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Four US soldiers cast doubt on Gitmo 'suicides'

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posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 05:19 PM
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Four US soldiers cast doubt on Gitmo 'suicides'


rawstory.com

Four members of a US military intelligence unit assigned to Guantanamo Bay are questioning the government's official version of the deaths of three detainees in the summer of 2006.

The soldiers are offering a very different version of events than the one provided by the official report carried out by the Naval Criminal Investigation Service. Their stories suggest the three inmates may not have killed themselves -- or, at least, not in the way the US military claims.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 05:19 PM
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This is a pretty sensational story by four former guards at Guantanamo Bay who are claiming that three alleged suicides that happened on the same evening in 2006 were not suicides at all but a case of the prisoners being tortured to death at a secret CIA facility inside Guantanamo Bay U.S. Guards have jokingly dubbed as “Camp No” because no it doesn’t officially exist.

Yet they and many other guards do contend that it does exist and on that fateful night that the prisoners who would later be found in their cells with their hands and feet bound, hanging from the ceilings, with rags stuffed down their throats did not die of highly coordinated suicides but died from CIA torture at Camp No before being taken back to their cells at Camp X-Ray and their suicides staged.

Shortly before the discovery one of the four whistle blowers claims a CIA Agent approached him and told him a secret code word to tell the Chief Petty Officer on duty who upon hearing the Code Word ran off in a state of panic.

The prisoners who were known as trouble makers were isolated in Camp X-Rays most secure facility and an investigation by Seaton Hall Law University has grave doubts that the inmates could have killed themselves in the fashion being reported as being highly improbably to impossible.


rawstory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 05:22 PM
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Both Hickman and Specialist Tony Davila told Harper's that they had been told, initially, that three men died as a result of having rags stuffed down their throats. And in a truly strange turn of events, the whistleblowers say that -- even though by the next morning it had become "common knowledge" that the men had died of suicide by stuffing rags down their own throats -- the camp commander, Col. Michael Bumgarner, told the guards that the media would "report something different."

According to independent interviews with soldiers who witnessed the speech, Bumgarner told his audience that “you all know” three prisoners in the Alpha Block at Camp 1 committed suicide during the night by swallowing rags, causing them to choke to death. This was a surprise to no one—even servicemen who had not worked the night before had heard about the rags. But then Bumgarner told those assembled that the media would report something different. It would report that the three prisoners had committed suicide by hanging themselves in their cells. It was important, he said, that servicemen make no comments or suggestions that in any way undermined the official report. He reminded the soldiers and sailors that their phone and email communications were being monitored. The meeting lasted no more than twenty minutes. (Bumgarner has not responded to requests for comment.)


Why exactly would a base commander tell the men under his command that a different story would appear in the press than what camp scuttlebutt making the rounds alleged happened?

Why would he also remind them that their telephone calls and emails were monitored in that same cryptic official briefing?

What dangled webs is the CIA and Military and Washington weaving when it comes to how we fight the so called War on Terror and why?



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 05:39 PM
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While I disagree with this.....if it happened bring it out and punish those involved to the full extent of the law. However, I can't help but notice the similarities between this and Vince Fosters "suicide", an impossible story, yet fully meant to be believed. I think since this came out something will have to be done, but it'll probably take hearings of some kind to even start a full investigation.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by adifferentbreed
While I disagree with this.....if it happened bring it out and punish those involved to the full extent of the law. However, I can't help but notice the similarities between this and Vince Fosters "suicide", an impossible story, yet fully meant to be believed. I think since this came out something will have to be done, but it'll probably take hearings of some kind to even start a full investigation.


I agree that Vince Foster former White House Cheif of Staff under William J. Clinton's first Administration in Rock Creek Park was certainly a murder and a cover up.

Ultimately it is going to take an honest Congress to breakup the CIA and the other Secret Intelligence Agencies before these kinds of murders and coverups stop happening for the sake of the Military Industrial Complex and the Shadow Government that retains and maintains power at the expense of our Constitution ideals and liberty.

