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Phoenix Police pepper spray children at the anti Arpaio protest .

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posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 04:06 PM
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I DISAGREE ENTIRELY WITH EVERYONE SAYING CHILDREN SHOULDN'T ATTEND PROTESTS

#1 It is a RIGHT to protest and children should experience it young and be aware of their rights... it encourages the behavior as adults and it sets a precedent of not allowing ourselves to be walked on.

#2 The POLICE are PUBLIC SERVANTS... If people start throwing bottles at them, they need to LEAVE not fire tear gas, the Will of the People said for them to Leave we pay for them to protect us, if by group, the people do Not Want them there they have no legal right to fight back, argue or threaten...

The cops are not military, it is not a war... when the public as a whole say NO leave, you are not wanted here it is time for them to go... what this really represents is a single man in Govt or a few, authorizing the use of control and force AGAINST the wishes of the public...

#3 The Govt does NOT have the RIGHT to use Intimidation tactics against assembly and protest, that is a Horse with a person on it Body armor, armed with Non lethal weapons as well...

A water bottle against a person who is practically bullet proof on a half ton animal is NOT a threat... there was absolutely No cause to spray the crowd...

If I am assaulted or intimidated as a citizen and fight back....the Judge will ask, "did you have the ability to LEAVE before you became violent" if that answer is determined to be yes, regardless of the assault on me I will also face charges...

That should be the same for the cops... On a horse she could have walked away, they are citizens just like me, they do NOT have more rights than I because they are police, the officer should go to jail.




posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by Jordan River
 


That's exactly what I carry with me to protests after the time we got attacked
I won't be shy about using it either
unless they have their anchors in front of 'em
and of course, they know that



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 04:14 PM
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And lets be entirely realistic about this...

You have to VOTE for Sheriff

The Sheriff basically decides to who and where all the Felonies are given out...

If you get a Felony you can not VOTE

Ergo, Sheriff Joe has been re-elected by a Minority of senior citizens in Sun City for the last 20 years while the youth of PHX AZ in massive numbers can no longer exercise the right to vote...

If the man wanted to, he could declare walking a Felony and only those wheel chair bound would be allowed to vote within a few years...

Throwing bottles is at the least a natural reaction to a dictatorship...



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by mopusvindictus
If people start throwing bottles at them, they need to LEAVE not fire tear gas, the Will of the People said for them t


Wrong, the will of the vast majority of the people is that police deal with scum that attack them. In fact, as the protestors are a very small minority it is the will of the people that they do not protest, so the protestors should leave!


when the public as a whole say NO leave, you are not wanted here it is time for them to go..


So why didnt the protestors go then?


use of control and force AGAINST the wishes of the public


The wishes of the public is that the protestors leave...


The Govt does NOT have the RIGHT to use Intimidation tactics against assembly and protest, that is a Horse with a person on it Body armor, armed with Non lethal weapons as well


Actually it is the Will of the Public that the police do have that right to deal with scum protestors...


That should be the same for the cops...


except the cops have the WILL OF THE PEOPLE on their side...

[edit on 18/1/10 by dereks]



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 04:32 PM
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I think your on the wrong website pal or a cop yourself or some such item...


This, is the place where we talk AGAINST martial law, the moronic war on drugs/the American people, fight back against the removal of the right to protest and assembly.

Last I check prior to the last 40 years the cops job was to track down murderers, rapists, serial killers and investigate theft...

Since then there have been around 6000 petty laws enacted and in that same time frame, we have gone broke, become the laughing stock of the world, seen the family unit fracture and educationally slipped from #1 to somewhere around 45 in the world...

The Will of the people is NOT to see protests blocked by Armored warriors on Horse back like their cities and homes are part of some feudal manor...

There are Neo Con websites out there for those that think like you...

I don't need the cops around ever.... they can only arrive AFTER a serious crime and 95% of the time police personal behavior these days... I believe the majority of Americans are with me on the issue.... not you



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 04:37 PM
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Please feel free to address exactly how it is that since the Cops have been empowered into every aspect of our lives we have seen the literal fall of America where the previous several hundred years only saw us rise in power and affluence and respect on the global scene...

If you NEED Men on Horse Back to CONTROL Protesters OBVIOUSLY the People aren't very happy with what is going on...

I DON'T SEE ANY OTHER CITIZENS WALKING ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE PROTEST CALLING FOR SHERIFF JOE, THERE IS NO OPPOSING POV HERE, THERE IS NO NEED FOR COPS, BECAUSE THE COPS ARE THE OPPOSING PROTESTERS...

if perhaps there was actually 2 sides to this debate IF perhaps another group from phx had come out to say...hey we love Sheriff Joe, maaaayyyyybe, maybe there would be a need for cops....

but as it stands...

there was no one there in support of him but the cops...

so please find me the tape that shows the opposition and the clash the cops needed to be there to prevent...

YOU CAN'T

Because the opposition from the WILL of the people you claim to be there...simply doesn't exist



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 




This, is the place where we talk AGAINST martial law, the moronic war on drugs/the American people, fight back against the removal of the right to protest and assembly.

.............

There are Neo Con websites out there for those that think like you...

