The Anti Christ is a Gnostic Invention to Counter the Viral Christianity and Messiah Mindset

Last night I listened to Red Ice Radio subscriber hour with John Lash and he come out with a very interesting theory on the origins of the "Anti Christ" belief system. In a nut shell he states rather cautiously that the Gnostics had no army or military wing like all the Judeo-Christian religions. That they had great misgivings about this "Messianic" figure that spawned out of Judaism and were aware of the viral spread of Christianity through out Palestine so they infiltrated Christian Circles and sewed the seed about the coming of a false messiah.

This False Messiah was a reset or a trigger to the human conscience that would make it known that there is no "Messiah" because all the so called previous messiah's had done nothing good and had not delivered anyone from anything. So Christianity adopted this doctrine and inserted it in Revelations unbeknown that it was a very very clever ruse to allow the closed mind of Religious zealots to deny any Messiah when he comes.

I suggest anyone wishing to comment grab a copy of the Subscriber hour form Red Ice radio Jan 7th 2010 and listen because even though its a new theory of his I think it does have some merit. His web page is www.metahistory.org... and he has a lot of free stuff to go through about some other very interesting topics as well.

reply to post by mazzroth


I am sure he does have a lot of free stuff to unload on gullible people,
it is called garbage.

reply to post by mamabeth


Let me guess...Evangelist Christian ?

reply to post by mazzroth


Wrong...fundamental christian!

reply to post by mamabeth


Same difference, I think you need to understand this Anti Christ concept is monumentally flawed. Any Messianic figure that comes to the fore front will be dismissed as the false Christ or Anti Christ, by all and sundry except maybe the Muslims.

reply to post by mazzroth


Well, that isn't exactly true. You are to judge people by their fruits. Or in other words, look at the actions themselves and what they endorse/do and from that you can see if someone is true or not.

If this person endorses death, killing, war and things that are "sins", then that person would be "anti-christ". If the person has understanding and does things that are "christ-like", then they are more likely true.

Yet, you can not always see what someone does with their other hand, or behind close doors. So, you can never really put any weight into such a person unless you know them well. Which is what you are pointing out.

Which is why you do not follow people, but instead you follow "the way". If you follow the way yourself, then you will not be deceived by such people who may be good at hiding their bad side etc.

The term gnostic means with knowledge of the holy. And in the OT, knowledge of the holy is understanding, and understanding is needed in order to keep the commandments, or keep the way. Jesus or some figure like him can be an example of someone who does those things, but the way itself is always the important part/point.

I don't consider myself Christian FYI. They will likely say he will come in the clouds etc. No idea if that is true, I will be applying the above if such an event happens to know if it is true or not.

Gotta look at things on the level of the equation rather than variables if you know what I mean.

Originally posted by badmedia
reply to post by mazzroth

 

You are to judge people by their fruits.
If this person endorses death, killing, war and things that are "sins", then that person would be "anti-christ".

So by your definition Obama is in fact the Anti Christ ?

OK. I just joined this site, and I am noticing a very troubling trend.

What is with all the anti-Christianity threads?

And, why are the moderators allowing them?

For instance, this thread doesn't just attack Christianity. It also attacks it's followers with discrediting remarks and insults.

Yet, in other topics I am reading, it seems like the site is going out of it's way to keep the negativity to a minimum, and make sure everybody feels welcome.

So, what's the story?

I don't see any positive side to this.

reply to post by ThePublicSpirit


Just because a topic's content does not agree with your doctrine/dogma/indoctrination does not mean you can cry "I'm offended". Deal with the content and put your case forward, be it to disagree or agree but don't cry "FOUL" when clearly I am only relaying what John Lash is saying.

I am more than suspicious of this Anti Christ hysteria that has swept the "Fundamentalist/Evangelist Christian" realm of late, you have to admit even on initial exposure to the possibility of Revelations being co-opted that it has merit. Why does the Christian Faith have to have this Anti concept ? There is no Anti-Mahdi or Anti Messiah in the other religions so what is it ?.

John has hit onto something and I think that it has merit in more examination and to those who think it is an affront to your belief system...get over it. If you can't allow even the most minute queries over your belief system then you are lost to it and have become a slave to it.

[edit on 21-1-2010 by mazzroth]

reply to post by mazzroth


Actually, "The Antichrist" is a creation of poor literacy. The Bible speaks of "antichrists" - it's plural.

Also, uncomfortable truth time. Do you know who the antichrists are, in context presented by the Bible?

Jews. Anyone who rejected the gospel of christ was an antichrist, and since Jesus actively forbid his disciples from preaching his gospel to gentiles, the people classed as antichrists were all Jews.

of course once Saul got it in his head that he could destroy the religion by making it crazy as hell, all that changed, but out of jesus' own mouth? Jews are the antichrists.

