Flight 93 Did Not Crash In Shanksville or Shot Down.

Originally posted by wholetruth

Originally posted by Lillydale
All? No not all. Wholetruth's "witnesses" are the ones you mean and they change from 4 to 6 in number with only 2 telling their story. It is one thing to blindly believe another poster but another to then repeat it as fact. Please demonstrate that every person that was a witness that morning, saw the plane keep going over the lake.

of course every witness couldn't witness this just like every witness couldn't witness the plane crashing.

its the topography of the land.

there are hills and trees all over the place and it would be very easy to lose track of a low flying object, even a 757.

Even wholetruth's own witnesses do not say that. The woman that saw the UFO does not know what happened to the plane, just the UFO. There is a reason so many people put him on ignore and lying is a good chunk of that.

how could susan mcelwain know what happened to the 757 when it had already flown over the field and was at indian lake before she got near the crash site?


here are the indian lake witnesses :

mayor barry lichty
jim brandt
john fleegle
tom spinelli
carol delasko
chris smith
jim stop

thats 7 witnesses who either saw or heard flight 93 fly over indian lake prior to the explosion.

until you explain what plane flew over indian lake coming from the direction of the crash site prior to the explosion in the field the only logical conclusion is that it has to be flight 93 because that is the ONLY PLANE THAT WAS HEADING IN THAT DIRECTION.

you do know indian lake is the OPPOSITE DIRECTION OF THE BLAST TRAJECTORY, RIGHT?

Dude , I never said yhis to any OS people before.

You are a bald face Liar.

After checking out 4 or 5 of these witnesses,

No one SAW anything of the crash.
2 thought it was a missle

1 thought it was a boat explosion

MOST of them report a small plane taking off AFTER a crash , You

just help make a case for a SHOOTDOWN

Originally posted by Sean48
just help make a case for a SHOOTDOWN

Speaking of which. I googled the last name on the list and went to the first link and got a page worth of people claiming to witness all kinds of these but NOT a plane continuing over the lake. The first one on the List

"I heard like a boom and the engine sounded funny," she told the Daily News. "I heard two more booms - and then I did not hear anything."

What does Temyer think she heard? "I think the plane was shot down,"

I just really wish that SH and WT would realize that there are plenty of accounts to go around and no reason to cling so dearly to the one that seems to shift and change each time someone looks into it.

[edit on 1/27/10 by Lillydale]

Originally posted by Sean48
Dude , I never said yhis to any OS people before.

You are a bald face Liar.

'dude', i'm not.

After checking out 4 or 5 of these witnesses,

No one SAW anything of the crash.
2 thought it was a missle

1 thought it was a boat explosion

2 thought "what" was a missile?

oh, the plane that came screaming over Indian Lake from the direction of the crash site.

carol thought a boat had exploded in the lake after she heard a plane come roaring overhead.

and as for what you said about barry, instead of quoting the mainstream media i will let people listen to barry himself say it :



starts around 2:46.

you can hear barry talking about what came 'screaming' over his house coming from the direction of the crash site prior to the explosion.

it doesn't matter what he thinks it was.

THE ONLY THING HEADING THAT WAY WAS FLIGHT 93 SO THEREFOR THE ONLY THING THAT COULD HAVE FLOWN OVER BARRY'S HOUSE [BY THE MARINA] HAS TO BE FLIGHT 93.

MOST of them report a small plane taking off AFTER a crash

yep, the white one susan mcelwain described.

, You

just help make a case for a SHOOTDOWN

no i didn't, i just made the case for the staging of a false flag event chosen over a military flight corridor which included a 757 flyover and a small white military plane on a [most likely] bombing run.

Originally posted by wholetruth
you can hear barry talking about what came 'screaming' over his house coming from the direction of the crash site prior to the explosion.

it doesn't matter what he thinks it was.

THE ONLY THING HEADING THAT WAY WAS FLIGHT 93 SO THEREFOR THE ONLY THING THAT COULD HAVE FLOWN OVER BARRY'S HOUSE [BY THE MARINA] HAS TO BE FLIGHT 93.

Um...is it just me or...could it be that since you claim the only thing flying over his house BEFORE the explosion was 93 and what he heard came BEFORE the explosion..this does not make your case at all.

