Universal Flood, Made Up By Lunatics or Fact?

I haven't watched the video yet because my internet connection is somewhat janky at the moment. I will entertain the video when I resolve this issue.

On another note, I am not sure if the OP wants the VIDEO to be discussed...or the actual Great Flood itself.

Furthermore, I have a few things to add in FAVOR of the flood...
1) Polystrate fossils
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f6b82eab9012.jpg[/atsimg]
www.johnpratt.com...

2)The Spirorbis Problem
www.grisda.org...

3)Clastic Dikes
geology.wikia.com...

4)Evidential Rapid deposition/erosion generated by large-scale CATASTROPHIC geological events(Mt. St. Helens May 18, 1980)

5) Michigan's whale fossils (as well as whale fossils found elsewhere)
www.sentex.net...

6)The outstanding preservation of mammoths(supports rapid deposition)
www.grahamkendall.net...

7) Fossils found in a very localised(highly-elevated)region with a wide variety of species present, the bones of which were typically broken and splintered, suggesting that they were not destroyed by predators(localisation of such varieties suggests that they were all fleeing from..."something")

8)Fresh water flooding of the Gulf of Mexico, supported by foraminifera study by Cesare Emiliani, James Kennett, and Nicholas Shackleton
en.wikipedia.org...

9) The Black Sea Flood Hypothesis
Noah's Flood: The New Scientific Discoveries About the Event That Changed History Written by William Ryan & Walter Pitman; Published by Simon & Schuster Paperbacks New York, NY. Copyright 1998.



Eh...I'll leave it at that unless someone wants to entertain more of my nonsense.

A2D

I personally feel that the Flood of Noah was a regional event caused by an asteroid impact:

Umm Al Binni Lake
suggests the impact may have taken place between 3000 and 5000 years BP (Master 2002). During this time period, the Al Amarah region was under the Persian Gulf at a depth of approximately 10 m (Larsen & Evans 1978: 237). Impact induced tsunamis would have devastated coastal Sumerian cities. This may provide an alternate origin of the 2.6 m sediment layer discovered during an excavation of the Sumerian city of Ur by Leonard Wooley in 1954. Descriptive passages in The Epic of Gilgamesh (circa 1600-1800 BCE) may describe such an impact and tsunami, suggesting a link to the Sumerian Deluge (Matthews 2001; Britt 2001):

The dating is too close for it not to have been part of the same event. I am sure that it is possible that other such events occurred at the same time, perhaps it was a string of comet fragments that hit the earth and the rotation would have spread them across the globe. Maybe there are other craters lurking around out there yet to be discovered, dating to the same event. Possibly it was a series of multiple events that all occurred at once. Besides the impact tsunami itself, impacts can generate tremendous earthquakes that can trigger additional multiple tsunami's.

Look at the devastation from the tsunami's in 2004 and 2009, they were from earthquakes ranging from 8 to 9, now think about the damage that could be caused by an impact event generating a magnitude 12 earthquake. Imagine such an event happening back in the days before modern communications and modern construction, when the majority of people lived on the coasts. You bet that folks would have believed that the world had just been destroyed by God.

reply to post by defcon5


Surely though, there would be mention of, AT THE VERY LEAST, "fire and bristone raining down from the heavens" if this were the case. Which, from what I can recall, the only account of that in Genesis is with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

On another note, I don't for a second think that ancient man was ignorant of basic cause and effect. I'm relatively certain that, although they probably couldn't explain the reasons WHY, ancient man would be aware that if a huge 'boulder from the heavens' flew into the ocean, that something catastrophic was going to happen in effect. If such were the case, I think the account of the flood would be drastically different than what we see in many cultural histories today....


Just for kicks...I'd like to mention the irony involved...

"Ancient" man goes to "Modern" man and says, "Behold, God has flooded the whole world, save but a handfull of his elect!" "Modern" man replies, "Yeah, okay. Here's the number to a good psychologist. You should pay him a visit. He's a real nice guy."

"Modern" man goes to "Ancient" man and says, "Want to take a ride in my airplane? I can take you higher than the birds of the sky can fly!" Ancient man replies, "Psssh, yeah right!"