Honestly, if I were a Jew, I'd be a little grumpy that my religion's being first means that my holy book doesn't get to smacktalk like the Bible and Koran do.

Originally posted by ThePublicSpirit
OK. I just joined this site, and I am noticing a very troubling trend.

What is with all the anti-Christianity threads?

And, why are the moderators allowing them?

For instance, this thread doesn't just attack Christianity. It also attacks it's followers with discrediting remarks and insults.

Yet, in other topics I am reading, it seems like the site is going out of it's way to keep the negativity to a minimum, and make sure everybody feels welcome.

So, what's the story?

I don't see any positive side to this.

It's okay, it's better this way.

If Christians are not challenged, then how will the world know the truth before the proverbial poo hits the fan?

It's quite alright. God is much more powerful than a world that won't grow up.

Originally posted by mazzroth
reply to post by ThePublicSpirit

 

Just because a topic's content does not agree with your doctrine/dogma/indoctrination does not mean you can cry "I'm offended".

Um... I just did. And, every day, people with other beliefs, people with no beliefs and people whose beliefs directly involve the disintegration of Christianity, are voicing how offended they are about Christianity, without having to come under fire to the extent that Christianity has come under fire.

Deal with the content and put your case forward, be it to disagree or agree but don't cry "FOUL" when clearly I am only relaying what John Lash is saying.

A "Foul" is a "Foul". I'm just calling 'em as I see 'em. And, I am putting my case forward. Which, is not as easy as you might think.
Being hated, belittled and insulted, just because of your beliefs, even if you don't have the slightest intention of hurting, changing or displacing anyone, is not an easy thing to deal with.

I don't think people really understand how hard it is to be a "Good Christian".
We are dealing with a self-fulfilling prophecy. We are told that we will come under fire, and it is happening. At the same time, we aren't idiots. We understand the reasons for the hard feelings out there.
But, nobody sees us. They hear the word, "Christian", and they instantly see monsters.
Not the regular people.
There is no way out.

I am more than suspicious of this Anti Christ hysteria that has swept the "Fundamentalist/Evangelist Christian" realm of late, you have to admit even on initial exposure to the possibility of Revelations being co-opted that it has merit.

Again, this is a small group. And, also, I think I should make it clear that not everybody that thumps these theories are even Christian!
I mean, it's ANOTHER conspiracy theory. A lot of the people chiming in are not ardent church-goers, or real "Christians".
They are just jumping on board the same way people jump into other threads and chime in.
The problem is, we are left paying the bill.

Why does the Christian Faith have to have this Anti concept ?

That is a whole other thread! I think you would find it interesting, and someday, after I outgrow my "noob" status, I will write the thread), that there have been, and ARE a great many scientists and, more specifically, physicists, that have found deeper meanings in the Bible and Christianity. There have been theories put forth that the Bible, though seeming to be a work of fantasy that just deals with one level of information, giving a fanciful story that is taken at face-value, as also, on another level, dealing with deeper, more scientific subject matter. Culminating in a discussion about polar-opposites, positive and negatives, and maybe even the state of matter and energy in the universe.
The Anti-Christ might be real. Or, it might just be a symbol of a specific state, depending upon the subject matter it is applied to.

There is no Anti-Mahdi or Anti Messiah in the other religions so what is it ?.

I don't want to get off track, but I think there are. As a matter of fact, I would be surprised if there was even one religion in existence that did not describe a danger, opposing force, enemy, evil deity, etc.

John has hit onto something and I think that it has merit in more examination and to those who think it is an affront to your belief system...get over it. If you can't allow even the most minute queries over your belief system then you are lost to it and have become a slave to it.

I'm not really even threatened by this. I am more threatened by the fact that this seems to be part of a larger movement to focus on, isolate and take down an entire religion.

[edit on 21/1/10 by ThePublicSpirit]

I wish we could create a new classification for the bulk of Christians out there today. People that just want to investigate their own spirituality, worship in their own way, and cause no harm to anybody.

reply to post by ThePublicSpirit


Watch The Doomsday Code and you will understand what is happening, the Christian Lunatic Fringe are wanting the end of the world to happen. They are cheering on what Israel does and the atrocities it commits, can't you see how bad this is ? Imagine for a minute a religion were peace, harmony, love, justice and right is at the core of its doctrine ???????

You have been tricked into thinking that God wants you to sit back and let the powers that be destroy those who are different and steal everything they want.

Is it possible in your mind to think that a "God" would want some kind of sick fantasy about 10 headed dragons, men riding horses and pestilence to befit mankind who will be tricked by a false savior that kills 2/3's of the Planets Humans or would it be more appropriate of a "Loving God" to instill the traits I mentioned above in humans ?