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by Sean48
just help make a case for a SHOOTDOWN

Speaking of which. I googled the last name on the list and went to the first link and got a page worth of people claiming to witness all kinds of these but NOT a plane continuing over the lake. The first one on the List

flight93crash.com

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (www.godaddy.com...)
Domain Name: FLIGHT93CRASH.COM
Created on: 18-Sep-01
Expires on: 18-Sep-07
Last Updated on: 29-Jun-06

Administrative Contact:
Crash, Flight93 [email protected]
300 N Center Ave
Somerset, PA 15501
United States
555-4451536

this address is for the Somerset County government offices!

"I heard like a boom and the engine sounded funny," she told the Daily News. "I heard two more booms - and then I did not hear anything."

What does Temyer think she heard? "I think the plane was shot down,"

I just really wish that SH and WT would realize that there are plenty of accounts to go around and no reason to cling so dearly to the one that seems to shift and change each time someone looks into it.

[edit on 1/27/10 by Lillydale]

what does she THINK she heard is proof of a shoot down to you????

she heard the explosion in the field and heard flight 93 flying away.

IF THIS PLANE WAS SHOT DOWN THEN WHERE DID IT CRASH BECAUSE IT WASN'T IN THAT FIELD IT FLEW OVER INDIAN LAKE. YOU CAN'T HIDE A CRASHED 757.

what you did is name one of the 3 people who piece the puzzle together between paul muro and barry lichty.

i'll wait to see if anyone discovers who the other 2 accounts are.

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by wholetruth
you can hear barry talking about what came 'screaming' over his house coming from the direction of the crash site prior to the explosion.

it doesn't matter what he thinks it was.

THE ONLY THING HEADING THAT WAY WAS FLIGHT 93 SO THEREFOR THE ONLY THING THAT COULD HAVE FLOWN OVER BARRY'S HOUSE [BY THE MARINA] HAS TO BE FLIGHT 93.

Um...is it just me or...

no, its just you.

could it be that since you claim the only thing flying over his house BEFORE the explosion was 93 and what he heard came BEFORE the explosion..this does not make your case at all.

no, this makes my case.

FLIGHT 93 CAN NEVER FLY OVER ANY PART OF INDIAN LAKE IF THE OFFICIAL STORY IS TRUE.

IF FLIGHT 93 CRASHED IN THE FIELD NO ONE CAN HEAR OR SEE IT FLY OVER HEAD.

IF PEOPLE HEAR FLIGHT 93 FLY OVER THEM OR SEE IT BEFORE THE EXPLOSION TAKES PLACE THIS PROVES THE SCENE IN THE FIELD WAS CREATED BY SOMETHING OTHER THAN A 757 WHICH WE KNOW HAS TO BE THE CASE SINCE FLIGHT 93 FLEW OVER INDIAN LAKE.

Originally posted by Lillydale
I could care less. You have 7 people. So the witnesses now number 4,6, and 7. My point is that you tried to claim all witnesses saw 93 keep flying by when that is not the case. Your select few witnesses saw what you say, not ALL.

well this is true because it is physically impossible for people to be able to witness the entire event.

this is why no one can come up with 4,6, and 7 people who saw it impact the ground.

and just in case you missed Sean48's post above...

I just decided to look up your witnesses , and started on the top.

Barry Lichty: US Navy veteran

Didn't SEE Anything............ was watching television with his wife.

Barry Lichty " A loud roar above the house , that sounded like a missle".

i didn't miss it.

explain what flew over barry's house. was it a missile?

barry said it came from the direction of the crash site ON FILM.

FLIGHT 93 WAS COMING FROM THAT DIRECTION.

NO ONE REPORTED A MISSILE FLY TOWARDS INDIAN LAKE, ONLY FLIGHT 93.

SO WHAT FLEW OVER BARRY'S HOUSE LILYDALE?

Look, I am not INSISTING anything happened one way or the other. That is the difference.

well i am because i spent 3 years talking to the witnesses and studying only shanksville. not the wtc, not the pentagon, not the hijackers, the witnesses in shanksville.

i've filmed them.

i've email them.

i've called them.

i've met dozens of them.

how about you?

You and Shadow Herder are willfully muddying the waters with halftruths, rumors, and apparently outright lies as seen above.

show me the half truth.

show me the rumor.

show me the outright lie. what am i outright 'lying' about?

am i outright lying when i say barry lichty said something came screaming over his house coming from the direction of the crash site prior to the explosion?

am i outright lying when i say viola saylor said she refused to be an ambassador because she wouldn't 'go along with their stories"?

am i outright lying when i say susan mcelwain didn't see a 757 nose diving out of the sky but instead says she saw a small white military plane approach the site and then says the explosion took place which leads her to believe that same plane crashed?

am i outright lying when i say rick chaney said after the explosion they saw a small white plane circling around and the fbi came and told everyone who worked at the salt mill to shut up about it?