One thing is developing though is that more and more soldiers involved with the war on terror or stepping forward troubled by things they have witnessed and been involved with and bringing those things to the attention of the press and putting it out on the web.

The warning signs are really there to see.

Thanks for posting.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Of course these innocent imprisoned victims were murdered by the criminal nut-jobs that are part of the United States killing machine....

These sick psychopaths known as the U.S. Military will eventually have to answer for their crimes against humanity.....

Have a great day...



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by rainfall
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Of course these innocent imprisoned victims were murdered by the criminal nut-jobs that are part of the United States killing machine....

These sick psychopaths known as the U.S. Military will eventually have to answer for their crimes against humanity.....

Have a great day...


It does look fairly convincing that these prisoners were murdered. Seaton Hall's study pretty much paints a damning picture.

Eventually its going to be a lot more than just the soldiers involved who will be paying the price. I think we are in fact all being made to pay to high of a price for this insane War on Terror the government is crippling us with and enslaving us too.

We are all going to end up paying a lot steeper price for these acts than I think any of us presently imagine.

Thanks for posting.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


This is a good story and is quite sensational to say the least, however, unfortunately it has been posted already: Claims of US cover-up over Guantanamo deaths



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Ha, anything told by the Naval Criminal Investigation Service is more than likely going to be complete crap. If I was in the Navy and for some reason I was kidnapped I wouldn't trust them to come and find me, I'd put more energy into thinking my friends would come looking for me before they would! I've seen shows on NatoGeo and other channels like that where they show unsolved crimes that the criminal investigation service looks into, and they really don't seem to have a good track record so I'm not surprised at all by this.

However it does bother me that it was 4 years ago and it's just now being brought up?!

S&F for you though for showing me this.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by highlyoriginal
 


I think a lot of times the lag time is because the Soldiers, Marines and Sailors first have to finish their enlistments before they can come forward without risk of court martial.

I hear the stockcade is not a fun place to be!

Thanks for posting my friend, some great insights.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 08:00 PM
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If there ever was a case of bad things happening to the right people, this is it. If this happened in American jails to Americans, I'd be furious.

Don't even begin to assume that the prisoners in Gitmo were poor, innocent people. They weren't. And I'm not basing that on what my government tells me. I'm basing that on what their culture tells me.

There is a news story going through it's cycle in Phx.Az. about how a man of middle eastern background intentionally ran over his own daughter and killed her because, in his own words, she was becoming too "westernized".

These people have a culture so deeply ingrained that not only will they not meet western culture halfway, they will kill anything and anybody associated with it. Up to and including their own family. This father was not a radical. He was here legally, worked, paid his taxes, and by all other accounts was an upstanding member of the community.

The prisoners in Gitmo were not.

I can't believe that out of all the people griping about the state of the world and how do we change it, I don't hear more people saying that this world simply doesn't have the room for people like the one's in Gitmo and elsewhere.

This world needs more love and togetherness. Not hatred and violence. How do we achieve that? By dipsosing of those who do practice hatred and violence. And no, we are not putting ourselves on their level. It's called the ends justifying the means.

If there were 5 murderers and rapists living in my neighborhood and I killed them all, would that make me just like them? No. Because I just made my own little corner of the world safer and more peaceful. And that is the only reason I did it.

Now,I'm not saying that that is why our military/government is doing what they're doing, I'm not stupid. All I'm saying is that , in this case, it's not a bad thing because of who they are doing it to.

Imagine for 1 minute, there are 100 Gitmos around the world and various governments are doing what the U.S. did to people who, really, have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. It's just a matter of time, a mathematical reality, before all people who want to hate and kill for whatever wanton reason, are dead themselves.

What is so wrong with that? Peace



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by Taupin Desciple
 


Unfortunately life isn't as black and white as you paint it.
Your racism is troubling. Be careful not to fall into the entire nationalistic pride drumbeat, that is about the only thing separating us from Nazi Germany at this point.

