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If Jesus Is God.......

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posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by TarzanBeta
Let's see... my brain moves my body by means of the nervous system. My God moves my Lord, Christ, by means of the Spirit.

Basically, if you were to tell me that you were not talking to my body, but only to my mind, I would have to tell you that you were crazy. You cannot communicate with my mind if it were not for my body.

Man cannot reach the Father without the Son.

The Father is the mind. The Son is the image which the mind has created for itself. In fact, the mind's first imagination was His Son!


so according to this analogy, you call your body your son. and sometimes you refer to it as your servent and beloved.

im sorry but this doesnt fit reality

jesus has to be a separate person. its the only way the scriptures make any sense




posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 08:44 AM
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Jesus is labelled 'the son of God', and yet we are told we are all God's children. Why is he so special, then? ^^



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by Modwolf
 


Because he was the only being created directly by "GOD" all other beings and matter in the universe were either created through Jesus as the master worker or as a biological result of what God put in place to populate the planet.

This son is very special, and he has unique and special privileges and responsibilities that no other being will ever have.

Also of note is Jesus Christ power is so great that GOD has given him god status, to be highly respected but not worshiped.

Satan is also called a god in the bible, but this status was never given to him, he took it on his own, without GOD's permission.

Satan is the opposite god to Jesus as a god, one leads the Angels the other the Demons. And the god that leads the angels would also be known as the Archangel too.

It all makes perfect sense, there is no mystery if you understand the bible.



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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To be brutally frank that was a joke. I thought it was the kind of thing you do on BTS.



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by Modwolf
 


Fair enough, but you will find that the "Religion, Faith, And Theology" part of BTS is more serious, than other parts of the BTS.

Over the years we have had some very serious discussions here, thus I thought your inquiry was serious.

Anyways it allowed me to address some other points, so thank you.



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 04:25 PM
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Isnt that abit like chicken before the egg thing?

Maybe he should be on Oprah he can get closure over how exactly
he's related to Mary.



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by DiscoDave

Isnt that abit like chicken before the egg thing?

Maybe he should be on Oprah he can get closure over how exactly
he's related to Mary.


Interesting you should say that. Man came before woman. Now that's a bit like chicken before the egg thing.

Blue_jay33, it seems then that your only real qualm with me then is that I believe that I worship Jesus Christ as it is the same as worshipping the Father. I simply don't understand who you're worshipping. If you do not offer glory to Christ, you are not doing what the Father has said.

Other than that, it looks like you have a perfect grasp on the reality of everything else. Good job, as most aren't able to imagine it.



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by TarzanBeta
 




I simply don't understand who you're worshipping


I will answer that with a picture

GOD




God's Son


Yeshua (Hebrew)
Jesus (English)


They are not the same being(thus the different names), yet we glorify the son with the highest honor and respect.
Best example is a King and his son which is a Prince, if you honor and respect the Prince, by extension you do that to the King.

Direct worship of Jesus Christ that eliminates glory to his Father is wrong and actually idolatry.

Thus the Trinity actually promotes idolatry. A disqualifying sin to life in the future. That's why I spend so much time trying to show people the truth of this matter. Literally millions of Christians are accidental idolaters.
I view Christendom's clergy as very guilty and accountable to God in this matter of dogma. They should know better, why they don't is another topic altogether.



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 01:48 AM
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It's the father and son relationship. The father and son are seperate, but if you find the father, then you will see that the 2 of you are 1. Just as Jesus did.

Funny enough, I just got done quoting this in another thread/topic.

If you look at John 10, you will find that when Jesus is pressed about this question, all he does is quote Psalm 82.



Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.


This is right after the Jews accuse him of being the devil to put it in perspective.



John 10

24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30I and my Father are one.

31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.


38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.


So, it's all about the father and son relationship in how they are 1. This is not just true of Jesus as modern Christians like to claim. It's true of ALL - the entire point is to realize it and so forth, which is to be born of spirit.

When you are born of spirit, then you are born of the father and then you will see how you and the father are 1. Of course, you will also see the path of the tree of life, and so like Jesus says - you will do as he does, you will keep the commandments, and so forth. Which is how Jesus says you can know he is telling the truth.

I will attempt to explain the father and son relationship.

When you come to realize what is truly "you", then you will realize that you are spirit/consciousness. The flesh and the physical is seperate from the spirit/consciousness of reality.

The consciousness/spirit within you is the father and of the father. But while the father is all knowing, all powerful and omnipresent, you are on the other hand are not. In fact, you are of a limited perception on your consciousness.

This limitation we have is needed in order to have the experiences we have. I'm sure you've heard me speak of the movie film in regards to this topic, if not I can explain it.

So, Jesus realizes he and the father are one, but that the father is much greater than he is.

But this is true of all, this is why he tells you that god is your father too, and to call no man your father.

