Thought Play

Well yeah thanks for making me your "foe"! haha.

O.K. logical inference is not a theory. It's what Kurt Godel practiced -- as Platonic self-enquiry.

So again there's no axioms -- or theories or anything -- you just repeat I-I-I.

The question is where does the I-thought come from as it's the logical basis for all other thoughts.

Dan Zahavi has a whole book on this which is pretty good. Here's Zahavi's latest academic contributions -- looks pretty fascinating -- on "self-consciousness"

books.google.com... en&ei=UI1US9bTK87P8Qbb_Zz3BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CB0Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Here's his "I-thought" book I was referring to -- won an award!

The book Self-awareness and Alterity won the Edward Goodwin Ballard Book Prize in Phenomenology (2000).

cfs.ku.dk...

nupress.northwestern.edu...

Anyway even Chomsky admits that if humans were not genetically prone to I-thought language then humans would have extrasensory perceptions like animals -- i.e. rats can see x-rays, birds can see magnetic fields, etc.

Which then gets you into the source of the Socratic Method of philosophy aka "self-enquiry" or vichara meditation of India. Ramana Maharshi was the main modern teacher of this method to "hold onto the I-thought."

Feel free to read my blog for more details.

naturalresonancerevolution.blogspot.com...

I do critique left-brain dominant meditation which is what self-enquiry is but it's a kind of long story which you are probably not that interested in.

reply to post by SpiritHipHop

Interesting links Drew and thank you for dropping them by. Sadly I won't have time to look over them tonight, but will have a chance to when sitting in the library tomorrow afternoon. Though the repeating of I-I-I seems to make it rather easy, to easy in fact something that seems to contradict life itself

It almost sounds to me like a case of suppression where your subconscious is charged with repressed emotional energy over an event and keeps it just out of reach of your conscious mind, or your conscious mind intentionally just skirts around it and flirts with the idea of recollecting it. If you've had psychology you've probably heard of it, maybe it's already been mentioned in this thread but I can't say I read through all the posts on page 1.

If it IS a repressed memory then you might not WANT to piece it together online for everyone to read it. But who knows. Maybe your subconscious may be trying to remind you of something you agreed to participate in before you were incarnated, but maybe that sounds silly to you. Anyway there are my 2 cents. I'm just concerned/interested because your OP really did sound to me like a classic case of repressed memories.

reply to post by bsbray11


No it hasn't been mentioned and it's interesting that you did bring that up, well I did spend most of last night doing some thinking through meditation since I couldn't sleep. Though when I did it gave me an interesting dream(s) and has me thinking now. I mean majority of the time I show as little emotion as possible when not with friends so I'm not to sure, but there is one person where I will try my best not to show her any emotion at all when near. Perhaps that may be the case?

Though I really don't know if it is a single event ( since I pretty much see her every day now instead of just a few days like I used to before ) so not to sure if that may be the case. Though the suppressed emotional energy sounds spot on like things I've been doing. I mean I really do show my emotions now and then and usually walk with a blank stare on my face most of the time unless with friends.

Well I had planned to do some meditation at the library near the top floor and post, but I saw your post this morning and had to. I also want to thank you for posting you analysis of the situation.

Originally posted by Gigantea Rosa
I mean majority of the time I show as little emotion as possible when not with friends so I'm not to sure, but there is one person where I will try my best not to show her any emotion at all when near.

I take it this isn't a casual friend of yours, but some kind of professional relationship? Would you consider this person particularly important to society? Just curious.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by Gigantea Rosa
I mean majority of the time I show as little emotion as possible when not with friends so I'm not to sure, but there is one person where I will try my best not to show her any emotion at all when near.

I take it this isn't a casual friend of yours, but some kind of professional relationship? Would you consider this person particularly important to society? Just curious.

Not really. We used to work together at the same place ( mainly at different times though ) she tried to get another work and myself to do some stuff outside of work, but for some reason [ to this day I'm not sure why ] my trust for her began to drop like a rock.

As to the question of whether she is important to society? It would depend on who's point of view your looking from I suppose. If it were my own? Then not really, from another person's perhaps she is one that does a lot of romping between sheets so in a way for guys they would find that important I suppose.

