Something about Haiti that you need to know about

reply to post by eightonefive


I may have not been clear about this .What I meant was the bankers got a sweetheart deal to prop them up. Haiti he cries to us for donations.
My point is the bankers run the show the government is an arm of the bank.
I mean on the one hand they take money from taxpayers (sort of).
But I dont now all the guilt trying to get good hearted people to give it up for the poor folks down there.
Either way it is redistribution.

his thread is by and large wrong.

North America was inhabited by roughly 20 million natives when the settlers arrived and it was a tough fight for the continent, they were intelligent, capable and had culture that worked once you got above Mexico...

Now let's address Africa..

The TRUTH

There were over 100 Million Africans at the time...

Over 1.5 Billion today

We didn't "invade Africa" no way couldn't do it now, couldn't do it then...

The Slave Trade was Black on Black Crime...

Black on Black and Black on White Violent Crime in America is 2/3 of all crime in this country

Black on Black genocide and War in Africa is responsible for more deaths than all the war world wide every single year without fail


All people are violent...

But Caucasian and Asian Violence is organized...

African Violence in inter-personal....within the community

There is a MASSIVE problem within African communities in regards to personal violence Black on Black crime as it's called within the community

We didn't do that

The Black Male population has real..REAL Issue in regards to personal aggression within a portion of it's population almost Universally no matter where you look...

It's not an ALL African people thing it's not an ALL African Male thing...

But it DEVASTATES communities of Africans where ever they go...

Oppress Africans?

No statistically we RUN AWAY whenever a community gets above a certain percentage Black... which really sucks for the Millions of Nice ordinary African Americans...

But...

Just listen to the Music and LOOK at what an "ELEMENT" within the Black Community here is all about...

Violence and Sex and Gangs and retribution..... it inundates almost All African communities around the world...

There is NO OTHER CULTURE on EARTH... I would not want to live in a community of, BUT THAT ONE

and please no offense, it's not about Racism...

People talk about white people and the south and racists...

I'm in an almost all white community, an African guy will never be bothered here...

Back Home in NY... there are neighborhoods where on any given night it's 50/50 as white Male I will be ATTACKED for walking down the street...

The DOJ statistics tell the whole story African American Males inflict 2/3 of the Violence in this country and they are 1/5 of the population

That's FACT

I live right off a reservation the Navajos (who given by FAR a worse deal... bother NO ONE)

so it's not a Tribal thing

it's not a revenge thing...because no one in Africa killing Black Women for NO REASON even knows what happened here 90% of the time...

THERE IS A MAJOR PROBLEM WITHIN THE AFRICAN MALE COMMUNITY...

Is it cultural or genetic...I don't know...

No one does really for sure...

It's not about being "BLACK"

Or about the PAST

But whatever it is...

The only solution is for the African Community to address it within themselves because THEY have the answers not us... from projects, to discrimination the ONE THING WHITE PEOPLE DO WRONG TRULY... IS INTERFERE AND YEAH.... MAKE IT WORSE

But we didn't cause the problem in the first place...

The Answer is that The African Community here or there... needs to address it within themselves...

Statistically 11 African women died in at the Hands of African men in the time it took to write this... Corporations or white Men don't make that happen...

We fought Asia, we occupied India... Europe fought 2 world wars... we have killed Far more by Tens of Millions than we have ever harmed in Africa yet these societies rebounded... rebounded after Atomic bomb droppings like Japan, Rebounded after a holocaust like the Jews... the Native population of America, despite all much lower violent crime rate than the African community...

You can not blame this on greed or our propensity to war...

The problem is internal to the African male population.







[edit on 16-1-2010 by mopusvindictus]

reply to post by cenpuppie

To the OP, i gave you a star and flag! People don't realize that Haiti isn't allowed to prosper, just stagnate.

I see this type of argument a lot...skin color doesn't really matter, its more of a mindset.

This is typically portrayed by lazy, mostly liberal, minded people. Its never "my fault" its always "Someone elses" fault.