So, take the consciousness within all. Put it into a limited perception and that is the son. Put it in the unlimited perception of that which is all knowing and so forth, and that is the son. Father becomes the son in order to have these experiences. Each life is an experience of the father, and the flesh/physical is just information and what is experienced.

Jesus realized and understood these things. He found the father within, and as he found the father within he did what he did. He understood why death wasn't real, the way of the tree of life and so forth. While most people are worried about their flesh and working towards the flesh, he saw the spirit within him.

Jesus is god, the only deception in regards to Christianity and this is that he is the only son of god. This is because in John 3:16, it says only "begotten" son of god. Which I think is speaking of the above, being the first/only to recognize and realize these things fully in the manner he did.



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 05:02 AM
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Originally posted by badmedia
It's the father and son relationship. The father and son are seperate, but if you find the father, then you will see that the 2 of you are 1. Just as Jesus did.


it amazes me that lots of people including spiritual and abstract thinkers cant seem to take this scripture as anything but literal.

one does not mean literally the "same spirit"

it is an expression that denotes harmony, unity.

john 17:[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

christs follows are not literally one. nor are they literally the same spiritual entity.

true follows of christ are united. they arent divided into sects. they dont have different theologies. they are united in completing the work jesus set out for them.

jesus compared this unity with the unity he has with his father.

genesis 2[24] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

men and women dont have a literal tether. its a figure of speech. they are united. and just as siamese twins cant simply walk away from each other, so should it be with a couple.

"one" is not literal



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 05:06 AM
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Originally posted by TarzanBeta
I simply don't understand who you're worshipping.


thats the point of the trinity. you are so busy worshipping the son, you forget the father.

satan wants worship for himself. but i think a recurring theme of the bible is that one thing he wants more is for people to stop worshipping god. even if he can get them to worship a tree, it better to him than worship to god.



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 05:06 AM
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Originally posted by TarzanBeta
I simply don't understand who you're worshipping.


thats the point of the trinity. you are so busy worshipping the son, you forget the father.

satan wants worship for himself. but i think a recurring theme of the bible is that one thing he wants more is for people to stop worshipping god. even if he can get them to worship a tree, it better to him than worship to god.



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566
it amazes me that lots of people including spiritual and abstract thinkers cant seem to take this scripture as anything but literal.

one does not mean literally the "same spirit"

it is an expression that denotes harmony, unity.


I base my understanding of what I was speaking of there not on scripture, or the literal. I based it on experience and having experienced that. In fact, it was the experience and understanding of the father and son relationship which lead to ALL the rest of the understanding.

It was also that Jesus talked about this relationship and things which go along with it that caught my attention about him.

But there is separation while on this earth and in this form, it is our individuality. Seperation/individuality is the function of the soul.

In the end, there is only 1 observer and only 1 who experiences all things, and that is god/father. The separation which is in itself a result of a limited perception is required in order to have this "experience", or life. But in the end, all things follow the will of the father and that includes choice and your free will.

I also gained quite a bit of understanding from trying to come up with "AI", but rather than "artifical", I wanted the real deal. I found that things such as "choice" do not exist in the realm of the physical. It is logically impossible to have a "choice". Things of nature, including your body have no choice in them. They are all action and reaction and thus based on logic.

But we do in fact have choice, we are in fact observers - another thing you can do logically. Think about the brain and your physical reality for example. The eyes are said to collect light, that light is then converted into an electrical signal which travels to the back of the brain, where the image is then presented as the image in which "you" see. What is that image presented to? Chemicals reacting with other chemicals bring about consciousness and the ability to observe, feel and so forth? No. These are all things functions of the father/spirit. The father within you is what makes these things possible. Without the father within you, then you would be just like a robot, having no choice, no free will and observe and understanding nothing. Soul-less beings if they do not have the father within them, and robots do what they are programmed to do - no free will. It's impossible to even generate a random number with logic.

Because what is really "you" is only this spirit then you can start to understand why death is not real, and why Jesus say to fear no those who can kill the body, but only that which can kill the soul - the father.

And if/once someone comes to realize what they truly are, then they will also know who their father is, just as Jesus did. Thus, you must be born of the spirit.

True enough, those things will hold true among those with understanding and so forth. But while these things may not all be "literal", they are definitely things which will and must be experienced, such as the birth of the spirit.

We do have a reason for the separation, but that separation is merely an illusion. So, if you are looking "out" in the world, then all you will see is the separation. However, within the spirit all is one - but the father is much greater than any of us in our limited perceptions. "We" as individuals are separate from the father, but the father is within.

Some think this individuality from the father is a bad thing, I do not. I realize the truth and so forth, but I understand the reason for it. I have been to where there were only 2 beings in existence, me and the father, and that was as far as I could go and maintain that individuality. If I were to go beyond that point then "I" and my individuality would have been lost.

I try to quote scripture to back up and show people what is being said. But these are things I experienced and know for myself. I was an atheist/agnostic before I experienced such.