Though very shortly I will be compiling a list of things that have been happening over these day(s) and putting it into my next post as I seem to have gained a bit of clarity last night.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by Gigantea Rosa]

First off I would personally like to thank everyone who has posted thus far with what information they could supply it truly has been helpful for these past day ( almost two days I suppose). So far a complete 180 or perhaps it is a 90 degree flip has happened due to recent events. For the sake of understanding I will take my time to construct and present my thoughts in the form of this post and two if needed. Hopefully the thoughts that are streaming through my mind will be more easily understood at this point.

First I would like to begin with the date I posted this topic:

January 18th at 12:56 AM I posted this topic seeing help in dealing with thoughts that seemed unlike those that I generally convey as well as perceptions that seemed to be streaming in to my mind. The main problem did not lie within' the claim that these thoughts were not my own, but that the majority of thoughts would never reach me. It would be as if one were reaching up toward carrot only to have it be yanked away as one's hand drew near.

One person's advice was to try a new method in which to study which in my shoes was easier said than done, but an journey that I would embark on to see if it would indeed help. With several other ideas coming in just as well one of which the simplicity made it seem harder than it appeared. While another seemed to have the same problem that I have had just as well for the day.

It wasn't until that I had fallen asleep that things began to take a turn, or should I say the moments leading up to the point in which I would fall asleep. As the thoughts that were dancing in my head seemed to be those of the future. My mind had begun to make up a scenario in which I was dating a women with whom I did not get along with fairly well at first, it was as if we had a rivalry between us at first ( and before the idea comes about bsbray11 this is not the same women of which we are speaking about currently ). Yet as "time" moved on it seemed as if things were going smoothly [ this is where I wasn't able to distinguish whether or not I had fallen asleep by this time or if it was still my conscious mind making scenarios]. Though after a while it seemed as if we had begun to date and before more could be revealed at this time it seems I had blacked out and yet woken up. This is why I am not sure if it was a dream or if I merely woke up after not remembering my dream.

In any event the day was pretty much like any other actually, I bummed around the house before going to grab a bite to eat. Came home and did a bit more of my homework before falling asleep [ nothing of importance seems to have happened at this point ]. Though by the time I had awoken it was dark and for the most part I began to finish up my work that I had begun in the daytime, this had continued on until roughly the same time in which I posted the topic (as one can see from my last post in here from yesterday which was at 11: 17 PM ).

By the time that I was prepared for another night's sleep this time I had done something different and that was that I would try the method that Drew had mentioned. Which was repeating I-I-I over and over, for a while I merely felt silly as I laid in bed repeating the same thing over and over again, and so I began to play with it repeating to myself ( Watashi wa, Watashi wa [ Japanese for I/My/Me ] ). I had did this for quite some time, approximately one hour and a half to two to give an estimate.

By the time my clock had finally ticked past 3:00 AM I still lay in bed wide awake trying to get to sleep so that I wouldn't be so lethargic in class for today. It was at this time that the most interesting thing began to happen, I don't know what made me think of it; but the same thought that happened the night before of the girl I had a rivalry with came back to my mind. Only this time it seemed like we were married and with a child on the way, I was happy and my dad was happy that he finally got a grand child. I distinctly remember her picking up the phone and stating mother is on the line, with my response being "Do you mean wrinkles ( my mother's nickname ) or your mother?" I can remember the laugh she gave which brought a smile to my face. A true smile which has not seen the light of day for some time upon my face for those who do not know me well.

Things began to grow hazier as the thought or dream progressed my mind seemed to be filling with a void and I physically ( I think ) turned over on my stomach. My mind began to recite over and over again " I want to be a better person, I want to be better for her [ yet I didn't even know who "her" was], I want to be a good father. Slowly my vision began to grow hazier as if I was about to fall into a deep slumber when suddenly it felt as if my mind began to dig for something, I'm still not to sure on this part and I have been thinking of it all day. Though I'm pretty sure it felt as if it was digging something, whether in my soul, mind, subconscious or even my consciousness something was taking place. Within' a matter of seconds I felt some sort of power envelope my whole body and for a moment a jolt seems to have awoken me ( I think I was awake again, not to sure if I was dreaming or still slowly falling asleep ). Either way this event seems to have happened three times with the third time I don't know if I said this or if I thought this by my words were "Yeah...That's how to do it...I remember now..." Before I knew it I think it was then I fell asleep or at least was whisked away to another dream.