WHERE AM I LYING LILYDALE?

WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING MY CHARACTER AND NOT MAKING COUNTER ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS, LILYDALE?

If the plane kept flying over the lake, feel free to demonstrate that. I am all ears.

i have in detail. if you don't believe it was flight 93 which flew over the lake then please present something contradictory to this. i'm all ears.

Listening to deliberate lies is something else altogether. I hate putting people on ignore because it adds nothing. Please try to stick to facts, true things you know.

i am.

can you?

have you even viewed any of the evidence presented?

[edit on 27-1-2010 by wholetruth]

reply to post by wholetruth


You need to go back and re-read what you wrote then because either you did not type it correctly or you are an idiot. You said he heard SOMETHING fly over his house in the direction of and at the time of flight 93 flying over his house. Hmmm....... what could it have been? A plane flying away from the crash?

NO.

It was before the crash and according to you, where 93 should have been when it should have. Go back and check because that is what it says.

reply to post by wholetruth


I took you back off ignore for this? Go check my link, you will find MORE than 4,6, or 7 witnesses saying something different than what you are. Are you trying to claim that just your witnesses are correct because they are witnesses and the others are wrong because...?

Go back to Shadow Herder. At least the posts were shorter.

Originally posted by Lillydale
reply to post by wholetruth

 

I took you back off ignore for this? Go check my link, you will find MORE than 4,6, or 7 witnesses saying something different than what you are. Are you trying to claim that just your witnesses are correct because they are witnesses and the others are wrong because...?

Go back to Shadow Herder. At least the posts were shorter.

YOU FAIL.

you can't address my posts coherently, nor can you address them point by point like i have to yours.

the verdict from the jury is in. everyone who reads this thread sees what you are doing.

YOU FAIL.

and now you are accusing me of being another poster.

do the mods tolerate this constant attacks on members characters by others who FAIL to address the presented evidence to them?

Originally posted by Lillydale
You said he heard SOMETHING fly over his house in the direction of and at the time of flight 93 flying over his house. Hmmm....... what could it have been? A plane flying away from the crash?

NO.

It was before the crash and according to you, where 93 should have been when it should have. Go back and check because that is what it says.

omg i cannot believe how incredibly dense you are.

the something he heard fly over his house was flight 93. there is no evidence that it could be anything other than flight 93.

he doesn't believe it was flight 93 because he did not see it, he only heard it, and he believes flight 93 crashed in the field despite the fact that he states this is the direction it came from moments before the fake crash.

the only thing heading towards his house was flight 93.

you have no counter argument to the truth. this is how the truth is. there is no opposite side of it.

now you need to invent something coming from the crash site and over indian lake in front of flight 93 that none of the flight 93 witnesses saw or concede flight 93 didn't crash in that field and the whole scene is staged.

Originally posted by wholetruth
omg i cannot believe how incredibly dense you are.

Did you just "OMG" me? Paris, is that you?

the something he heard fly over his house was flight 93. there is no evidence that it could be anything other than flight 93.

OK. I think I agreed with that.

he doesn't believe it was flight 93 because he did not see it, he only heard it, and he believes flight 93 crashed in the field despite the fact that he states this is the direction it came from moments before the fake crash.

LIKE

I

SAID

He heard 93 fly over his house BEFORE the crash. You claim this proves something flew away AFTER the crash. Speaking of dense...

the only thing heading towards his house was flight 93.

you have no counter argument to the truth. this is how the truth is. there is no opposite side of it.

now you need to invent something coming from the crash site and over indian lake in front of flight 93 that none of the flight 93 witnesses saw or concede flight 93 didn't crash in that field and the whole scene is staged.

What? You are very confused. I am sorry to have to point it out but you got yourself all twisted up here. Take a breather. Should I put you back on ignore for a few more days? Perhaps if we all ignore you again, Shadow Herder will come try to make some sense of that mess.

I do not need to invent anything to do anything. You said he heard a plane before the crash. I never disputed that. You seem to be.

Originally posted by wholetruth

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by Shadow Herder

 

If you say UA 93 did not crash near Shanksville can you please let me know how the black boxes came to be recovered from the site ?

the fbi told you they were, doesn't make it so.

the government says global warming is real, doesn't make it so.

the government says saddam had ties to al qaeda and wmd's, doesn't make it so.

the government says the mercury in the vaccinations is good for your brain, doesn't make it so.

