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what makes you think biology isn't a result of consciousness?
your ego remains whole, your ego is not the only part of you that thinks.
cells in your thumb were conscious before you destroyed them. there are various levels of consciousness.
Originally posted by Mike_A
Why didn't you refer to the rest of that section of my post?
“If we were discussing language you wouldn't say that language is a particle or wave either would you. Nor would you say there is a grasping or spitting particle, because these are things we do not physical things in themselves.”
What I'm trying to get across is that you are treating consciousness as a physical thing when it isn't, it's a concept that refers to the product of mental processes. Just as grasping or spitting refers to the product of a physiological process but are not physical things in themselves.
But you have no reason to believe it's an antenna though.
We observe that damage to the brain changes our consciousness, the simplest explanation is that the brain produces that consciousness.
Your consciousness can also reside in these parts of your body
But on what observations do you base this?
If I destroy certain parts of my brain I can no longer make decisions for myself (one function that is associated with a conscious being) but if I destroy my thumb my entire consciousness remains intact, that is clear evidence that consciousness is a product (or resides in, though that isn't correct) of the brain.
I didn't say consciousness was a particle or wave.
No, you implied that consciousness was a physical thing akin, i.e. a particle or wave (or packet of energy which I missed out)
The point you seem to be perfectly happy to talk in your own absolutes (a rock is conscious, consciousness is inherent to everything etc) but you don't like others doing it. That's a double standard.
I'll point out now btw that you ignored quite a lengthy post in favour of pronouncing on the wrongfulness of my opinion. I wish I could get stars for ignoring valid opinions!
What I am trying to find out is what evidence do you have for saying these absolutes, I'm giving you mine
Assuming a unified field theory is possible then we would agree that everything is fundamentally made up of the same stuff but where we seem to diverge is on the idea that this automatically confers consciousness onto everything.
I don't see why this should be the case any more than it conferring the quality of being a little bit grumpy.
Originally posted by saabacura
Then were the heck is the Creator??
Originally posted by emsed1
Consciousness is both separate and biological.
Man is the only creature with self-awareness, free-will and an understanding of the passing of time.
Your purpose here is simple. You exist to learn moral and ethical lessons, experience good and evil, and to love and serve your fellow humans.
Death is an ending only in a biological sense. The consciousness survives with full awareness of personality and memory.
Life is for living! Enjoy it! :-)
This should give some weight to the argument that consciousness exists outside the body. This is something I already know as fact, so refuting it really is mute. We existed before this life and will exist long after it's dust.
Grasping and spitting ARE physical actions.
But I am not saying consciousness itself is a physical phenomenon
I have plenty of reason to believe it's an antenna. What you meant to say is I don't have widely-accepted objective evidence. And in that case neither do you that consciousness is isolated within the brain and a result of its physical processes.
First of all, just because you can live and be conscious without your thumb does not mean there is not consciousness in your thumb. It just means it is not critical to maintaining your sense of self, which is derived from your brain (your "ego" again).
But I didn't say anything about your thumb anyway when I was talking about relocating your conscious awareness to other parts of your body. I said there are groups of neurons in your brain, heart, gut, and spine. Cut off access to ANY of those things and your state of consciousness will be severely affected immediately and across your whole body. People who have "gut instincts" or emotional feelings in their heart are not just playing with words, it is rooted in biology, and these are recent discoveries in themselves.
No, I did not say consciousness was a physical thing.
I posted an even lengthier post immediately before yours and you also failed to respond to huge chunks of it. So what? Are we arguing on the basis of how long our posts are now?
What have you given to demonstrate that consciousness is isolated within the brain?
I'm saying the unified field itself is the source of consciousness when the most subtle parts of it are received and amplified by the right "antenna," ie masses of neurons for example. And though it manifests most dramatically that way it also permeates through all physical matter in the universe and sustains ALL of it.
Originally posted by Mike_A
Grasping and spitting ARE physical actions.