My child flunked? It must be the teacher! The school! Marilyn Manson!

Its never "me me me" unless we're talking about prosperity...when it comes to blame, point the finger some where else.

Its pathetic....it really is.

Originally posted by Elliot
I don't doubt what the OP says, and racism against the black peoples is as evil as any racism.

But we, when we talk about racism and slavery must balance it with other facts. Just one, to start with.

In the last one thousand years, just from the British Isles, approximately 1 million men women and children have been abducted as slaves. This is historical fact and no conspiracy theory.

And yet, it is NEVER mentioned in schools and rarely in history books simply because these slaves were WHITE!

There is a growing hatred against the white race and it is manufactered by false and one sided history which is slowly destroying our belief in eachother.

A lot of the history we are taught is plain and out right lies, designed to engender hatred.

The caucasions are as much victims of these lies as any other race and we need to look to who is manipulating the past in order to manipulate the future!

The first thing we need to hate is LIES!

We must always search for the other side of the story.

I have to agree OP. These times in America are terrible. I can't stand seeing White America being ashamed of being White. I've seen many whites make a good living and act like they're a cause of the evil of the world because they feel that money is the root of all Evil. I really wish that White America will wake up.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


let me be the first to star you for saying what everyone alreadys knows but is afraid to say.

Haiti represents the fragility of our human existence.

Haiti is a wake up call to all, and few will answer it.

Something you need to know is that your life is fleeting.... You take so much for granted and fail to appreciate just how blessed you are.

You could have been born into extreme poverty, lived long enough to experience a very painful, hopeless existence only to wake one day to once again feel the pains of hunger and despair and then the earth shaking, panic and in the last seconds having the building around you crumble in on you taking your life, then having your remains later dumped out with the rubble as if you were nothing but trash.

While everyone looks at Haiti and attempts to rationalize why it was the way it was, and why an earthquake came and killed so many leaving so much destruction, far too many fail to see what it all really means.

When destruction comes, it will not care who or where you are... Even the rich can become the poor and even YOU can be just like the Haitian people.

Perhaps our day is coming, maybe our judgment will be a completely collapsed economy followed by a wave of natural disasters?

But, who will Rush and Pat blame then?

reply to post by Subjective Truth

I love it you insult me and then have the nerve to cry when I return the favor to you. You hurl insults and then cry when they are returned. Grow a spine words are not sticks and stones

Where did i insult you at then? Please show me. I know i called a posters post ignorant but i never came close to calling you a dolt. Go read what you wrote.

You claim it has everything to do with economics then please explain the super rich athletes to me or the elite blacks that run countries.

Super rich black athletes that what? Still get into trouble like everybody else. Elite blacks that run countries are corrupt just as everyone else. What are you going for here? Let me break it down since it needs to be broken, i won't take it to the lowest denominator so bare with me. Black folks, be they American, English, African, regardless of country of origin are just like everybody else. Your insinuating that there is a stigmata within black culture itself which i call bull****. A broad generalization made by someone that listens and pays attention to what is broadcast.

You claim the white race has done it to these people I call bullsh*t every race has had to overcome obstacles why do the blacks have such troubles with it culturally?

So my original question of "name all cultures or groups that the Europeans came across and pushed their colonialism on that is actually doing better since their arrival" is bs huh? *chuckles*

Over 70% percent of black homes are fatherless in America

Huh, really? Where did you get that stat. Sounds like something the NAACP cooked up. I'm googlin it but i can't find it.

Push for more rights than others affirmative action

*starts laughing*

Are the majority population in us jails

Well, there are different schools of thought for the reasons of that. I'll let you in on a big secret, economics.

Idolize the gangster lifestyle

*starts laughing once again* Who told you that TV? Your gonna make another broad generalization because of the actions of some? Wow..

Only 51% of blacks graduate high school in the US

What's that word again? Oh yea, economics. Cash is king nowadays. Just so you know, school funding is based on property tax.