............

I believe the majority of Americans are with me on the issue



This is not a website only for people who are completely against cops. Anyone is free to post here and post their opinions - even those of us who are pro-cop


I wouldnt be so sure about that majority number


[edit on January 18th 2010 by greeneyedleo]



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by marsvolta

Originally posted by johnny2127


Not sure if you know how pepper stray works, but I assume you don't given your response. Pepper spray will effect everyone in the area it was sprayed. So lets say a 16 year old punk kid throws a water bottle at a cop, and they pepper spray the area, everyone in that area will having burning eyes, nose and mouth, including the children that people brought there.



oh i am loving your logic. if the cops know how pepper spray works then why dont they be careful with it? let`s say you came to a peaceful protesting and are next to a guy who threw a bottle at an officer so the officer decides to punish everyone nearby by spraying. she knows everyone will be affected, but she still sprays. does it make sense to you?


So let me get this straight; what you are saying is that the police should not try to prevent a once peaceful protest from spiraling further out of control, because kids are there and may get mace in their eyes? Really? Thats your logic? You don't carry it the one extra step? Here is one extra step: if they didn't do anything and it got more out of control the kids could have been hurt badly or killed. Then if that happened, someone like you would post a link saying that police stood by and let kids get hurt or killed during a demonstration, and did nothing. With people like you, police cannot win. It is that attitude and those blinders that immediately clouds your judgment and perception of statements and events.



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


I'm pro cops, when the cops are Employed in their proper and respective place...

Not as they were in Pittsburgh to use sonic cannons and disassemble people from the street, not when they are turned into para military force to wage illegal wars against the public, not when the legislative branch chooses to enforce social policy within what was once the a beacon of freedom shining across the Globe...

Not when Europeans and Even Asians can laugh at us because they now have more freedoms than we do...

That's not police...that's Brown Shirts in admittedly much cooler and more menacing uniforms...

When your a child and dream of being a cop, you dream of busting legitimate bad guys for a living, not macing a crowd of civilians

40 years ago... before Nixon decided to wage war against us... (a man who was impeached by the way) ( a man who employed the likes of J Edgar Hoover another criminal) before all that we used to hand the cops apples... today we are throwing them at them...



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by johnny2127
 


Your title says "Advocate of the Constitution"

There was no violence within the crowd someone threw a PLASTIC bottle at a Cop

A cop who was menacing, Sheriff Joe uses Horses on Friday Night regularly to simply harass and intimidate people for being outside... there was NO VIOLENCE Within the crowd...this is simply The PHX police using Menacing tactics...the bottle throw came when the people were rode up on by a Giant Animal and an Armed rider...

There was no prior need for the Horse to be IN THE CROWD.... 50ft away on the sidelines watching for violence... YES

In the crowd attempting to disperse them AGAINST the constitution you say you Love?

No way...

There was no prior cause to ride INTO the crowd...

They were attempting to intimidate and suppress a peaceful protest with no violence prior to this tactic...





[edit on 18-1-2010 by mopusvindictus]



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by mopusvindictus
reply to post by johnny2127
 


Your title says "Advocate of the Constitution"

There was no violence within the crowd someone threw a PLASTIC bottle at a Cop

A cop who was menacing, Sheriff Joe uses Horses on Friday Night regularly to simly harass and intimidate people for being outside... there was NO VIOLENCE ithin the crowd...this is simply The PHX police using Menacing tactics...the bottle throw came when the people were rode up on by a Giant Animal and an Armed rider...

There was no prior need for the Horse to be IN THE CROWD.... 50ft away on the sidelines watching for violence... YES

In the crowd attempting to disperse them AGAINST the constitution you say you Love?

No way...

There was no prior cause to ride INTO the crowd...

They were attempting to intimidate and suppress a peaceful protest with no violence prior to this tactic...





Yes I love the constitution, and I would die defending it if need be. The Constitution guarantees the freedom to assemble, have their grievances heard, and freedom of speech....... all if done peacefully. And that last part is the stickler. I chose to believe witness, both independent and police that said that some were throwing water bottles and trying to start problems. You chose to believe there wasn't a problem, and things were 100% peaceful. We disagree on that.

By the way, I spend have the year in the Phoenix area, and see the police on horses all the time, never menacing, never intimidating. A police presence in nightlife areas is preferable. We all know how problems spiral at night...



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 05:03 PM
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And I have lived in Phx

I have sat there on the corner of Mill Ave outside a peaceful college playing Hackie Sack with 4-5 harmless kids and had 6-7 cops on Horse back surround me for no reason in full circle and stand there menace me in a public place before for no reason what so ever...

So I know exactly how they operate under the reign of Sheriff Joe...

That's not Police that's blatant intimidation for no reason... they will pull the Horse right into you, enter the crowd pushing and shoving people aside... for simply talking on a Friday night let alone a protest...

I know exactly what went on... because I have seen his tactics first hand...

The cop rode right into the crowd attempting to intimidate and suppress the protest...

Completely Illegal



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by mopusvindictus
And I have lived in Phx

I have sat there on the corner of Mill Ave outside a peaceful college playing Hackie Sack with 4-5 harmless kids and had 6-7 cops on Horse back surround me for no reason in full circle and stand there menace me in a public place before for no reason what so ever...

