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USA - 2010 Politics Discussion Forum-No flaming!

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posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 07:19 PM
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My hope is this thread will be a fair, intellectual discussion...

I have a few simple questions...

1) Why do you think BROWN won the most recent election?

2) Should President Obama move to the right?

3) Is 'healthcare' over? Is that good or bad?

4) Is President Obama ABLE to choose on his own? Or is he 'be-holden' to the left that got him elected?

Thoughts friends?

Do you have other questions we should ponder?

OT




posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
1) Why do you think BROWN won the most recent election?



Apparently he was chosen by GOD.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

2, Obama move to the right.
He's a neocon puppet!! of th Big Corps.

3. Health care was always doomed by the insurance co. and big pharma.

4. see #2

As for the last question....When will we invade other ME countries?



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 07:32 PM
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I thought to get the discussion started I'd pull today's NPR article...below: link: www.npr.org...=122758019&ft=1&f=1003

Excerpt:

For Democrats, Mass. Loss Triggers Finger-Pointing: by Liz Halloran
The recriminations began long before the votes confirmed Republican Scott Brown's stunning capture of the Massachusetts Senate seat held for nearly five decades by the late Democrat Edward Kennedy.
Brown's election Tuesday imperils Kennedy's self-described life's work of overhauling health care, a Democratic initiative the senator-elect had promised to kill during the campaign. It also instills fresh dread in a party that will face increasingly restive, anti-government voters in the fall.
Confronting the loss of their 60-vote supermajority in the Senate and repudiation in a blue state, disoriented Democrats across the country, from the White House to local party workers, spread the blame liberally.
Heard On 'Morning Edition': January 20, 2010

Election Loss Tarnishes Obama's First Year
And, increasingly, at President Obama for failing to convert his historic White House win and personal popularity into a coherent national vision that would keep the public on his side.

Many Democrats were looking to Obama to win back the disillusioned independents who helped put him in office, as well as to provide their party with a narrative that would convince constituents back home to buy into the president's ambitious agenda. Others wondered whether those ambitions were just too great.

As Republicans began to take their victory lap, the Democrats' intra-party blame game was only beginning. Many were quietly taking stock of why the party, riding high just a year ago with a new president in the White House and control of Congress, had fallen so fast. They also asked what they could do, during a time of continued economic distress, to turn around the story in time to salvage the rest of Obama's agenda and stave off disaster in November's mid-term elections.
- Peter Fenn, longtime Democratic strategist


= = =
'Wake-Up Call'

"This is a very welcome wake-up call," says Raymond Buckley of New Hampshire, a national party vice chairman and head of the Association of State Democratic Chairs. This kind of reflection "didn't happen after Democrats lost the governor's races in Virginia and New Jersey — but everyone is going to pay attention to this election."

Coakley's loss will be less welcome to other Democrats. But the Massachusetts contest certainly got Democrats' attention in the House and Senate, where party leaders now face the nearly impossible hurdle of getting some form of health care legislation to Obama's desk before Brown is sworn in.

"Throughout this campaign, we had the machine scared and scrambling," Brown said in his acceptance speech Tuesday night. "And for them, it's just the beginning of an election year filled with many, many surprises."

He added, "When there's trouble in Massachusetts, rest assured there's trouble everywhere, and they know it."

Darren McCollester/Getty ImagesMassachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley acknowledges defeat Tuesday at the Sheraton Boston in Massachusetts. Some Democrats said she came off as a lackluster opponent whose campaign couldn't be salvaged.
Some Democrats, including longtime strategist Peter Fenn, caution that Massachusetts presented a perfect situation for a populist like Brown. A lackluster opponent in Coakley and an unpopular Democratic governor both contributed to Brown's victory. But, Fenn says, the results do reflect a "national mood that's incredibly toxic when it comes to the economy."




posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by OldThinker
1) Why do you think BROWN won the most recent election?



Apparently he was chosen by GOD.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

2, Obama move to the right.
He's a neocon puppet!! of th Big Corps.

3. Health care was always doomed by the insurance co. and big pharma.

4. see #2

As for the last question....When will we invade other ME countries?


whaaa, hi there friend!

It has been a while...thank you for the post and your opinion...

OK, what are ME countries? pls let me know....

OT



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker




OK, what are ME countries? pls let me know....

OT


Mid Eastern



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa
As for the last question....When will we invade other ME countries?


To answer the question, from my perspective, we will invade IRAN, with ISRAEL, if Iran is found to have nuclear capability...not sure if that's right or wrong, but OT's opinion...