I believe the problems they have are all related to your way of thinking they never own up to the problems but push blame on others and progressives like you buy right into it

So your saying black americans are shifting the blame of their current situation to white americans because they fell that the actions of our ancestors never allowed their ancestors to achieve that American dream? Talk to me, let's get a dialogue going on this one...i'm interested in your perspective.

Almost every country that is run by blacks and the main population is black is right on the edge of chaos.

That is what you originally said and i why i responded to your post. That is a statement made out of ignorance. Now rather than debate, you'd rather name call and bring in

reply to post by pteridine

Different system?

Like i said, slavery was a different system to the Africans. Do you know why the Europeans choose Africans?

*sigh*

Oh come on guys, come down. We're all trying to learn more about the world by sharing our views aren't we?


Here is what I have to say.

If the US and Europe wanted a country to be successful, that country will be successful.


Germany was in deep # after World War II, yet look at their GDP today.

Japan got nuked two times, yet Nagasaki and Hiroshima are more high tech than any other city in the world. Japan was the only non-white country who turned to imperialism. They killed over 30 million Asians.




New World settlers caused the genocide and extinction of over 100 million natives. The Belgians alone killed over 20-30 million natives in the Congo. India and China have been exploited for centuries.

What do Latin American, Asia, and Africa have in common? They are all still mostly underdeveloped.

What did they do to Western nations to deserve this? Absolutely nothing.



What did Germany and Japan do? (you can answer this) Yet billions were invested in them?


Edit: I forgot Taiwan and South Korea, those are bases against the Chinese.


Is this an attempt to promote a specific ideology such as survival of the fittest?






[edit on 1/16/2010 by die_another_day]

[edit on 1/16/2010 by die_another_day]

reply to post by mopusvindictus


*starts laughing* Now this is what i'm talking about! I pointed it out in an earlier post. Hmm, i need some filler so...

The Black Male population has real..REAL Issue in regards to personal aggression within a portion of it's population almost Universally no matter where you look

I just wanted to quote you on that. LOL

It's not an ALL African people thing it's not an ALL African Male thing... But it DEVASTATES communities of Africans where ever they go...

This one too. Where's Rev. Sharpton when you need'em!

There is NO OTHER CULTURE on EARTH... I would not want to live in a community of, BUT THAT ONE.

*laughs* Ouch! I'm puttin that one on the wall.

[edit on 16-1-2010 by cenpuppie]

reply to post by die_another_day

If the US and Europe wanted a country to be successful, that country will be successful. Germany was in deep # after World War II, yet look at their GDP today.

Thank you. That is all the I am trying to say as well damn! And since the only thing different from them and everybody else IS skin color...

What do Latin American, Asia, and Africa have in common? They are all still mostly underdeveloped.

Exactly. China still has underdeveloped areas too. Lots of resources in those areas too.

[edit on 17-1-2010 by cenpuppie]

The reason Haiti is poor is simple. It is the victim of Corporate greed! Western companies outsource the work (reason US is lacking in jobs these days) and pay the people absolutely nothing to increase their PROFIT MARGINS!

Heres and example and there are many more if you care to do some research.........

Child Slave Labor in the Walt Disney Company

The small Caribbean island of Haiti is the most glaring example of an inhumane Disney sweatshop. Workers there stitch Aladdin t-shirts for 28 cents an hour (Haiti). Surprisingly, this is by far highest wage of the three sweatshops cited in this report. However, food can actually be as expensive in Haiti as it is in the United States. After taxes, a Haitian sweatshop worker will have 15-20 dollars a month. Everything is put into perspective when it's noted that it costs 20 dollars a month to rent a one-room shack with no running water. Simply put, a single individual would find it difficult to survive on these means, let alone someone with children.

It's all about money and the people of Haiti just aren't getting any.

Maybe these companies that profit so well from this exploitation should step up and spend some of that profit on their workers by providing some aid........