Actions, but not things in themselves.
Everything you have posted treats consciousness as a physical thing
such as the line “scientists still can't tell you where it comes from or even what exactly it is, what it is "made of,"” Which certainly sounds like you think it’s made of something, i.e. physical. A unified energy field is still a physical thing btw.
No I meant reason as defined as having evidence for your belief.
And yes I do have evidence, the fact of localization of function in the brain
which I have mentioned a number of times. Fair enough if you disagree but you could at least attempt to provide the evidence for what you are saying.
You said that my consciousness resides in other parts of my body, so why is it only affected when my brain is damaged?
Neurons exist across the entire body
but they are not all the same type of neurons.
Follow Your Heart
"...our hearts may actually be the
'intelligent force' behind the intuitive
thoughts and feelings we all experience."
Throughout the ages, the heart has been referred to as a source of not only virtue and love, but also of intelligence. One of the most prevalent themes in ancient traditions and inspirational writing is the heart as a flowing spring of intelligence.
Many ancient cultures, including the Mesopotamian, Egyptian, Babylonian, and Greek, assert that the heart is the primary organ responsible for influencing and directing our emotions and our decision-making ability. Similar perspectives of the heart as a source of intelligence are found in Hebrew, Christian, Chinese, Hindu, and Islamic traditions. For example, the Old Testament saying in Proverbs 23:7, "For as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he," is further developed in the New Testament in Luke 5:22, "What reason ye in your hearts?"
The characteristic of balance and the attainment of bodily equilibrium are also recognized as the essence of Yoga traditions, which identifies the heart as the seat of individual consciousness and the center of life. In traditional Chinese medicine, the heart is seen as the connection between the mind and the body, forming a bridge between the two.
Even with all these traditions and colorful heart metaphors, most of us have been taught that the heart is just a ten-ounce muscle that pumps blood and maintains circulation until we die. Medical science asserts that the brain rules all of the body's organs, including the heart. However, it is interesting to note that the heart starts beating in the unborn fetus even before the brain has been formed.
Neuroscientists have recently discovered exciting new information about the heart that makes us realize it's far more complex than we'd ever imagined. Instead of simply pumping blood, it may actually direct and align many systems in the body so that they can function in harmony with one another.
These scientists have found that the heart has its own independent nervous system – a complex system referred to as "the brain in the heart." There are at least forty thousand neurons (nerve cells) in the heart – as many as are found in various subcortical centers of the brain.
The heart communicates with the brain and the rest of the body in three ways documented by solid scientific evidence: neurologically (through transmissions of nerve impulses), biochemically (through hormones and neurotransmitters), and biophysically (through pressure waves). In addition, growing scientific evidence suggests that the heart may communicate with the brain and body in a fourth way – energetically (through electromagnetic field interactions). Through these biological communication systems, the heart has a significant influence on the function of our brains and all our Systems.
For centuries, the heart has been considered the source of emotion, courage and wisdom. At the Institute of HeartMath (IHM) Research Center, we are exploring the physiological mechanisms by which the heart communicates with the brain, thereby influencing information processing, perceptions, emotions and health. We are asking questions such as: Why do people experience the feeling or sensation of love and other positive emotional states in the area of the heart and what are the physiological ramifications of these emotions? How do stress and different emotional states affect the autonomic nervous system, the hormonal and immune systems, the heart and brain? Over the years we have experimented with different psychological and physiological measures, but it was consistently heart rate variability, or heart rhythms, that stood out as the most dynamic and reflective of inner emotional states and stress. It became clear that negative emotions lead to increased disorder in the heart’s rhythms and in the autonomic nervous system, thereby adversely affecting the rest of the body. In contrast, positive emotions create increased harmony and coherence in heart rhythms and improve balance in the nervous system. The health implications are easy to understand: Disharmony in the nervous system leads to inefficiency and increased stress on the heart and other organs while harmonious rhythms are more efficient and less stressful to the body’s systems.