Others?



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 07:57 PM
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I appreciate the post OP, but what is the end game of this thread other than opinions? We need to quit bickering on issues of the left, right or center and try to come up with real answers to the problems that America faces. All we see today is many threads, blogs and news just informing us of the problems, but giving no answers. We need to quit fighting amongst ourselves and start trying to come up with solutionsto the problems we face today. That would truly be something new and refreshing.

We have great minds here on ATS! Lets try to come up with real solutions.

Peace!



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
My hope is this thread will be a fair, intellectual discussion...

I have a few simple questions...

1) Why do you think BROWN won the most recent election?

2) Should President Obama move to the right?

3) Is 'healthcare' over? Is that good or bad?

4) Is President Obama ABLE to choose on his own? Or is he 'be-holden' to the left that got him elected?

Thoughts friends?

Do you have other questions we should ponder?

OT


I hope so too! Fair, intellectual discussions are becoming rare - even here.

1. Several reasons. From all I hear he ran a very good campaign and she ran a poor one at times. Along with that she (along with Obama) seemed out of touch at times - something Obama is kind of admitting to now, in a way..

President Obama: We Lost Touch with American People Last Year


"If there's one thing that I regret this year is that we were so busy just getting stuff done and dealing with the immediate crises that were in front of us that I think we lost some of that sense of speaking directly to the American people about what their core values are and why we have to make sure those institutions are matching up with those values."
.....
The president said he made a mistake in assuming that if he focused on policy decisions, the American people would understand the reasoning behind them


I disagree with him somewhat here. I think that on some things the people have said, "We dont' like this!" - and the admin and congress simply does not want to hear it. His take seems to be "if we just explain it more the people will see it our way".

That isn't to say things are golden for Republicans now either - remember, people were fed up with them about a year or so ago too.

2. He has to listen to the people and that may move him right or left depending on the issue. Its like this - if one guy tells you, "I think your tie is ugly" you may be able to dismiss him. If a million people tell your tie is ugly - then chances are it is an ugly tie. So far he and congress have been saying "I don't care what you say - I have the best looking tie ever!!" to the nation. Listen to the people - you work for them. You'll never make everyone happy. But strive to make the most happy while doing what is best for the nation. That's the best advice I could give him. Don't forget the little guys - they voted you in and they can vote you out. Its their country after all.

3. To early to tell - but its been kicked about for how many years now? Even its "over" it won't be over.

4. Ahhh - now here is one where we get into the sticky mud of US politics. Of course he is beholding. Before this he was a jr. senator and is a product of the Chicago political machine - the question is "Who is he beholding too?"







[edit on 20-1-2010 by Frogs]



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by Guzzeppi
I appreciate the post OP, but what is the end game of this thread other than opinions? We need to quit bickering on issues of the left, right or center and try to come up with real answers to the problems that America faces. All we see today is many threads, blogs and news just informing us of the problems, but giving no answers. We need to quit fighting amongst ourselves and start trying to come up with solutionsto the problems we face today. That would truly be something new and refreshing.

We have great minds here on ATS! Lets try to come up with real solutions.

Peace!


'G'

Great post...I have been a good-standing member for 5 yrs now...the ATS leadership, have given the greatest minds, from all over the world, an opportunity to make a difference...

OT, too, joins with you hoping for real answers, over the course of this thread. I appreciate your thoughts, your heart and the time you took to post.

Let's sit back together and see the wisdom come, ok?

Again, thank you friend for joining!


OT



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 08:14 PM
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pls click the above link, for more on the MASS vote specifics....
OT

PS: As an aside why could I not post the graphic, instead of the link? Am I doing something wrong...

'OT' needs some 'IT' help



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 08:25 PM
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One tidbit I heard on the radio on Tuesday was a reporter from Mass. He made one interesting point about people in the State who were very pissed-off with government in general. Apparently sometime within the last few years the people of Mass. passed a referendum that capped the State income tax to 5% - well, the politicians ignored the referendum like it never happened...wow...talk about "deaf ears."



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by bowlbyville
One tidbit I heard on the radio on Tuesday was a reporter from Mass. He made one interesting point about people in the State who were very pissed-off with government in general. Apparently sometime within the last few years the people of Mass. passed a referendum that capped the State income tax to 5% - well, the politicians ignored the referendum like it never happened...wow...talk about "deaf ears."



good post, I didn't know....

talk about pissing the people off!!!


I wonder how they couldn't see the pushback?

Thx for the new info here!
obviously there is more to the story, who would have thought a dude with a TRUCK could have seen this coming



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 



1) Why do you think BROWN won the most recent election?