Originally posted by die_another_day
Oh come on guys, come down. We're all trying to learn more about the world by sharing our views aren't we?


Here is what I have to say.

If the US and Europe wanted a country to be successful, that country will be successful.

This would of course be true, but which 3rd word country do you choose? What we do in Both the West and the East is spend small amounts or money across 100 nations not actually propping any of them up enough to make a major difference...

In theory your right, if Europe or America Chose a single nation in Africa they could industrialize it in a decade or two...

In fact you could almost say we chose that nation the last 20 years.... China

But the rest of the world...the economics aren't there to do it but a few nations at a time, picking and choosing the ones most likely to succeed and reward that effort isn't some form of evil it's simple math

Germany was in deep # after World War II, yet look at their GDP today.

Japan got nuked two times, yet Nagasaki and Hiroshima are more high tech than any other city in the world. Japan was the only non-white country who turned to imperialism. They killed over 30 million Asians.

Yes and this is exactly what I am talking about, Industrialized Low social context cultures have the capacity to rebound...

You can't even have an Industrialized society if the people are High social context culturally, they fight from within rather than rebuild.

Japan and Germany... Two cultures, very polite, traditional, quiet, not In Your Face, not prone to fighting in person or getting argumentative or down right violent inter personally under stress...

Yeah those cultures, are prone to War as an expression of violence... No One is saying, One is Better than the other as human beings

But with a destroyed city

The Japanese didn't kick the crap out of each other, the dealt with it remained calm amongst themselves and fixed it and re industrialized...

Drop an A bomb on any city in Africa and see what happens, look at Katrina, or Haiti right now...let's see how it swings internally.

It's not a commentary on better or worse... but a more reserved people can industrialize and live in crowded Urban conditions without inner violence...

This is not a cultural trait among many Africans...

And I honestly lean to Nurture not nature i.e... it's not a Race thing Imho but rather a cultural set of mannerisms...

Asian Philosophy works in a complex society imho... best in the world.

And I have seen this in effect, because I took many years of Martial Arts.

When you expose African Americans and they adopt these philosophies of discipline and control of motion and body language and behavior... they eliminate this kind of inner circle violence entirely.

It's just not a conducive culture for complex social living.

New World settlers caused the genocide and extinction of over 100 million natives.

Your being biased

The HIGHEST estimate of population of the New World ever conceived was around 100 Million total across the islands North and South America...

The lowest was 8 Million

So this is false because if we had killed 100 Million there would be no natives at all today

The majority of deaths by number were Incas /Aztecs high estimates have those civilizations at around 35 Million total

Those Natives, were ripping the hearts out of women atop temples, playing soccer with human heads and themselves had Enslaved almost all of the local indigenous tribes for the production of Cocoa of all things...

Not making a statement of better or worse than the conquistadors...

But they weren't a society of laughs and fun, they were murders, tortures, idol worshipers, slave drivers and wealth hoarders themselves.

And that aside...

They mostly weren't KILLED they ended up mating with the Spanish and becoming the people of Today of Mexico and Central America. Mexicans alone number around 105 Million today from 35 million then, that's not genocide or slaughter...

North America...

An insane tragedy but only 20 Million natives on the whole continent as a high estimate

Their culture? they are barely a blip in regards to violent crime stats i.e Murder rape, African Americans... the majority of all violence across the whole spectrum

what's the difference? What happened to the natives was worse... they suffer more to this day, why aren't they committing the murders?

There is only one answer, their culture, was essentially non violent, still is

The Belgians alone killed over 20-30 million natives in the Congo. India and China have been exploited for centuries.

Belgians today.... are killing absolutely no one

China and India Today... China is rising faster than any nation on Earth, India is right behind it.

We ALL have been abused, the settlers of North America were fleeing oppression too. Christians were thrown to the Lions

What all the cultures you mention have in common...

They have all suffered massive persecution, war, famine, plague etc... The Dark ages, Bubonic Plague... terrible horrors every culture on Earth has been put through, Russia was over run by the Mongols for gods sake...