Blessings
A2D

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
Surely though, there would be mention of, AT THE VERY LEAST, "fire and bristone raining down from the heavens" if this were the case. Which, from what I can recall, the only account of that in Genesis is with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

While it may not be mentioned in the Bible, other sources do mention a flash or fire accompanying the flood waters.

In the epic of Gilgamesh:

The Anunnaki lifted up the torches,
setting the land ablaze with their flare.
Stunned shock over Adad's deeds overtook the heavens,
and turned to blackness all that had been light.
The... land shattered like a... pot.
All day long the South Wind blew ...,
blowing fast, submerging the mountain in water,
overwhelming the people like an attack.
No one could see his fellow,
they could not recognize each other in the torrent.

Enoch mentions what sounds like a vision of the Earth being hit by a comet in a vision shown to him before the flood:

saw in a vision how the heaven collapsed and was borne off and fell to the earth. 4. And when it fell to the earth I saw how the earth was swallowed up in a great abyss, and mountains were suspended on mountains, and hills sank down on hills, and high trees were rent from their stems, and hurled down and sunk in the abyss. 5. And thereupon a word fell into my mouth, and I lifted up (my voice) to cry aloud, and said: 'The earth is destroyed.'

American Indians:

"The water having poured over the terrestrial disk,
human dwellings disappeared. The wind carried them away.
They fastened several boats to one another.
The waves traversed the Rocky Mountains.
A great wind drove them.
Presently the moon and the earth disappeared.
Men died of a terrible heat.
They also perished in the waves.

"a star fell to the earth, and rain soon followed.
Days and days of rain quenched the fire.
Great holes burned in the earth by the fire were filled,
forming a great inland sea.

There are other quotes from other texts showing that there was fire and water involved, some even mention a great shaking. I do not have time to look for them all today however. Anyway there is nothing new about this idea, its been around for quite a long time:

Noah's Flood was caused by the collision between the Earth and a Comet, which landed in the Caspian Sea and drenched the surrounding lands with water. -Edmond Halley 1694

I also came across this description of such an event:

Seven-tenths of a second after the impact of a 10-km diameter comet into the ocean, its explosive power would be the equivalent to 300 gigatons of TNT (far exceeding the explosive power of all the nuclear weapons in existence during the Cold War). The comet itself would be almost instantaneously vaporized, along with 300 - 500 cubic kilometers of water. As a result of the explosion, high pressure steam would rise into the atmosphere and would return to earth with unimaginable weather conditions. A rain storm would be a poor description of the results. The use of the term "flood gates of the heavens" as given in Genesis becomes a very good description.

The impact of a 10-km diameter asteroid on land would cause a catastrophe beyond our ability to envision. Global earthquakes with ground waves 10 m high would result. The earth's core would be disrupted, possibly producing magnetic reversals. Plate movement would be accelerated, opening cracks 10-100-km wide in the earth's crust, and causing rapid mountain-building and worldwide volcanism. The impact of a number of asteroids over a short period would have even far greater destructive results. Such catastrophes would indeed bring about the destruction that the Bible proclaims.

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
On another note, I don't for a second think that ancient man was ignorant of basic cause and effect. I'm relatively certain that, although they probably couldn't explain the reasons WHY, ancient man would be aware that if a huge 'boulder from the heavens' flew into the ocean,

Ancient man was obsessed with the heavens, and with comets/meteors in particular, you ever wonder why? As to why someone might not have known about a meteor being involved with Noahs Flood in particular, well they might not have had a line of sight to the impact. Even if they did see it coming in, comets travel at extremely high speed, and are covered in fire and smoke upon re-entry.

reply to post by defcon5
D 5, great research!!

In my youth I learned a word, "Multiple Causation". In short it means many situations can lead to the same outcome.