If you say the FDR, which places the aircraft at that position, was faked please let me know how you fake an FDR. I haven't heard an explanation as to how you fake something recording several parameters a second.

i dont have an answer for how to fake a fdr but since i know that the plane FLEW OVER INDIAN LAKE, i don't have to.

you have to explain how the fdr says it crashed in the field while the data conflicts with the description given by viola saylor and paul muro and then take into account all the people at indian lake.

If you think the CVR was faked why did the FBI play the recording to the relatives of those who died on the plane ? And, in particular, how was it possible to fake a CVR which included communications with Cleveland ATC and which precisely marry up with the ATC tapes ?

i dont know , perhaps you can explain to me how patrick welsh, whose wife debbie was on that flight, listened to the same recording [allegedly] and then went around telling people he believes the plane was most likely shot down and the government is lying and covering up what happened.

www.youtube.com...

this isn't the cvr recording......

personally i don't believe the cvr recording exist. all i've seen is a fbi transcript of what it said and since i know the plane didn't crash i know THE TRANSCRIPT IS A TOTAL FABRICATION.

The link above is to the Cleveland Air Traffic Control Centre tape re UA 93. This is the link to the transcript of UA 93's Cockpit Voice Recorder :-

www.scribd.com...

The Cleveland ATC tape must be authentic because it has on it controllers voices and voices of pilots in the vicinity of UA 93 who are most likely still alive and can testify to that.

You say the CVR is a fake. I say that is mere assertion on your part and you cannot back it up.

I am saying that there are facts which support the CVR being perfectly genuine:

1/ The tape has been played to close relatives of those lost on UA 93, some of whom felt that they recognised the voices of their relatives.

2/ Why would the FBI play the tape to anyone if it is fake ?

3/ The CVR tape also recorded what Cleveland ATC was saying in it's attempts to contact UA 93. What the hi-jacker was announcing to the passengers ( he didn't realise he was broadcasting and could be heard by Cleveland ATC and other planes ) plus voices of other pilots in the vicinity.

The CVR was recovered on 9/14/01.

I suggest the details of the CVR transcript, the fact that relatives thought they recognised voices and the overwhelming fact that the transcript is 100 % supported by Air Traffic Control audio ( as anyone can check by listening to the ATC tape and reading the transcript) far outweighs your opinion that it was faked.

At least you admit you do not know how to fake a FDR. Does anyone ?

Patrick Welsh talks about how his wife was killed. He calls himself a truther.
www.youtube.com...
If my wife was killed, I would find out the truth about her death.

Originally posted by Lillydale
Did you just "OMG" me?

believe that.

LIKE

I

SAID

He heard 93 fly over his house BEFORE the crash. You claim this proves something flew away AFTER the crash. Speaking of dense...

AT

READING

COMPREHENSION

YOU

FAIL.

if you actually read my posts you will have read on page 9 where i lay out the OP again :

to the north/northwest witnesses reported seeing a commercial airliner approaching the crash site. due to the geography all the witnesses will lose sight of it behind trees and hills. this plane is then heard flying overhead 3 miles southeast of the crash site. in a perfect straight line from where it would be expected to be if it did not crash.

then the small white plane approached and 'boom'. many witnesses see the small white plane circle the site and then fly away.

at that time another, larger, white plane approached the crash site and did a similar manuever and flew off in the opposite direction of the previous white plane.

SOMETHING DID FLY AWAY AFTER THE CRASH.

THE LITTLE WHITE PLANE WITNESSED BY SUSAN MCELWAIN, VIOLA SAYLOR, RICK CHANEY, AND COUNTLESS OTHERS.......

What? You are very confused.

no, i'm not. YOU DON'T KNOW # ABOUT SHANKSVILLE.

you are ignornat in this area and it is clear to anyone who has been paying attention to something other than the wtc or pentagon.

you even link a website promoting disinfo which originates at the somerset county government building.

YOU THINK THE WITNESSES SOMEHOW CONTRADICT THE OP BECAUSE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THEIR ACCOUNTS.

INSTEAD OF ASKING FOR AN EXPLANATION FOR THESE WITNESSES YOU POST A BS LINK AND CLAIM VICTORY.

I am sorry to have to point it out but you got yourself all twisted up here. Take a breather. Should I put you back on ignore for a few more days?

PLEASE PUT ME ON IGNORE. I AM SO TIRED OF DEALING WITH YOUR DRIVEL.

I do not need to invent anything to do anything. You said he heard a plane before the crash. I never disputed that. You seem to be.

