all. I was an atheist/agnostic and already disliked religion alot more than I do now. But my questions and such were answered.

I can't even explain the difference between receiving from the father and receiving from the bible/men. Other than to say that when you get it from the father, it's just pure understanding, a language we can not speak to each other. The bible is simply an expression of that understanding and is in a language that men can speak.

As for how much that can be corrupted, there is no limit. Would go allow such a thing to happen? Well, considering the rest of the evil in the world, let me ask you - why not? I couldn't even begin to count the number of times it's been used for evil purposes. Any number of things and writings have survived for such periods of times, are those also in the same category?



posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 01:23 AM
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what exactly does paul contradict ?
in his growth he maybe sounds like doing it,
but in essence and symbology he actually agrees
with the gospel totally, from a perspective
that opens many doors to what 'truth', as real truth,
is.

the church does not like to understand this,
but paul and jesus were in progressive revelation,
until the glorification, that's why jesus reflected all the time,
but the essence is very much the same,
and paul adds to the explination of gods mystery.

i agree salvation is not connected to something outside you,
but the outisde become your inside and will reach
you things, as long as the thought is salvation is me without the body,
there is a part that will scream to come in

the body gives you more truths.

oneness means enlarging the body and the brains



[edit on 25-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]



posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by pasttheclouds
 


By what contradictions, do you mean other than the teaching of the blood sacrifice as a "free gift", that it is through the sacrifice that one is saved, that he tells people to call him father, that he sets up a structure of authority among men in the name of god, which is exactly what the Pharisees had done before and him being a Pharisee only changed it over to Christianity? Because there is more if you mean other than those things I can name some more.

Taking up symbolisms and praising those symbols/idols is exactly how the manipulation and such works. These are wolves in sheeps clothing. It happens in all things, politics, religion, anything where there is power to be gained. The person praises the symbolisms, and because of such the people themselves automatically think they are of what that symbolism stands for.

It is in this manner that the true "magic" of the world happens. It's magic that gives tremendous power. Movies like Harry Potter, while entertaining, depict "magic" as being able to conjure up fire and so forth. But the true sorcery and power is gained from the people themselves. The symbolism and such is a relic, and to carry the symbolism will bring power among the people who follow that symbolism.

GWB is a recent example of this. Did what? Carried and pushed the symbolism hardcore, all the while working actually against these best interests and was basically working for someone else. But the people for a period of time ate it up. On the TV, the American flag and the symbolism is everywhere, being promoted. Meanwhile the actual principles themselves are eroded, manipulated and ignored. Eventually the spell wears off, but the power gained during that time is enormous.

So, praising things and having symbolic things doesn't mean anything to me. Idols and symbols are used in large part as a way of blinding people to keep them from understanding. Becoming literal replacements for that which they were meant to express, or who's meaning has been manipulated with time.

Big difference between the religion of Jesus, which would be to follow his way and so forth, and the religion about Jesus, which is what Paul teaches and is Christianity.



[edit on 1/25/2010 by badmedia]



posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 09:59 AM
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Jesus is Lord of All.

Jesus changed EVERYTHING.

Jesus is pivotal to human history. Even the most staunch of atheist will not denigrate the message of Love that Jesus taught.

Jesus made it clear, through Him, we may all KNOW the Father.

Jesus made it clear, we are each so precious that each hair on our heads is known and counted by the Father.

Why do so many feel this means we must each have the same understanding of God's presence in our lives. We are EACH precious and must each follow our own path. In my opinion, all paths lead to the Cross. Many are so staunch in their refusal to contemplate the Cross, that they fail to grasp the very possibility of God.

Jesus is Lord of All. He is was and will always be. He is the only being that has ever been reported to have known existance in Heaven, on Earth and in hell.

In my understanding, Jesus was more than a mere blood ransom. He had a job to do after crusifiction and He did it well! He broke the chains of hell and conquered death.

Christ is Lord of All.

The Resurrection changed everything.

The Ascension changed everything.

The Spirit of the Living God is now.

Only with God are all these things possible.



posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


Hey Miriam…Welcome back …
I haven’t seen you around in ages…Where have you been…

anyway...It’s good to see you back




Originally posted by miriam0566
his servents are not one person.
- his servents must work to be united, it doesnt come automatically (obey commands from jesus, believe the same doctrine etc etc)


Ironically it is the doctrines that come from man, that are keeping Christians separated, rather than uniting them.