So I know exactly how they operate under the reign of Sheriff Joe...

That's not Police that's blatant intimidation for no reason... they will pull the Horse right into you, enter the crowd pushing and shoving people aside... for simply talking on a Friday night let alone a protest...

I know exactly what went on... because I have seen his tactics first hand...

The cop rode right into the crowd attempting to intimidate and suppress the protest...

Completely Illegal



And like I said friend, I spend half the year in the Phoenix area and have seen it myself, and it was never what you are describing. Not once. Not one single time. I would therefore assume that what you are saying is much like a kid with an extensive criminal record constantly saying the police watch him/her and pull him/her over for no reason and pick on him/her, but then always are found to have committed crimes. So let me get this straight, I spend at minimum half of my time in the Phoenix area, and have never once seen what you describe...... and you apparently always have police picking on you. What is the logical conclusion here?



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by johnny2127
 


90% of the time... so long as you keep walking you wont experience it...

But stand and gather for any reason while your there and you will see, be dressed a way they don't like, be with someone who is... and you will experience it...

I myself, never arrested, but I have seen it... like anywhere else, most cops are cool to you if you "blend" but under sheriff Joe you BETTER BLEND



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by mopusvindictus
reply to post by johnny2127
 


90% of the time... so long as you keep walking you wont experience it...

But stand and gather for any reason while your there and you will see, be dressed a way they don't like, be with someone who is... and you will experience it...

I myself, never arrested, but I have seen it... like anywhere else, most cops are cool to you if you "blend" but under sheriff Joe you BETTER BLEND


Buddy I really just have not seen or experienced what you describe and none of my friends there have either. I have sat there at 2am while the bars are emptying and sat there and talked and joked around with the cops before. They are there just in case something happens. And if you or the people you are with are known to the police as being problems to the community, then of course the police are going to give you more attention.

[edit on 18-1-2010 by johnny2127]



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by johnny2127
 


Yeah lol... stick to the strip in Scottsdale or Tempe, take a cab and you'll be just find...

Nice for me... I can afford that...

Try being a Teenager in West Phx tho... Try being a bit of a non conformist...

Those people have rights too...

Sure I can afford The Merc... I lived at the Biltmore...

It was mostly "Sir" to me... 90% of the time I choose to think Radical not Dress it...

So long as your in the right place, dressed the right way you will be ignored... High End tax payers or their kids never get abused anywhere under any system...

Nice for us lol

But walk down the street anywhere that is NOT a pseudo Red Light district... and be young... expect to be stopped in PHX harassed and detained if you so much as open your mouth

Great for those with money and the elderly...



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 05:26 PM
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You are on a level right...

I'd never have SEEN it either except for the handful of times I was among the pseudo shady by social definition...

I am 99% of the time, like you the guy in the bar not outside it playing Hackie sack...

But that's Phx... the older folks HATE pedestrian traffic and they will absolutely treat you like crap if you fall in that bracket...

Under 21...

Not in a "zone"

and this is a city where... the Bus shuts at 11:00 and the bars at 2:00

So yeah...

It's the POOR and the YOUNG that suffer, not me and you...

But i'll say this... I love going down to PHX for a night out...(in Flagstaff atm)

I thank GOD I'm not under 21 in that town nor was raised there through that age... the curfew alone would have ensured I never grew up allowed to vote Sheriff Joe out...

All I know is...

Up here in Flag... a kid with Green Hair isn't public enemy no1 and we have almost no crime... Downtown is lively, filled with Music, there are no limits on Live tunes...

and maybe I don't get harassed myself anywhere really...

But walking through the square here... first cop I saw, walked up to me and said "HI I am OFFICER _____ Nice to meet you welcome to Flagstaff..."

That's a Far cry from the Horses on the side of the road with helmets and Batons in Phx be it if they bother me or not...



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by sos37
Just like your logic that says a policeman/woman would ride her horse into a crowd of people and start macing away for no good reason whatsoever - makes no sense at all.


I guess that depends on what you mean by "logic." Police do crazy things all the time just like regular folks. Many of them have no logic at all.


I see. So a few bad apples spoil the bunch. That is true to a point. In this case, however, it's like saying "Well because there are plane crashes flying is an entirely unsafe way of travel".

How many police officers are in this country? Several million, including all minor cities? And how many do we hear about that abuse the law themselves? Yeah - maybe 1% if that.

Labeling cops as "crazy folks" for the actions of a very select few makes no sense.



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


Well, if they do in fact treat teenagers like that, it is wrong. Unless they are causing trouble or are known to cause trouble. So while I haven't seen it ever happen, I also haven't seen groups of teenagers standing around late at night. Then again, when I was that age there is no chance I would have been allowed to.



posted on Jan, 18 2010 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by mopusvindictus
I have sat there on the corner of Mill Ave outside a peaceful college playing Hackie Sack with 4-5 harmless kids and had 6-7 cops on Horse back surround me for no reason in full circle


Hold on, the police have the same right of lawfull assembly as everyone, so there was nothing illegal about them gathering for a chat....



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