Filmmaker Geert Wilders faces hatred charges.........

sometimes reality supercedes ideals- and Wilders is bang on the money..........

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

Agree with those statements or not......the fact is the same and worse is said about other religions world wide. And yet, only hate speech seems to apply when Islam is mentioned in a negative light. This is ridiculous and should not be allowed.

Yes but would you please not forget the position of the person saying these things. Worse may be said about other religions but are they also stated by a popular politician???

You see, i see a small resemblance to an other historical figure with bold statements that had a lot of support from the people. We now know his version of freedom of speech as antisemitism.....

I guess as long as the majority agrees, anything you say can be considered freedom of speech but are we not forgetting a little thing called respect??

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime


He's right and because of immigration in Europe their industry of tourism is being destroyed. Their welfare systems are being taken advantage of by immigrants. The whole culture and beauty is changing.
If muslims are going to immigrate in droves at least they should bring something desirable... instead they are not.
Burning cars in Paris. Shooting up Ft Hood. Planning massive terrorism attacks in NYC, Denver, and Toronto. Those are a tiny portion of examples.

reply to post by operation mindcrime

Is it respectful that Wilders is getting death threats from muslims?

Originally posted by operation mindcrime


Religion has no place in politics!!!!

There are 57 OIC (Organization of Islamic Countries) that are Religious politically. Their laws are religious laws. Their citizens abide by these laws. Their citizens expect these same laws to carry over to countries they immigrate to.

Originally posted by JJay55
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

Is it respectful that Wilders is getting death threats from muslims?

Among people who do not respect one and other this would be seen as a logical cause-and-effect...

Peace

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by operation mindcrime


Religion has no place in politics!!!!

There are 57 OIC (Organization of Islamic Countries) that are Religious politically. Their laws are religious laws. Their citizens abide by these laws. Their citizens expect these same laws to carry over to countries they immigrate to.

Their citizens expect this? or do you expect that their citizens expect this?

I would really like you to elaborate on this a bit because i know a few Muslim people and they tell me they do not expect this. In fact the very reason they left was because of the interference of religion in their politics.

Peace

Originally posted by JJay55
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

He's right and because of immigration in Europe their industry of tourism is being destroyed. Their welfare systems are being taken advantage of by immigrants. The whole culture and beauty is changing.

You actually mean that you do not like to share. You are loosing something and now you have to blame something or somebody. In the last place yourself, of course.

If muslims are going to immigrate in droves at least they should bring something desirable... instead they are not.

I really hope that you do not ever find yourself in the position that you are forced to immigrate. I will expect you to bring many things to enrich my life or else you are not welcome.....???

Burning cars in Paris. Shooting up Ft Hood. Planning massive terrorism attacks in NYC, Denver, and Toronto. Those are a tiny portion of examples.

So Muslims equal terrorists.....???

Now you know why i don't like Geert Wilders. It is not so much what he says but it is the group of people supporting him.

Peace

[edit on 21/1/2010 by operation mindcrime]

Originally posted by operation mindcrime

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by operation mindcrime


Religion has no place in politics!!!!

There are 57 OIC (Organization of Islamic Countries) that are Religious politically. Their laws are religious laws. Their citizens abide by these laws. Their citizens expect these same laws to carry over to countries they immigrate to.

Their citizens expect this? or do you expect that their citizens expect this?

I would really like you to elaborate on this a bit because i know a few Muslim people and they tell me they do not expect this. In fact the very reason they left was because of the interference of religion in their politics.

Peace

Rifqa, the Minnesota cabbies, honor killing in the US, the Buffalo TV exec who beheaded his wife, Ft Hood shooter, the UK Sharia board, the Sharia Mortgage clauses in the US, any who protest the Wilders film, the cartoon murderer, the doctors who drove their car with explosives into Glasgow, the crotchbomber.
These are normal moderate muslims.
These are muslims expecting Sharia Law in countries not under Sharia Law. There are plenty more if you want to look for them outside your circle of friends.

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
So Muslims equal terrorists.....???

Typical deflection.
No, I didn't say that, now did I?
Have a nice day Mr. mindchime.

Originally posted by JJay55
Rifqa, the Minnesota cabbies, honor killing in the US, the Buffalo TV exec who beheaded his wife, Ft Hood shooter, the UK Sharia board, the Sharia Mortgage clauses in the US, any who protest the Wilders film, the cartoon murderer, the doctors who drove their car with explosives into Glasgow, the crotchbomber.
These are normal moderate muslims.
These are muslims expecting Sharia Law in countries not under Sharia Law. There are plenty more if you want to look for them outside your circle of friends.

Unfortunately the extremes on one end do not cancel out the extremes on the other end. Don't you see that the examples you gave are exact and equal opposites of the people who are shouting to kick these people out of the country??

Action/reaction.....

You really do not see the connection??

Normal moderate Muslims do not expect their host to adapt to them. Period!!

Peace

First of I want to say that Geert Wilders is first a politician and then a film "maker".

And he is trialed for his movie and for "hate speech" etc...

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
So Muslims equal terrorists.....???

Typical deflection.
No, I didn't say that, now did I?

You said :"Planning massive terrorism attacks in NYC, Denver, and Toronto."

That is an act of terrorism. Executed by terrorists. Which also happen to be Muslim but that doesn't give you the right to conclude that all Muslim immigrants moving to Europe have ambitions in that direction.

Have a nice day Mr. mindchime.

That is a very mature way to reply. Fits right into the Geert Wilders fan club. No actual debate, just shouting some insults....

You have a nice day Mr.JJay55.

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime


cute, but it's wrong

First of all, anti-semetic, the term is racial in itself. It places jewism above other religions.