S&F Proto.

This story needs to reach far and wide... and people need to get PISSED about it. Otherwise, it won't stop... and will only get worse.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 10:13 PM
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This is a great PSYOPS technique.

Create a rumor of the fictional "CAMP NO" and whisper how suicides may be executions.

That might get them Muslim terrorists talking!


[edit on 20-1-2010 by Carseller4]



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by Taupin Desciple
 


Did you actually drink the Kool-Aid of Obama's "war brings peace" Nobel acceptance speech?

Apparently so.

If you think having the right to kidnap people from their own countries with no charges and no crimes will somehow stop terrorism, you are delusional. Think about how many children each of those men had. Better yet, if all of those people that are imprisoned without trial are guilty, why have most of them been released? You obviously don't see the problem with a military industrial complex that has no checks, no balances, no answerability, and no respect for national sovereignty?

I'm afraid that imperialists like you are the ones that breed terrorism.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by JayinAR
 


I'm not so much talking about a particular race of people as I am a particular mindset. Psycho's in America are included in this also.

Get all the murderers, hate mongers and war pigs off the planet, regardless of what country they're from, then maybe we wouldn't have to look at each other as different types of people,but rather one type. The HUMAN race.

I know this probably won't happen in my lifetime. And if our military has anything to do with it, it never will.

But here's to hoping.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by Taupin Desciple
 


You cannot claim with any certainty that any of those people MURDERED were of the "mindset" that you are now claiming was the basis for what seemed to be a purely bigotted initial post.

Nice try though.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by seattletruth
 


I didn't listen to his speech. But I do know this. My belief system has nothing to do with imperialism. With one country being the almighty. But rather with all countries being equal in all ways.

Your thought process will never get us there. Our current military will never get us there. Nothing will get us there except that which is so radical, most of the population simply doesn't have the stomach for it.

I did think about the children these men had, and how the odds were against them at having a normal,peaceful life whether their fathers were in prison or not.

As much as you may not want to face it, the truth is that this world will never know peace as long as we allow people with the mindset of hatred, bigotry, war to keep breeding. I don't care what country they're from.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by Taupin Desciple
 


You cannot possibly be serious when you make these claims!
Who gets to make the decisions? And more importantly, where would such behaviour end? When we have thought-police?
Or perhaps a Demolition Man type system that dockets your pay when you utter a curse word! Afterall, that is a negative emotion, and we can't have such a thing in Taupin's fantasy-land.

Sometimes it is easy to overthink things.

How about we try this one... Instead of slaughtering those that we don't agree with, we at least try and make a SERIOUS effort of affording everyone the basic necessities. That way, people don't feel compelled to act like criminals?

On one hand, you lash out at the current system, yet on the other you advocate the current system by envisioning a world that becomes a logical extension of the same f-ed up system you seem to hate.



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by JayinAR
 


I don't know. Maybe you're right. Maybe I am overthinking this.

My bottom line here is that it would be nice if everyone would just calm the f- down and get along with each other to the point where we wouldn't need wars or Gitmos.

I know that not every one will ever be on the same page when it comes to their beliefs and that we'll all disagree about certain things, but we don't have to be anal about it and fight over it. And I just don't see our current system being able to do that. That's why I take it to the next level and say " kill 'em all and god sort 'em out"

I guess I just believe that as a species we should be more evolved than we are and I lose my patience with it all.

Your comment about the basic necessities should work if we can get TPTB on board and actually make it happen.


there's got to be a way



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
reply to post by seattletruth
As much as you may not want to face it, the truth is that this world will never know peace as long as we allow people with the mindset of hatred, bigotry, war to keep breeding. I don't care what country they're from.


Duh... are you serious? Did you just read the sentence you typed? You are referring to yourself. We can not let you keep breeding, we need to kill you. That is your own conclusion.



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