I'M NOT DISPUTING IT, THIS IS MY RESEARCH THAT I SPENT YEARS ON FOOL.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE IGNORE ME.

I BEG YOU.

I WANT TO INTERACT WITH THE INTELLIGENT POSTERS AT THESE FORUMS WHO DON'T ACCEPT GOVERNMENT EVIDENCE AS PROOF THAT THE GOVERNMENT ISN'T LYING.

[edit on 28-1-2010 by wholetruth]

Originally posted by Alfie1
The link above is to the Cleveland Air Traffic Control Centre tape re UA 93. This is the link to the transcript of UA 93's Cockpit Voice Recorder :-

www.scribd.com...

The Cleveland ATC tape must be authentic because it has on it controllers voices and voices of pilots in the vicinity of UA 93 who are most likely still alive and can testify to that.

why can't you address my statements point by point like i do yours?

You say the CVR is a fake. I say that is mere assertion on your part and you cannot back it up.

yes i can.

the plane flew over indian lake.

since the plane flew over indian lake it cant crash in the field.

since we've established the plane didn't crash in the field, we can therefor conclude that the cvr and fdr in that plane couldn't possible have been recovered from that field therefor it must be a fabrication.

I am saying that there are facts which support the CVR being perfectly genuine:

1/ The tape has been played to close relatives of those lost on UA 93, some of whom felt that they recognised the voices of their relatives.

how could they hear them through the door?

why aren't these words in the transcripts?

2/ Why would the FBI play the tape to anyone if it is fake ?

i see bin laden videos and audios all the time......

3/ The CVR tape also recorded what Cleveland ATC was saying in it's attempts to contact UA 93. What the hi-jacker was announcing to the passengers ( he didn't realise he was broadcasting and could be heard by Cleveland ATC and other planes ) plus voices of other pilots in the vicinity.

you only know that because you were told that. you cant hear the cvr so you have to believe the people who told you saddam has wmd's and global warming is real and the swine flu is going to kill you that it is true.

The CVR was recovered on 9/14/01.

got a photo that can eliminate all doubt that it was recovered in the crater like we were told?

I suggest the details of the CVR transcript, the fact that relatives thought they recognised voices and the overwhelming fact that the transcript is 100 % supported by Air Traffic Control audio ( as anyone can check by listening to the ATC tape and reading the transcript) far outweighs your opinion that it was faked.

wrong.

YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD THE TAPE.

YOU HAVE NEVER TALKED TO A FAMILY MEMBER.

AND DEBORAH WELSH'S HUSBAND HEARD THAT TAPE TOO AND CLAIMS THE GOVERNMENT IS LYING TO US ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THIS?

At least you admit you do not know how to fake a FDR. Does anyone ?

correct.

i dont know how to fake a fdr.

therefor i cant fake one.

this doesn't mean that no one knows how to do it or that they cant fake one.

i dont know how to build a nuclear bomb either.......

You're posting sources from another forum, such as prison planet? I think we need more credible sources than that.

But very interesting Story indeed.

reply to post by wholetruth


LOL If you have to use other witnesses to make your point about the first one because the first one destroys your pet theory on its own and that does not bother you at all, go for it. You are not sucking me into your pit of ignorance with you. Sorry you have no clue what you have written. I thought showing you your own words would help but you are obviously beyond that.

There, you are back on ignore so you can use Shadow Herder to talk for you again. That seemed to work out better. Bye.

[edit on 1/28/10 by Lillydale]

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
You're posting sources from another forum, such as prison planet? I think we need more credible sources than that.

But very interesting Story indeed.

if this is directed towards me, the source isnt 'prison planet' i despise alex jones. yes, the researched had been posted on his forums and i was subsequently banned for exposing this, but prison planet isn't the source.

i am.

i'm the person interviewing the eyewitnesses.

Originally posted by Lillydale
reply to post by wholetruth

 

LOL If you have to use other witnesses to make your point about the first one because the first one destroys your pet theory on its own and that does not bother you at all, go for it. You are not sucking me into your pit of ignorance with you. Sorry you have no clue what you have written. I thought showing you your own words would help but you are obviously beyond that.

There, you are back on ignore so you can use Shadow Herder to talk for you again. That seemed to work out better. Bye.

[edit on 1/28/10 by Lillydale]

dear troll,

please quote who destroys my theory.

quit saying that i posted something where someone destroys with my theory without ever saying who or how.

all you are trying to do is convince the casual lurker this has somehow been debunked without ever saying how hoping they will just 'move along, nothing to see here'.......

you have nothing but the tangled webs of disinformation that you weave........