Another consideration must be the accounts from ancient historians that there was no moon before the floods. Why cant the great flood be the results of a series of events that nearly destroyed this planet? The addition of the moon in the sky would most defiantly put stress on the planet cause wide spread geological upheaval.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Earth Without the Moon

The period when the Earth was Moonless is probably the most remote recollection of mankind. Democritus and Anaxagoras taught that there was a time when the Earth was without the Moon.(1) Aristotle wrote that Arcadia in Greece, before being inhabited by the Hellenes, had a population of Pelasgians, and that these aborigines occupied the land already before there was a moon in the sky above the Earth; for this reason they were called Proselenes.(2)

Apollonius of Rhodes mentioned the time “when not all the orbs were yet in the heavens, before the Danai and Deukalion races came into existence, and only the Arcadians lived, of whom it is said that they dwelt on mountains and fed on acorns, before there was a moon.” (3)

Plutarch wrote in The Roman Questions: “There were Arcadians of Evander’s following, the so-called pre-Lunar people.”(4) Similarly wrote Ovid: “The Arcadians are said to have possessed their land before the birth of Jove, and the folk is older than the Moon.” (5) Hippolytus refers to a legend that “Arcadia brought forth Pelasgus, of greater antiquity than the moon.”(6) Lucian in his Astrology says that “the Arcadians affirm in their folly that they are older than the moon.”(7)

www.varchive.org...

Many myths and legends say that the Moon rose in the sky after the after-Flood darkness cleared up. Did the Moon cause the Flood?

Some scientists believe that the Moon was not always the Earth’s satellite. German astronomer Gesterkorn thinks that the Moon’s age is approximately equal to one half of the Earth’s age. In his opinion, after the Moon was created, it orbited far away from the Earth. A space object flew near the Moon, which caused the moon to change its orbit. The Moon moved closer to the Earth and became “imprisoned” by the Earth’s gravity.

english.pravda.ru...

Then, the Moon became the master of Earth’s waters. The Moon’s approach resulted in immense tides, volcano eruptions, and earthquakes. Waves were the height of mountains, volcanoes were erupting, and water was boiling. Probably, the new satellite was the reason for the Great Flood.

ads.blackvault.com...

Defcon5, your signature can be summed up into one phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none"

Good stuff, I have never seen that before, but it sounds a bit like Worlds in Collision.

As to the signature, true, that is me I guess, though I think I'm an expert in a few things still.

Originally posted by Saidar


If it is true what you say, and nobody will ever know because nobody was there, and no substantial evidence exist that concludes an ice age was the cause of this, then this is indeed a huge problem.

How did the land and air creatures survive if the entire planet(even the mountains) was under water? If you watch the video you will see that even the highest mountains has layers of calcium carbonate indicating marine life was present.

Think about it, huge problem.

What no one thinks about is how did sea creatures survive under 5 miles of fresh water? Fresh and salt water do not mix readily. For water breathing creatures this is a serious problem. The whole of the oceanic ecosystem would have been disrupted. Salt water algae wouldnt feed the plankton, the plankton wouldnt feed the others...

With that in mind how did the oceans repopulate in such a short period? Were there two of every fish and plankton and algae on the ark also?

Mountains are uplifts. the layers they contained uplifted with them. It's not surprising that they contain layers of calcium carbonate. Unless you believe that mountains are formed by erosion wearing away miles of earth all around them there is no need to explain away calcium layers.


[edit on 19-1-2010 by watcher73]

Originally posted by defcon5
Good stuff, I have never seen that before, but it sounds a bit like Worlds in Collision.

As to the signature,

true, that is me I guess, though I think I'm an expert in a few things still.

Never read the book but it does look to be very interesting. To me, history is like "Humpty Dumpty"

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.

en.wikipedia.org...

Its almost as if a great force is telling us its impossible to put history back together, and don't bother. From childhood we are taught not to dream and just accept things as they are. Oh well.

The OP stated he did not want "Belief" to enter the thread, only evidence and debate, but sometimes "Belief" leads to debate. As Einstein once said

The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them

How so very true.
www.sfheart.com...

He also said something that is very near and dear to my heart.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.
Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."

Imagine that


www.sfheart.com...

I IMAGINE that Einsteins greatest gifts to mankind was not E=MC2, but his wonderful tools in the form of 'Quotes".

"I would never claim to be expert in anyone area, its just toooo confining and restrictive". There, a "quote" from me, to you

To the experts who might read my words, let down you shield, open your mind, and consider all the other experts who have the missing pieces of the puzzle you search/ research for. Become the "Jack of all trades, master of none", for if you do, a whole new world will open up before your very eyes, and Humpty Dumpty will be put back together, again.

Lunatics. There may have been local floods that first inspired the story, but there is no evidence of a world wide flood.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by Solomons]