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by badmedia
I base my understanding of what I was speaking of there not on scripture, or the literal. I based it on experience and having experienced that. In fact, it was the experience and understanding of the father and son relationship which lead to ALL the rest of the understanding.


in other words, you disregard the context of the scripture and replace it with your own opinion which is based on your feelings.

im sorry, but god's spirit doesnt work the way you describe it. it doesnt just show you how things are done, nor does it contradict god's inspired word (inspired through the spirit itself)

if the spirit is showing you something that contradicts the bible, then i would second guess where that "spirit" comes from

1 john 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


Miriam that's a great post, I have said similar things like that in other threads, but you just explained better. Thanks for contributing.
It is a point that needed to be made in addition to the 20 questions.



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by pasttheclouds
Do you want God to write the bible again then ?
Do you want Truth to allow you to see Him ?
Or was Jesus his example not the effort worth ?

3 questions.


god didnt write the bible
man did



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566
in other words, you disregard the context of the scripture and replace it with your own opinion which is based on your feelings.


What did I take out of context? Nothing.



im sorry, but god's spirit doesnt work the way you describe it. it doesnt just show you how things are done, nor does it contradict god's inspired word (inspired through the spirit itself)

if the spirit is showing you something that contradicts the bible, then i would second guess where that "spirit" comes from


#1. Who the heck are you to say how "god's spirit works"?

#2. The bible contradicts itself.

#3. Nothing replaces the spirit itself, no word of god which has been changed multiple times, selected by politicians and chosen by men on terms of what is accepted, and how it is understood.



1 john 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.



Speaking of context, how about the next 2 verses rather than using the 1 verse as a way of accusing that which I know as "false" and me as a "false prophet".



1 John 4

2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


And funny enough, the entire reason I took to Jesus in the first place is because I knew he was of god and I understood what he was saying.


[edit on 1/22/2010 by badmedia]



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by l neXus l
 


If truth didnt create the bible,
then there is no truth.
because truth is absolute, and absolute means responsible.

truth likes questions.
so if man wrote the bible or not,
is a question of manner, not of origin.



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


your whole post of unity and one not being literal
is one of contradiction. Maybe honesty is the way
towards understanding ? god is truth, maybe that's why
he loves honesty.

A kid can see the bible LOOKS contradicting,
which not means it really is.
But how do you want to understand it,
when avoiding the first look.
Do you date a guy without a first look ?
Do you pick your god without a look, without asking a question ?
Thats a casino, jesus told us to avoid blind faith.
but test the beliefs if they are from a God that is one.

Unity means being one means being literal means spiritual.
it means one. One does mean it is not divided.

If jesus says i am one with the father,
it was meant literal, in human eyes still spiritual,
because of blindness.

Is god absolute ? yes or no
so is there something outside absoluteness ? yes or no
if there is a no answered, is god god ?
which does not mean you are not a believer.
believing is a fight in blindness first.

One only has one side,
duality left it. it means both spiritual and literal as one.
If you dont believe jesus why defend him ?
Or is it the 'me' that you think is satan
that you are defending. Maybe there is God found,
in that 'me'.
But if you like to lie to yourself,
how can you find Truth(God) in yourself already ?
The 'me' that does not want to see the real 'me'
is ignorance, by ignorance there is safety found in lies.

Every human (live in) lies, so this is not an attack.

Cuidate. Nuestro dios, nuestra verdad, es amor.
El ley es amor.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia
What did I take out of context? Nothing.


actually you take alot out of context. i may not reply alot to your posts, but i do read them.

while you speak very eloquently and you obviously think about what you believe it, alot of times its simply opinion.

you use one scripture to prove a point but disregard the rest that disagree.

your quick to use the passage that jesus and the father are one, but you disregard the passage where jesus explains exactly what that means.



#1. Who the heck are you to say how "god's spirit works"?


me? im no one.

i use the bible. i quote the bible. usually to the dismay of people on this forum.

1 john 4:1] Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

how do you test or "try" the spirit?

2 tim 3:[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

acts 17:[11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

these are not my sayings. i did not write the bible


#2. The bible contradicts itself.

#3. Nothing replaces the spirit itself, no word of god which has been changed multiple times, selected by politicians and chosen by men on terms of what is accepted, and how it is understood.


#1 you are wrong. many transcripts show that the bible is mostly unchanged.

#2 if you have faith that the spirit can explain things to you, why cant you have faith that god can preserve his own word?



Speaking of context, how about the next 2 verses rather than using the 1 verse as a way of accusing that which I know as "false" and me as a "false prophet".



3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:



this scripture explains 1 point. not all.

if a spirit tells us that death is not real, do you think logically that spirit is from god? (gen 2:16,17) what do most religions tell us happens to us when we die? do they not perpetuate the same lie satan said when he said "you will NOT die"?

what if a spirit tells us that there is a hellfire, is that spirit from god?

there are lost of spirits.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by miriam0566]



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