The one thing in common, every one of those cultures repaired themselves.

African nations have a much harder time doing so.

It's not a crime or being racist or some commentary on your society to say it...

You can't even fix it if you don't say it...

What's the difference between African Cultures and all the rest, that they never have in all of history and currently can barely hold themselves together? why are complex social situation anathema to the African culture?

Just because some Freaks would use DIFFERENCE as an excuse to hate or harm... doesn't mean we can simply blame ourselves or ignore the reality. African culture despite a huge variety of beliefs philosophy etc... has trouble holding itself together in complex high population industrial situations.

What do Latin American, Asia, and Africa have in common? They are all still mostly underdeveloped.

yeah... but what's money? big deal, under developed... I live underdeveloped on purpose lol, I love the woods, it doesn't make me stupid, violent or lacking the capacity to function...

I could in a moment live in rural China or in much of Latin America, heck I'd love to live in parts of Asia or South America, sure in Latin America .... I'll give this one up, our war on drugs is a stupid thing that causes violence in some few areas... but mostly it's lovely

Asia... well Asia just flat out proves poverty and Violence need not be connected if your PHILOSOPHY of LIFE is a good one...

1 Million women weren't raped and abused despite any culture clashes we have had in the region (totally wrong yeah) but none the less SE Asia isn't a death factory a couple decades after the last time we acted like beasts to those people...

So I still Maintain the culture is not capable in Africa for one reason or another. But there definitively is a fundamental difference in social structure and capacity to pull together in a modern age...

What did they do to Western nations to deserve this? Absolutely nothing.

What did Germany and Japan do? (you can answer this) Yet billions were invested in them?

Nothing, war is moronic...

Who Ever deserves it?

Billions were reinvested, because their society had the capacity to return the investment, to recover, work together fast, strong effectively...

It might be corrupt to repair those you will profit from and not repair those who you wont... but it's not a conspiracy to eliminate One people and promote another. They just knew... set the Germans back up and they will totally pull it together.

Is it a brown vs beige thing? Hell no... or we never would have made friends with the Japanese again...

It's just obvious the culture simply is Amazing, was an adversary, but a damn worthy and effective one... you can take the Japanese to the bank... they lost gracefully and worked it all out, together... they don't Hate us even after the A bomb drops, they respected us most of them.

This is akin too 2 boys fighting on a horrific scale, that then find the value in each other and become friends.

This DOES NOT happen in some cultures... particularly the Mid East and Africa... Culture, those culture NEVER LET GO OF IT and frankly, none of us were alive through any of these tragedies.

I'm here supporting why we invested in Germany

I'm also a Jew...

And I have a lot of respect for German culture.

Every society on Earth is guilty of madness at one point or another to tell a German person they did something wrong who was born in 65 is simply Insanity at work.

Again, Culture...

Why is there this Large portion of African American male society in NY for example... that goes on and on about oppression and slavery and DIFFERENCE? despises ME to look at me?

My thought on it, A Portion of the culture simply refuses to let go and live in today. It's a way of thinking... They WANT to be different, they lack identity, they invent language and ideas purely for the sake of Not coming together

What your doing imho is adopting that attitude and I know it comes from a very positive and sincere place..

But what Belgium did in the 1800's and today have absolutely nothing to do with anything right now, it's not a road to peace but rather guilt and diminished of self out of sympathy.

The reality is today, right now, the vast majority of White Americans and Europeans practically bend over backwards and they are greeted with THIS, hate, the past, what happened before...

It does not change that every culture on Earth has been devastated by others... only a few, decide or lack the capacity to pull it back together within themselves





[edit on 17-1-2010 by mopusvindictus]

And die another day,

Please don't get me wrong, on a level I agree with you, Modern Society, (not western civilization) is BAD for Africa...

But the entire world, China, India, Most of South America... to one degree or another is successfully modernizing and coming together... it's not a Western Thing alone...