But on topic.

Just to clarify: (source Oxford dictionary)

"democracy
/dimokrsi/

• noun (pl. democracies) 1 a form of government in which the people have a voice in the exercise of power, typically through elected representatives. 2 a state governed in such a way. 3 control of a group by the majority of its members.

— ORIGIN Greek demokratia, from demos ‘the people’ + -kratia ‘power, rule’.

and

constitutional

• adjective 1 relating to or in accordance with a constitution. 2 relating to a person’s physical or mental state.

• noun dated a walk taken regularly to maintain good health.

— DERIVATIVES constitutionality noun constitutionally adverb"

now that is clear.

As far as know the Netherlands is a democracy.

A democracy doesn't need a president for decision making it needs representives of the people. In that sense it doesn't make a different if the people have sick and mindtwisting the ideololy is, as long as it represents a part of the people it is according to the theory of democracy. So as long as people will vote,and that is the issue, ANY representive needs to have the freedom to represent their ideas, as I allready said, how sick and mindtwisting their ideololy is.

It still doesn't imply that I am with or against the ideology of mr Wilders. I am pro free speech, again how sick and mindtwisting the ideololy is of any different opinion that is againt my beliefs again how sick and mindtwisting my ideololy is.

Pretending that religion doesn't exist and has no impact on society, culture, and governance is not useful.

You may not LIKE it, but pretending it isn't there doesn't make it stop being important.

If it is important, then it has an impact on governance. If it has an impact on governance, then it can and should be addressed when appropriate.

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
To all,

Before the bandwagon is full, I'd like to add that freedom of speech might be a wonderful thing but one must not forget that this man is also a politician and by bringing religion into the political play field this man is undermining the very principal of separation of church and state.

Religion has no place in politics!!!!

Pretending that religion doesn't exist and has no impact on society, culture, and governance is not useful.

You may not LIKE it, but pretending it isn't there doesn't make it stop being important.

If it is important, then it has an impact on governance. If it has an impact on governance, then it can and should be addressed when appropriate.

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
To all,

Before the bandwagon is full, I'd like to add that freedom of speech might be a wonderful thing but one must not forget that this man is also a politician and by bringing religion into the political play field this man is undermining the very principal of separation of church and state.

Religion has no place in politics!!!!

reply to post by Movhisattva


You don't have to LIKE what he says. You are welcome to think what he is saying is gross. You can even become a politician, and demonize him and his ilk all you like.

Doesn't make what he is saying something that should persecutable in a tribunal.

And if you want to go the route you are suggesting, that talking about things makes them considerable which creates hate (it isn't like he is suggesting killing them en masse), then the people who are holding up the signs that suggest freedom is bad and that democracy is horrid in response to him should ALSO be tried for treason. You know, since what they are saying is encouraging hate, and encourages the idea that one can and should undermine the system of rights and freedoms enjoyed by their country.

So - Wilders gets smacked legally for not like some people. And the people he dislikes get smacked for treason - FOR DOING ESSENTIALLY THE SAME THING.

Good?

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Let's change Islam with NAZI

I think there should be less NAZIs in Holland. I find the ideology of NAZIsm abject, fascist and wrong

Natives reproduce at a slower rate then NAZIs. NAZIs are mainly held up in the larger cities. In twenty years they will be everywhere.

Dutch culture is a thousand times better the NAZI culture

NAZIsm is evil itself

The Children of Hitler are scary devils which we shouldn’t worship in Holland

Not out of hate but out of pride and self-preservation of our dutch identity and our western values, I defend a immigration-stop for all NAZIs

I want to discriminate

Of course it is not acceptable if the major cities in Holland are predominantly NAZIs

It is completely undesirable that Amsterdam has no less then 177 nationalities.

All NAZIs people that create problem should be kicked out of the country, including their families.

Our culture is much better then that of NAZIs immigrants

Why are we afraid to say that NAZIs people should adapt. Because our norms and values just are a lot higher, better, more pleasant and more humane. Forget integration, assimilation! Let them wave their Mein Kampfs in protest. I can take them on

I wouldn’t want a growing number, probably in the future a majority, of our society or government to exist of NAZI people.

A lot of fundamental problems in dutch society like infrastructure, traffic, housing and healthcare are a direct consequence of NAZI immigrants

NAZIsm is a violent political movement. It is in the nature of the community.

1 out of 5 NAZI kids is listed as suspect by the police. Their behaviour is a direct consequence of their religion and culture.

Might their ever be political riots in Holland, which I don’t want, then that doesn’t necessarily imply a negative outcome.

NAZI beliefs are a fact. Their hypothetical absence in dutch society might be my utopia but is not realistic.

Mein Kampf is a fascistic book that calls to violence. Outlaw Mein Kampf.

I want a new article 1, in which western culture is better represented. I am okay with Jewish and Christian schools just not with NAZI schools.

I am not denying anybody family life. Even NAZI immigrants can marry, life together. Just not in Holland.

The immigration of NAZI immigrants must stop.

If Hitler had only been more patient.

Wilder is right, when the immigrants become a threat to the Native culture, it is time to stop immigration. In fact it is time to reverse this immigration.

It is a good thing to help your neighbor, but foolish to allow your neighbor to take advantage of yourself, especially to the detriment, not only of yourself, but your family as well.

Muslims have shown themselves to be extremely bad guests. It is time to kick them out.

Wilder is a hero.

Originally posted by operation mindcrime

You have a nice day Mr.JJay55.

Peace

That's Ms. JJay, thanks.
You are off tpoic in your replies. This thread is about Wilders.

reply to post by poet1b

Well said.
More people need to stand behind Wilders and speak out.