Its easy to sit back and have everything spoon fed to you by a book written 2000 years ago that has little relevance to Humanity escaping the millenia long battle with violence, than look at what can fix us up to exist peacefully for ever after.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by mazzroth

 

Actually, "The Antichrist" is a creation of poor literacy. The Bible speaks of "antichrists" - it's plural.

You are correct.

The word αντιξηριστς includes anyone who is anti-Christ...
...and that includes anyone who is anti-Christ on this forum.

Originally posted by troubleshooter

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by mazzroth

 

Actually, "The Antichrist" is a creation of poor literacy. The Bible speaks of "antichrists" - it's plural.

You are correct.

The word αντιξηριστς includes anyone who is anti-Christ...
...and that includes anyone who is anti-Christ on this forum.

Hmmmm another interesting twist of logic, so If I don't agree with Christian Doctrine ( ie: Revelations as it is interpreted by most sections of Christianity ) then I am against the teachings of Jesus Christ.

To be against/anti Jesus Christ is certainly different than questioning a long standing belief that an Anti Messiah is coming 1st and he will amaze and unite the world then cause death on a mass scale. To number them in 3 and then retrospectively apply the label to Hitler and Napoleon because they fit in with other non Apocrypha text's has to make you wonder.

I would forward that the villain in this story does not need to be so complex as to have 3 appearances, mimic the Messiah, be part of 10 heads 7 horns, time with the horseman and kill publicly 2 witnesses. I would like those who find this blasphemous to consider the following....Revelations was/is designed to confuse you so greatly that no matter who comes in "HIS" name you will reject him.

Originally posted by mazzroth
reply to post by ThePublicSpirit

 

Watch The Doomsday Code and you will understand what is happening, the Christian Lunatic Fringe are wanting the end of the world to happen. They are cheering on what Israel does and the atrocities it commits, can't you see how bad this is ? Imagine for a minute a religion were peace, harmony, love, justice and right is at the core of its doctrine ???????

You have been tricked into thinking that God wants you to sit back and let the powers that be destroy those who are different and steal everything they want.

Is it possible in your mind to think that a "God" would want some kind of sick fantasy about 10 headed dragons, men riding horses and pestilence to befit mankind who will be tricked by a false savior that kills 2/3's of the Planets Humans or would it be more appropriate of a "Loving God" to instill the traits I mentioned above in humans ?

Its easy to sit back and have everything spoon fed to you by a book written 2000 years ago that has little relevance to Humanity escaping the millenia long battle with violence, than look at what can fix us up to exist peacefully for ever after.

But you don't understand. That is not what is happening.
We aren't being told that. We aren't doing any of those things.
It is you who are being "spoon fed" a perspective of Christianity, and buying into it completely.
You are waging a war on an entire belief system, and you are using fringe entities and past history as ammunition.
And you don't understand that every time you start throwing all of that around,you are winging the rest of us.
It really sucks.
You assume that we are unintelligent,and that you know something we don't know. Just because you can't see into our thought processes.
Everything you are doing, is based on "assumption".
You have no idea what is really going on in our heads. Or our hearts.
And, you may think you are well-educated in Christianity, or the Bible, but you aren't.
I am not trying to insult you, but just from reading your posts, I can see that there are very important components missing from your library. There are studies, writers and teachers and texts that would dispel much of this, if people actually took the time to study and research with an open mind, instead of just looking for evidence to support the views they have already formed.
I hate to tell you, but non-Christians can also be misled.

reply to post by ThePublicSpirit


Before you claim this is not happening watch The Doomsday Code and then comment. This documentary clearly shows how the Evangelistic Christian goes to Israel and visits all the places the Jew holds high such as the wailing wall but don't bother to go to places like "The Church of Nativity" because it has nothing to do with end times prophecy. They are only interested in bringing on the "End of the World" and the means they have to do this is by donations to nefarious Israeli groups and figures who are tying to build on the temple mount.

I have strong connections to Christians of differing denominations and I know what they talk about and how they think. I debate them constantly about this concept of the Anti-Christ and basically a lot of what is taken as gospel can in fact not be found in the bible.

Antichrist is as Christian a teaching as satan is to Judaism, it's not at all similar to the Ginoskeian concepts. If anything it has a Hellenistic appeal but still it's more like the wicked priest of the Qumran corpus really, which may be the best example of the 'man of sin' there is. Anyway it is an ultimate impostor the opposite fake-perfect, and as the word itself he is about exclusivity and individuality -non interaction, keeping to yourself and not actually having anymore relation with others than necessary. Hell be the antithesis of help and healing and won't approve of independent liberty freely having and sharing.

But as concerns who he is don't worry about that unless you're going to Europe or the Middle East, 'cause you're part of the ones gathered together that withhold his appearing until taken out of "the way".

reply to post by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU


Sorry mate, didn't understand one thing you tried to say there.