The Asians apparently are better suited for it than we are..

I just think, we face a real issue here that we shouldn't blame ourselves for because of atrocities of the past

Some cultures, aren't able to cope with the Modern world...reason all open for debate, but it's not intent...

It lies within the cultures themselves

reply to post by cenpuppie


skin color? get real.. a huge part of the population in latin america can be classified as being white. they have high levels of coruption and yet europe and the US doesn't intervene to make things better for those white folks. in fact you can demonstrate (quite easily) than american interests are keeping latin america 'down'.

as for germany being a highly developed country again.. well, is it so far fetched to consider giving credit to the german people? they're the ones that actually put that money to good use. take a look at some countries from eastern europe. they got a lot of funds from the EU and mostly wasted them because, as former communist states, corruption still haunts their countries. so really, if germany is doing well again, it's their merit and their merit alone.

Whites have always been the more brutal and intellectual race. We are beasts with intellect.

Pteridine is correct:

Slavery was not invented by any one race and is immeasurably old. The Africans used slaves, the Egyptians used slaves, the Persians used slaves, the Greeks used slaves, the Romans used slaves, and just about everyone else used slaves. Iceland, famous for its Democratic Althing, was populated by more slaves than free men. The Vikings raids were not for gold, but for slaves. Sold on the block in the northern slave markets, blue eyed blonds fetched a good price in Constantinople. At the time, the Vikings were the biggest slavers around. No Africans were involved in their trade.

BTW We are now all slaves of the corporate elite and wall street.

Start researching: who has been running the planet for the last ten thousand years, not the "white man"

I'm of Irish, Scotch, English and Welsh descent and of "peasant stock", my ancestors were the serfs ("modified" slaves of the British king).

Elliot's post is also most correct wherein it is stated,

In the last one thousand years, just from the British Isles, approximately 1 million men women and children have been abducted as slaves. This is historical fact and no conspiracy theory.

And yet, it is NEVER mentioned in schools and rarely in history books simply because these slaves were WHITE!

There is a growing hatred against the white race and it is manufactered by false and one sided history which is slowly destroying our belief in each other.

A lot of the history we are taught is plain and out right lies, designed to engender hatred.

The caucasions are as much victims of these lies as any other race and we need to look to who is manipulating the past in order to manipulate the future!

I suggest you read, "The Gods of Eden" by William Bramley and "Blue Blood, True Blood" by Stewart Swedlow.

Your post keeps pointing the finger at "the white man" you need to dig a little deeper.

There is a conspiracy but it's against the entire human race not just the black race.

reply to post by die_another_day


To tell you the truth i don't really understand how it is like this in the 21st Century... the slave trade ended 200 years ago so why since that time do black people in certain parts of the World still act as they do?

Ok, fair enough their ancestors were hard done by being persecuted but look at Obama or a number of other blacks who are famous!!

We know that trade has to play a part in peoples lives and that Gold and Diamonds are bought for cheap off of slave labour only to be sold for 50000 times what it was bought for....

Is there no trade in Haiti?
What is in Haiti?
Can there be wealth in Haiti?
Are the people being held back? (which looks the case not just in Haiti but in other parts of the World too)
Why no Education?

We can also see that Presidents and/or Governments who run predominantely black Country's don't do anything for their own people.... we see this in Zimbabwe, Somalia, Ethiopia etc etc...


Many questions which need answering....

[edit on 17-1-2010 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist]

[edit on 17-1-2010 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist]

reply to post by eightonefive


You said US will give away 100 billion dollars (one hundred billion dollars) to the people of Haiti.

You got 5 stars for that insightful post, so that must be some common knowledge I'm unaware of, as I hear for the first time US has given that much money for something that isn't global warming or a bombing raid.

I think your nationalism has increased that sum a thousand-fold but I may be wrong.

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


Today's slavery is in the form of economic slavery.

Debt = slavery, it happens on the individual level all the way up to the international level.