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1947: The reason for the Cover-up.

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posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 02:36 AM
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Quite often I’m asked if I believe in Aliens. Quite often I reply that it is a mathematical certainty that in all the universe there’s probably quite a few intelligent species out there and that some of them probably have some form of spaceflight. Whether that spaceflight is more advanced than ours, however, can only be guessed at.

People invariably get me talking about Roswell amd the events o 1947. Did a UFO crash there? I don’t know. It’s a possibility. There’s no reason why not.

Then, if that is the case, why did the US Government cover it up? That’s the real kicker and one of the things that keep people in skepticism of what happened at Roswell. People will undoubtedly believe that if the US Government had found an alien spacecraft, then they would have told the world. They would never have covered up the biggest discovery in the history of Mankind.

How wrong they are.

But the reasons as to why he US Government chose to cover up the alleged crash in 1947 is not really any mystical unfathomable beaureaucratic or malevolent scheme for the future. it’s actually a very sensible and logical idea...

What might have happened:

The Latter half of the 1940’s was proving to be a tumultuous year for America in general. They were still in the throes of recovering from the Second World War as much as the rest of the world was, but now faced a new threat from afar in the form of a new, rising superpower: Russia. Moreover, this new superpower had every intent on developing nuclear weapons and sending people into space as much as the Americans did. It was a race that would live in infamy as ‘The Cold War’.

By 1947, it was not really known in general whether the Russians had nuclear missiles or not. The Russians certainly alleged that they had and it seemed as though they would eventually employ them against the west.
It rapidly became the fear of every American and constantly affected life in America. But there were non so paranoid about the threat of Nuclear War than the US Government themselves.

Then, late one morning, a rancher from New Mexico claims that he has found a crashed ‘craft’ and the military is quickly scrambled to investigate. Upon arriving at the site, they do indeed find a spacecraft and three occupants.
The Ramifications of this are profound. A newspaper article is released with the headline ‘RAAF capture flying disc’.

As soon was Washington learns of this, they are up in arms. They scramble desperately to get the article retracted and passed off as the Weather Balloon that the spacecraft collided with, though it was important to note that the balloon wasn’t detailed as being a means of spying on the Russians.

Washington is now in a very difficult position. They don’t know what to do. This is the most important discovery in the history of man and the people should know about it. No doubt Washington is divided over whether the truth should be told, but the Pentagon’s position is that by no means should anyone be allowed to learn of the existence of this alien craft.
To admit to having an alien craft would be to admit to having advanced alien technology. To the Russians this would no doubt represent technological superiority and a tactical advantage. The Russians would not stand for it. The very real fear was that if the Russians decided America represented a superior threat, they would launch their nukes against the United States immediately believing it is better to destroy America before it can reverse engineer the technology and use it against the Soviet Union.

It quickly became apparent in the political workings of Washington that divulging the details of having captured this craft would bring about World War Three and possibly a Nuclear Apocalypse.

They stamped the files TOP SECRET for declassification sometime in the future since they had no idea how long the confrontation with the Russians might last. If everyone was still around, and if the Russian Threat was over, the details could be looked at again with possible grounds for public disclosure.

[edit on 18-1-2010 by James Random]




posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 03:17 AM
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The very real fear was that if the Russians decided America represented a superior threat, they would launch their nukes against the United States immediately believing it is better to destroy America before it can reverse engineer the technology and use it against the Soviet Union.


An interesting hypothesis.

There is a problem however. In 1947 the USSR did not have nuclear weapons. The USA might have had 10 (though was building them furiously), which would have to be dropped with long-range turboprop bombers.

The USA had major superiority in nuclear weaponry until the late 1960's through 1970's.

Throughout the Cold War in the 1950's, as we now know today, the USA had quite sufficient weaponry to wipe out the USSR, but the USSR did not have enough to wipe out the USA. This was not known by the public---they were under propaganda that the USSR was massively powerful and USA weak. The USSR's propaganda said the same thing.

Of course "not wiping out" still meant killing a few million Americans (vs extinguishing Soviet civilization) after the USSR's successful deployment of long-range ballistic missiles, which were (and likely still are) uninterceptable.


[edit on 18-1-2010 by mbkennel]

[edit on 18-1-2010 by mbkennel]

[edit on 18-1-2010 by mbkennel]



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 03:54 AM
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Its great to see your doing the homework


Spend a bit more time searching out details of Roswell, but be warned theres so much disinfo out there so be careful.

Yes the US Military realy stuffed this up big time and had a nightmare of trying to put the lid back on but all was to late to stop the egg on face.

Any other future UFO crashes were handle a bit better ?