- JC



posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


you defend a god that was one, still you can not see him in his teachings,
this is different but still the same as religion, they do not want to see how oneness works. Truth is for kids (gods people), try to think simple.
there is nothing contradicting in pauls teachings, even when he didnt understand it yet himself : ) One means ALL power ALL optimal. No coincidence, no randomness in this world.

the bloodsacrifice is the blood of the oneness, the full son of man on the end of time,

blood is a symbol also, and the cross is carried by god,
when someone becomes in salvation he obtains everything from god,
the whole cross and the whole sacrifice. Jesus was not only one in mind,
also in power and might, after his glorification.
This will happen again, to be accused by the ones living in delusions as to be false.

the day you see someone in salvation, he carries you in him before you are one with him, you defend oneness, so learn how that oneness
works and functions, it is not the dogma of the church,
but it is also not without function and power,
god is free, if he comes on the earth it is to give people choice, not to take way from their own cross, AND to take an extra cross, that extra cross
makes god who he is, bigger then himself.
He is everything, still he can give more to himself then what he is.
That's why they take an extra cross, they could enter the heavens,
which they don't to bring and live HOPE by allowing themselves to
be prisoned in the fish. After salvation god will imprison himself
to fullfill the function.

jesus was a mirror of this, of gods bloodsacrifice,
but the blood that god gives, comes through all of us,

because jesus was one, it came before it happened, including the present,
allready by him, because he is one with all time,
but also we will become that. salvation means becoming one, the body is all, including the future and the past are your body, including all the crosses of everyone in salvation.

There will be again avators of god on earth, before paradise so few.
salvation yes, comes though you, but this does not mean the other parts of you, as one, do not help you to get there.

so yes you are right, but also yes, you do misunderstand.

equality is the goal at the end of time, before that there is inequality,
that allows us to make equal, even when it already is.

it is until this day not understood, how the son of man works in LEVELS, in STAGES. Oneness does not mean it cant come back
before others become one, it means it can do this, and will, because most optimal.

People will go through that delusion, if they did not prepare enough.
understanding why life allows this hell, is the thing to understand now.
Optimal has to be lived. The paradox, the dual side (the lie), has no respect for individual life, except for those that prepare. If people allow randomness, randomness will control them. We live in gods inversion,
and there is the choice to be made.

im going slowly out of the discussion,
what i wrote is not meant to be written out in beautifull language
before it allready happened.
there is nothing mystical about that, logic is optimal,
Until now everything i wrote on ats was reflection,
progressive, and also that has an ending.

take care you, you also are almost home.
oneness is more then romantic feelings,
there died millions and billions of people in this world in history for gods reason, his cross,and to be equal also this generation will
carry a cross. Those that prepared have less to carry.
The people of Haiti did not suffer judgement but release of judgement,
what they paid, they are free off. And for all there is one price, an equal price. This is not creating fear, it is avoiding fear.
Preparation sees before it comes and spreads the cross so it is possible
to bear it, who does not prepare and wants to come home, will carry much in short time.


[edit on 25-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]



posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
1. Why is he called the “firstborn of all creation?” Col. 1:15, Rev. 3:14, John 1:14
2. Why did he say he did not come of his “own initiative”, but was “sent forth?” John 8:42

3. Why did Jesus not know the “day and hour” of the Great Tribulation but God did? Matt. 24:36
4. Who did Jesus speak to in prayer?
5. Why did Jesus say “the father is greater than I am?” John 14:28
6. How did he “appear before the person of God for us?” Heb. 9:24
7. Who spoke to Jesus at the time of his baptism, saying “this is my son?” Matt. 3:17
8. How could he be further exalted to a superior position? Php. 2:9, 10
9. How can he also be the “mediator between God and man?” 1 Tim. 2:5
10. Why did Paul say that “the head of Christ is God?” 1 Cor. 11:3
11. Why does Jesus "hand over the kingdom to his God” and “subject himself to God?” 1 Cor. 15:24, 25
12. Who does he refer to as “my God?” John 20:17
13. Who is referred to prophetically at Prov. 8:22-31
14 How does he sit at God’s right hand? Ps. 110:1
15. Why does John say “no man has seen God at any time?” John 1:18
16. Why did he ask not to be called “good” saying “nobody is good, except one. God?” Luke 18:19
17. Why does Daniel say “to him were GIVEN rulership...?” Dan. 7:13,14
18. Why did people not die when they saw Jesus? Ex. 33:20
19. How was Jesus dead and God alive at the same time? Act 2:24
20. Why did he need someone to save him? Heb. 5:7


20 questions to ponder and seriously mediate on.




Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 23 Jan 2010 by Hellmutt]



Here is some simple logic maybe you can understand

What would a son of a goat be? a goat.
What would a son of a horse be? a horse
What would a son of a dog be? a dog
What would a son of a man be? a man
I think you get the point. The son of God (Jesus) would be, simply put, God. You dont need a Bible to figure this out.



[edit on 25-1-2010 by oliveoil]




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