To decrease the chance of 'Obamacare' passing. Massachusetts is a a blue state. It's the only thing I can think of.


2) Should President Obama move to the right?


I think he needs to ease up a bit on the hard left leaning but in the end, it really doesn't matter.


3) Is 'healthcare' over? Is that good or bad?


Statically according to the people, it seems so. Of course, what the people want and what the government does hardly ever matches. And I do want socialized health care but do not want what is currently being proposed. So I am considering this a good thing if the reform bill is dead.


4) Is President Obama ABLE to choose on his own? Or is he 'be-holden' to the left that got him elected?


He can technically do whatever he wants. He is able. However, in politics you have to play the game so probably not.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by Frogs
 


Frogs, thank you for the very thorough response


OT



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
........

4) Is President Obama ABLE to choose on his own? Or is he 'be-holden' to the left that got him elected?


He can technically do whatever he wants. He is able. However, in politics you have to play the game so probably not.


AshleyD, honored you have stopped by....thank you!

I, too, agree, he can choose for himself. And I'm hoping he will?

Time will tell, huh? Let's see what others think, ok?

OT



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 08:56 PM
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I'm actually convinced that "Health Care" is a smoke screen. Good if you get it, fine if you don't - you can still play off it. It is the Exec. orders & other fine rights reversals Obama has done while we have been watching where the magician points that concern me.

I think Obama is bought & paid for just like his fellows on the Left & the Right. I think he is following the Bush agenda in cutting back individual liberties with "free speach & guns" up there on the list. Before I found out he was kin to Chaney & Bush I saw the morph of Bush to Obama & thought they looked a lot alike. I guess they think a lot alike as well.

I heard Brown reported as an "Independent" Republican. We'll find out.
It may be that the Dems & Reps will try & co-opt the Independent movement so that whichever side wins it is all the same side.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
1) Why do you think BROWN won the most recent election?
2) Should President Obama move to the right?
3) Is 'healthcare' over? Is that good or bad?
4) Is President Obama ABLE to choose on his own? Or is he 'be-holden' to the left that got him elected?
Do you have other questions we should ponder?

OT


1) The economy I think has the most impact. With so many people out of work many voters are frustrated with whoever is in power. People are worried about the future of the nation and there own financial stability. That being said the health care bill is a real motivating factor.

2) I think he will become a little more stubborn and push harder left, knowing they are going to lose numbers at the end of the year. Basically, push through everything he can.

3) No I don't think it's over, but I think it is about to face a big re-write. Obama wants something to sign and I think he will get it. I think it will only add more regulations to the current private health care system. Overall, not do much good or bad.

4) Beholden to his controllers, the ones who put him in power. Probably, the same elite that put Bush and Clinton in power as well.


[edit on 20-1-2010 by Ace High]



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 09:33 PM
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Brown, won on his good run, and the fact it seems mass, wants something differant. Its not why he won, its he won in Mass....... Way to soon to judge lets see how the midterms turn out..

Obama, can't move to the right..... He can't because politically he would look like he does not want everyone to think he looks..


Healthcare is not over.. Its good.. It will be debated.. Perhaps be the best thing our government amends for the people.. HOPEFULLY.. Big wish..

Obama, cant move from the left.. Could be what gets em in the end..

I think if it get too bad.. We will get some dog wagging as well, for that distraction, or position to get us to rally behind Obama, if he starts sagging..

politics as usual oldtimer...


I think if Obama, has a heaven cent, he needs to start working on the economy thou... More important to healthy Americans outta work.. Lots of em as well...



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 09:55 PM
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Thanks guys for the posts....

It's late here, I'll check back tomorrow

OT



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 10:04 PM
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Brown won't do a goddamn thing. He's a paid shill there to do his owners bidding.

Baby, Obama is about as far right as you can go right now. I don't know where this delusion that he's a leftist or a liberal is coming from. The expansion of illegal wars, openly protecting the theft of billions of dollars by the speculative classes, and over-seeing the destruction of the American middle class. I really don't know how any of that is perceived as "leftist"

Let's hope health care is dead. It's a great notion and would be a good thing for the American people in theory. However, with the evil corrupt #ers running the show right now. They couldn't even get a cup of coffee right without screwing it up and costing several million in the process. I'd like to see America take another run at health care once this country grows up and gets it's act together. However, that'll probably never happen.

Obama is owned by Wall-Street. He just screwed the left out of their vote. But make no mistake about it, Obama doesn't give a # about anything except what his owners want.



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