Report: Pentagon mulls ’separate but equal’ gay policy, page 2

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reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 05:27 AM by blueorder

Originally posted by lordtyp0
Many of the companies in the Mil-ind-complex have controlling interests by those who identify as "Neo-Conservative" etc.

For example: Haliburton, Lockheed, Boeing, XE/Blackwater etc. etc.

The significance in this case is more that those who identify as 'right wing' tend to hold more conservative views and religious sentiment. Was less about the politics of left v right and more a general consensus of the people that comprise each side. Obviously in a generalized manner as many on the Right have no issues with gays, many on the Left do.

fair enough, as I would tend to lump the horrific "neo cons" into a left wing setting, though, as you say it is not a "black and white" classification

reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 05:28 AM by lordtyp0

Originally posted by blueorder
reply to post by lordtyp0

do you get my point though, homsosexuals are just human- if men and women "bunked" together in the military relationships and issues would arise (so I am not just labelling homosexuals are uncontrollable sex fiends)

I have no doubt that there has always been homosexuals fighting and dying bravely in the various armies of the world, but can you not see the potential for such issues with the "legitimising" (for want of a better word) their status?

I understand, sorry I should have mentioned that earlier, I forget in some of these hot button topics it needs to be said explicitly

In no way was I intending to impugn your stance in this. I understand what you are saying, and do not think there would be any issues like implied.

Though ironically, it seems to be those who are not oogled that tend to get the most defensive. On a cultural level it is similar to this:

Most gays will just check out from corner of the eye and never make a move on straight guys for many reasons: Chief is fear of alienation. All the while trying to prove worth. Usually the situation morphs into a 'big brother/little brother' scenario.

It is certainly possible for 'relationship issues' and sexual harassment to occur. Though I suspect the relationship part would be much rarer and the harassment part would prob be against the straight guy.

Either way, there hasn't been any noteworthy issues in all the other countries that allow open gays to serve.

reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 05:32 AM by Janky Red

Well maybe the troops have to suck it up (not literally)

Gays people pay the goddamned taxes that fund the machine so they should be free to contribute to it with service. Their oath is to the country, their duty is to abandon their own whims and do a job.

Ironic enough these same arguments, almost verbatim were presented when blacks were first considered as candidates for soldiering during the CW. Oh the humanity, we have to separate them from the other troops, funny things will happen, our boyz will light them up, moral backsliding will result, diseases will flourish, yada ya. I don't have to tell you how stupid these notions sound today, but believe me when I say you nay sayers will be this eras equivalent in the not so distant future. Unfortunately you are locked in this age, which will one day look like the dark ages...

we are not the apex of humanity.

reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 05:33 AM by Common Good

reply to post by lordtyp0

No, hazing is not allowed(eventhough it does happen all the time).
I do not know, its been 10 years since I been in, but when I was in, hazing was a ritual, everyone got hazed, but the screw ups and the ones that didnt play along got it the worst.

I agree, gays do get picked on a lot, but is not the same in the civilian world asit is in the military world. Think gays get bashed on bad on T.V and on the streets, that will be nothing compared to what they will have to deal with while enlisted. The military is no picnic, its not some fantasy playground where you candress up like commando and just start sprayin people down like you see on T.V, its real, and its very dangerous. Emotions run higher in soldiers troops more in the military then they do here, because in the military, its your ass on the line, and everyone elses ass as well.

I cant really say that gays "excel more", cause I have nothing toback that claim up, but I will agree that they do see a higher need to be sucessful because of all the negative things that they have to deal with in life(more orless).

EVERYONE has survival instincts, not just gays. Just because they are gay and make it through the training, does not automatically mean they are going to gain respect amongst their peers(eventhough they should).
Like I stated earlier, there are stilla lotof people who are not comfortable with it, and no matter how brave, or passionate they are about it, they will not always be accepted because of the lifestyle they choose to live, and thats where the danger comes in.

And BTW- I want to thank you for being mature about this. Any other time I try to voice my opinion in a thread such as this, I get slammed just for dis agreeing with others views(hense why Irarely touch upon this subject). It has become taboo to even try to say anything negative about gays on this site, and I am sure I will get flamed for voicing what I have on this thread. So I appreciate your courtesy.

reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 05:34 AM by blueorder

reply to post by Janky Red

no need for amateur dramatics "janky"

reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 05:38 AM by Janky Red

Originally posted by blueorder
reply to post by Janky Red

no need for amateur dramatics "janky"

Ya I had to respond to all the dramatics, although I would disagree and sight them as the text book version.

reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 05:40 AM by blueorder

Originally posted by Janky Red

Ya I had to respond to all the dramatics, although I would disagree and sight them as the text book version.

no dramatics on this thread, people just having a polite and well thought out discussion

reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 05:43 AM by lordtyp0

reply to post by Common Good

I am reminded of the old saying "When in the army and in the trench, everyone with you is your brother." I forget where it came from but obviously the survival of the unit depends on everyones participation, old tendencies of hate tend to get suspended in those situations, whether it gets picked up again after is something else, and obviously it is not an iron clad statement/rule

The part I was stressing was the drive to prove worth and earn respect. I am willing to bet that the first batch accepted to serve openly would do everything possible to be more of a soldier than everyone else (and prob earn enmity from that as well

)

Though, I don't think anyone said that serving was easy

Though, I had heard some weird rumors about cards, that when flashed would make the drill sergeant back off, if that was true it's a sad statement on affairs.

As for the maturity.. Meh, I am an adult, I want to discuss things with adults, I prefer it when people don't agree with everything I say and likewise.

ie: Different opinions are what I want, can't say the same for all though

(edit to add)
I need to run off for a bit, will prob check in tomorrow given that it's 4:45 am local time.

[edit on 18-1-2010 by lordtyp0]

reply posted on 18-1-2010 @ 03:49 PM by Common Good

reply to post by lordtyp0

The cards, lol.I think that must be an Air Force thing.
I believe they also get maids for their rooms as well. (could be wrong though).
but that is the concensus.

If you ask me, gays dont have to oprove their worth in the military because they already have(just not openly). They still got their respect.
But as I said earlier, not everyone is willing to just hand over their respect for something they disagree with. Thats all I meant by saying that.

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