[Continued in Next post]

In one of my dreams it felt as if I was talking to myself, about becoming a better person. Looking to myself I saw a reflection of what I was and merely continued to stare with a conversation happening all about me such as: " You are a wild person, but powerful." "You will only seek to destroy those if you do not become calmer" "The way you are now you will not be able to protect anyone." The last line itself is what struck me the most and returning to that image of the woman who was in my mind for two days came flooding back. For some reason she had become my goal to become a better person; and in the midst of the dream I let out a scream ( something I hadn't done in about 10 years )

I am not sure when this dream ended and faded into the next two that I recall; but I figure I better jot them down just in case they provide some sort of clues. Well my best friend who I made in this new town came over to my house ( at least I think it was mine ) and we were looking at a 62 in" flat screen HDTV and talking about playing some games like old times. At this point I'm still not to sure how distant into the future this dream was, but I couldn't have been much older than 40 I don't think. Though by this time it appeared as if this dream coincided with the woman whom which I married.

The next dream makes absolutely no sense, but it relates to some apocolyptic dreams I have had in the past. As it depicted a war-time state in which I was being dropped from a plane down into some society. I can't remember what I was riding in, but it looked fairly new at least new to me ( I've been to a few Airshows so I know a few things; but this was just new ). I was dropped in some sort of vehicle I don't want to say Saucer shaped, but at the same time it had a rough exterior. This dream I do not remember well before waking up due to my alarm.

From these dreams my day seems to have been eventful starting with my Japanese class in which my teacher seems to have called on my more than usual and looked in my direction more than usual. I thought this was ordinary at first, but now as I look back at the day compared to other days it seems rather unusual, a few other classes people seemed to be staring at me as well especially in my Japanese culture in which I sat next to someone that usually sits at least two seats away.

Overall it wasn't until I left the library and looked into the mirror that I noticed why maybe people were staring. My eyes seemed different, though not only that I looked and felt different somehow. Without really noticing it as I looked in the mirror the person looked like me, but at the same time they person felt alien to me as I looked into the mirror. My eyes for once felt "dangerous" as some people might say. Not only that, but I hadn't noticed it before; but my attention seems to have become sharper. You see I'm one of those kids who is labeled with "A.D.H.D" was put on medication in the past, but quickly got off of it. My attention was never that good; but today proved otherwise as various things were able to hold it for quite some time. From the mundane ( at least in my perspective ), to that of things in which I take great interest. It seems as if my personality, intelligence and wisdom had gained new heights in light of what had happened in the night. With my last class no one can really see my eyes that well so not much to write about.

That in a nutshell has been the byproduct of this thread and again I would like to thank everyone who has contributed something to this thread. If I did not put your name in this analysis I apologize; but personally acknowledge and thank you for what you have done. If there is any insight as to these events please feel free to post them.

P.S. Sorry it scoped two posts, but with this new found clarity to the dreams I felt I better get everything down right.

reply to post by Gigantea Rosa


i feel i know what you mean.
the way in which ive felt this is when ive woken up in a morning and cant remember what i dreamt during the night even though i know i had a dream but i just cant remember what, and the more you try to focus on the elusive memorys the further away they seem to get right?

reply to post by EyeOnYou


Yeah, though sometimes it's dreams and other times it could just be thoughts. Though for the most part these past few days it's been primarily dreams in which it can go either way actually. Sometimes I'll be able to remember more bits and pieces and other times I can't remember much except one small detail.

reply to post by Gigantea Rosa


yeah i know what you mean, thats how it is for me, i know i had a dream cos i can remember one small detail but i cant remember the rest or theme and the more i think about it the less i remember.
also, have you ever recalled something, like had a clear memory of something but then you become unsure of wether it actually happend or you just imagined it?

reply to post by EyeOnYou


Yeah, I've been trying to figure out if it's due to age and how we become more busy throughout the days and as we come to learn more about the world, or what. Either way I haven't figured out what it's due to or just lack of remembrance when we lose consciousness in the midst of it.

As to the second question, yes that has happened many times most often than not it usually leaves me in a paralyzed state as I try to analyze ( the image ). The theories on it are not much, but this is what I have: A. Imagination ( as you have stated ), B. Past-Life Recall, C. Remembrance in parts of a dream. There is a D, but I'm currently debating whether or not that would hold for others as well.