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by James Random
 


Good theory James,

Do you have any more ideas about Roswell and our governments actions towards it that you can share with us?

*The US was already planning for (and worrying about) the day when the Russ would get the Bomb. I like how you took that into account with your theory.


If the US had maintained the idea that they had recovered an alien craft, Russia would have accelerated its weapons research, development and production.

It would have been best for the US to deny it and then keep quiet.




[edit on 18-1-2010 by Exuberant1]



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 04:44 AM
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Excellent thread, well posted! S&F
It really wants to make me read "The Roswell Incident" once again. It's quite an old book, so perhaps the information in there is less contaminated with disinfo...



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 06:57 AM
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Thanks for the comments. I could never really understand why people decry the fact 'the most important discovery of mankind' was covered up while the answer as to why was so blindingly obvious. I guess not many conspiracy theorist factory historical political landscapes into their guesswork, lol. But it seemed like the most obvious and logical reason why to me: Avoiding WW3. I haven't even read any books on the roswell incident, just the stuff that's on the internet. But I'm a historian by trade so I thought I'd apply common sense to this particular scenario.

@exuberant: Not really. Just a note to you to bear in mind that any 'coverups' and other actions that would have gone on until at least the late 70's (when paranoia finally began to drop off) would almost certainly have been due to fear of the Russians.
I read an article once that said that the Russians had covered up the discovery of an alien spacecraft in the 60's. Here you can apply the same reasoning, just reversed.

@Bob: The point really wasn't to go over the details of Roswell (yet again), but to outline the political landscape of the time to outline why the cover up might have happened. Hence the reason the details of the incident are so abstract and glossed over.

[edit on 18-1-2010 by James Random]



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by James Random
As soon was Washington learns of this, they are up in arms. They scramble desperately to get the article retracted and passed off as the Weather Balloon that the spacecraft collided with

Now that's interesting. So in your opinion, there was a weather balloon after all, or was it a Project Mogul balloon ? Many ufologists deny the possibility of the debris field being remnants of a Mogul balloon at all. Personally, I think that the similarities between NYU balloons and witness testimony about the debris (especially the purple symbols) are too great to be a coincidence.


... though it was important to note that the balloon wasn’t detailed as being a means of spying on the Russians.

This may be the only reason for the cover-up.



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 07:32 AM
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reply to post by nablator
 


Not entirely sure. The point wasn't to discuss whether the crash was real or not, we're just assuming it was for the sake of explaining why it was covered up. My personal opinions have nothing to do with the article.
But personally? I do believe something crashed there. But there must have been a REASON for the crash and I can think of no better reason than a collision with a weather balloon. That would explain why balloon wreckage was also found at the site.

Whether the balloon was part of Project Mogul again can only be guessed at, but this was the years climbing up into the Cold War. America was, essentially, vulnerable and needed a means of finding out what the Communists were up to without needing to bear the operational costs of developing new planes or ships or submarines to travel to Russia with (remember, money was tight after ww2 and we're not even 20 years on from the 30's depression) so I believe project mogul could very well have been real and could very well have been the reason the Roswell ship crashed.


But don't forget also: People had a different opinion of the Media in the 1940's/50's. If the papers told you the government had found a pink elephant, people generally believed it. The decline in trust for mainstream media only came in during the propaganda campaigns at the peak of the cold war and continue on today.
But back then, it wouldn't have boded well for the RAAF to have released an announcement for an alien crash in the papers. Not even to cover up the existence of a spy balloon because in either case the Russian response could have been extremely dangerous.


[edit on 18-1-2010 by James Random]



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by James Random
 




1947: The reason for the Cover-up.


Your hypothesis is really quite logical and regardless of any other extenuating circumstances, is probably at least in some part right.

The issue that boils water today is that the Cold War is long since over, the event over 60 years into the past and our society, nationally and globally, is far more mature.

The reasons for a continued cover-up would have to include:

>That the event was genuine and the artifacts collected something far more special than a Project Mogul balloon.
>That the more lies one tells, the harder it becomes to explain them when finally telling the truth.
>Technology obtained is either still beyond our knowledge or is in itself, worth more as a state secret than in public hands.
>The deep black op that controls this data is more powerful than presidents or congress.

IMO, chances are slim to none at all, that the public will ever learn the whole truth of Roswell or any of the other crash/events that took place in the same time-sphere. And as most of those with first-hand knowledge are now dead, the sources of potential revelations has grown anorexically smaller.

Besides all of that, the UFO community has now turned in upon itself, with the in-fighting and name calling stripping away what good will and reputation it had earned. As it stands today, we trust no single bit of evidence, no person with evidence and then quickly clobber those who try and approach the subject with any serious intent.

Again, if we ever know the truth, it will be no small miracle.

best



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 07:51 AM
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Actually I believe that the reason for the cover-up is that probably nobody in USAF can find the files anymore. Or that it was destroyed.

It was just after 1947 that the RAAF merged with the Army. This was a great upheaval for the armed forces and, purportedly, a lot departmental changes came into power. Many positions changed hands and the Roswell Files were still deemed Top Secret and probably only for the eyes of the highest members of the RAAF. If the departmental changes meant that the people responsible for handling the Roswell files were now being shunted to other parts of the country to fill new roles, they might have taken it upon themselves to destroy the files rather than allow 'some new whizkid from the Army' to set eyes on them. There was a lot of segregation between the Army and the Air Force back then, they didn't work together well then like they do now.

Another reason is, I think, that the files had been set for declassification at a certain date (I think a figure mentioned at some point was 2015). During the time a file is classified to declassified there is no ground for a 'review' of the documents for an early declassification. So it could just be that the file is still there but not even the people in the Military today know what's in it except for the retirees who will still be sworn to secrecy about it until the document is declassified.

But that said: the cold war may be over but the political situation with the Russians is far from friendly, particularly with ex-KGB hardboys like Putin in the hotseat. The Americans still don't trust the Russians and vice versa.

There's also new powers to consider that could react to the notion that the US has some sort of cosmic advantage: North Korea. So it may still be felt that it's important to keep the documents classified to avoid angering these nations once more.

[edit on 18-1-2010 by James Random]



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 07:55 AM
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reply to post by James Random
 




It was just after 1947 that the RAAF merged with the Army. This was a great upheaval for the armed forces and, purportedly, a lot departmental changes came into power. Many positions changed hands and the Roswell Files were still deemed Top Secret and probably only for the eyes of the highest members of the RAAF.


On this point, I believe you are mistaken. It was 1947 (if memory serves) that the Army Air Corp officially became the USAF. As for Roswell Army Air Field (assuming that is your RAAF reference), it seems that it would have little impact as that location would have quickly evacuated all evidence and sealed potential information sources before they could leak.



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 07:58 AM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


My bad, in that case (I'm not american so my knowledge on the subject is always 3rd hand). But there would have still been a huge administrative shakeup.


I think, really, it's the timescale for declassification that's the main point of the theory. We simply haven't heard any more about it because the documents have no grounds for declassification at any date before the declass-date.



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 08:02 AM
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reply to post by James Random
 




I think, really, it's the timescale for declassification that's the main point of the theory. We simply haven't heard any more about it because the documents have no grounds for declassification at any date before the declass-date.


That is, of course, depending there being nothing more to this story than what we've been told. You must immediately assume that nothing more than some balloon crashed and that the records eventually became so dated and unimportant, that they were lost or misplaced, etc.

If you accept for one second that there might have been something more to Roswell than Mogul, you would then also realize that such records would not simply disappear but be purposely vacated so that they would not be found through normal channels.

IMO, that is



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


Well, I can only speculate. But I just wanted to write the article to apply some logic to a situation where, I'm surprised, it hadn't been applied before.


[edit on 18-1-2010 by James Random]



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by James Random
reply to post by redoubt
 


Well, I can only speculate. But I just wanted to write the article to apply some logic to a situation where, I'm surprised, it hadn't been applied before.



It has... but that doesn't disqualify your opinion or theory. It's always good to rehash thee things... taking a fresh look at ideas.



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 10:35 AM
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I believe a few things about Roswell.

First, there has been NO explanation put forth, that is a decent excuse for trained military personnel who were on a base that worked with the latest aircraft, to mistake whatever it was, with a crashed "flying disk." Not a balloon, or an Airforce "dummy" or anything else. These men were not stupid. They were officers and the base commander. That they would make such a blunder in identifying whatever it was is laughable, to me at least. The sheer amount of recovered debris (filled 3 trucks), also sorts of pokes holes in the "balloon" theory.

Secondly, you may note that the location is both near the time and location of our first nuclear test. If there is ever a question about why anyone would "visit" us or that location, I think that's a pretty good reason. I don't think it's a cooincidence that there have been many sightings over nuclear missile bases, nuclear plants, etc.

As far as why the coverup, I think there were several reasons. The most obvious being that the military has always been high on the "need to know basis" idea. Why admit craft are flying around over your own soil that you can do nothing about? That would sort of put a dent in your reputation as a superpower. I don't doubt foreign governments and probably a few other reasons as well, were all thought of, when they decided to keep it mum. When disclosure means no upside, all downside, there is no reason to do it.



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by James Random
Another reason is, I think, that the files had been set for declassification at a certain date (I think a figure mentioned at some point was 2015).


James, can you recall where you read about 2015 as a date set for declassification? Thought that was interesting, I hadn't heard any acknowledgement that there were Roswell documents to be declassified at all.



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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Then, if that is the case, why did the US Government cover it up? That’s the real kicker and one of the things that keep people in skepticism of what happened at Roswell. People will undoubtedly believe that if the US Government had found an alien spacecraft, then they would have told the world. They would never have covered up the biggest discovery in the history of Mankind.


I'm not so sure the Cold War explains it, and then there's the issue that with the close of the Cold War, IF this was the reason, it no longer exists....

Change the perspective a little bit. Picture that you are a Roman warrior at the height of the Roman empire. You investigate reports of a flying thing of some kind, seen by citizens. you find a crash site, and its a U.S. Nighthawk fighter. You look in the interior, and nothing makes sense...this thing represents something far beyond your capability. So, the Legion comes in, and hauls it someplace. Do you announce what it is, and show that somewhere, there is something greater and more advanced than Rome? Or do you hide it away, study it, and never speak of it.

I'd assume the Roman emperors would do the latter....and so did, (I believe) our government. Here was something beyond their understanding, and not of this Earth. These beings could seemingly infiltrate at will, and they, the US military, had no means of preventing it. Would this be something you announce? Hardly.



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by skip_brilliantine

Originally posted by James Random
Another reason is, I think, that the files had been set for declassification at a certain date (I think a figure mentioned at some point was 2015).

James, can you recall where you read about 2015 as a date set for declassification? Thought that was interesting, I hadn't heard any acknowledgement that there were Roswell documents to be declassified at all.

The current guidelines that deal with "Classified National Security Information," established by Executive Order 13526 issued by Pres. Barack Obama on Dec. 29 2009 define the circumstances and dates for automatic declassification of information and documents, in §3.3 titled Automatic Declassification, as follows:

Subject to paragraphs (b)–(d) and (g)–(j) of this section, all classified records that (1) are more than 25 years old and (2) have been determined to have permanent historical value under title 44, United States Code, shall be automatically declassified whether or not the records have been reviewed.

There are however several exemptions contemplated that could be used to not declassify the information everyone in this forum is looking for, and everyone reading those exemptions can quickly get an idea of how these reasons could be used to achieve that goal.


(b) An agency head may exempt from automatic declassification under paragraph (a) of this section specific information, the release of which should clearly and demonstrably be expected to: (...)
(2) reveal information that would assist in the development, production, or use of weapons of mass destruction; (...)

(4) reveal information that would impair the application of state-of-the-art technology within a U.S. weapon system;

(5) reveal formally named or numbered U.S. military war plans that remain in effect, or reveal operational or tactical elements of prior plans that are contained in such active plans;

(6) reveal information, including foreign government information, that would cause serious harm to relations between the United States and a foreign government, or to ongoing diplomatic activities of the United States

Only the recent current guidelines issued by Pres. Barack Obama contemplate that "no information may remain classified indefinitely" as specified under §1.5 (d) of this very same executive order.


(d) No information may remain classified indefinitely. Information marked for an indefinite duration of classification under predecessor orders, for example, marked as "Originating Agency's Determination Required," or classified information that contains incomplete declassification instructions or lacks declassification instructions shall be declassified in accordance with part 3 of this order.

Before the amendment by President Obama there was no requirement for information to be eventually released. It could indefinitely and continuously be classified and exempt from release.

After reading these Executive Orders dealing with classified information, since Executive Order 10290 issued in 1951 by Pres. Truman, it's not hard to conclude that keeping certain information secret and withheld from the public, is not only easy but, from a formal standpoint, legal.



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 06:47 PM
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No one had ICBMs in 47. The only delivery system for atomic weaponry was by dropping them with bombers like the B 29.

The Soviet Union did not test their first nuclear device until August of 49, and the U.S was completely aware of this.

As for the U.S hiding the craft (if that's what it was), is absolutely plausible. I think it may have been more a case of trying to keep their edge a secret to use rather than be wary of a Russian reprisal.
Mutually assured destruction is the primary reason that neither nation made a preemtive strike toward the other.

Great thread tho. All these things have to be considered when looking at Roswell. The beginning of the Cold War was basically tying up all the military's funds and energy. The Cold War was the sole reason for many many things. I just hope that we get a better explanation in the future that goes beyond the Mogul story. I don't buy that story. I definitely don't buy the dummies excuse either.




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