Something about Haiti that you need to know about

reply to post by Subjective Truth

Almost every country that is run by blacks and the main population is black is right on the edge of chaos. I think they have large cultural issues that seem to cross cultural lines even within their own race. A perfect example is ball players here in the US they have everything but still thirst for a life right on the edge?

What? That's a cultural economic issue. That's like me using those Enron execs and wall street bankers to ask why do white men with all the money scheme to steal everyone elses money, i guess THEY like to live on the edge too.

Bah, i need to fall back, i'm starting to get heated over here, .

Wow, you really don't know anything do you? Like all countries ran by white people are hunky dorey! Damn, then i guess Russia and all those European countries are running so smoothly that the current global recession isn't affecting them nor do they suffer from common social problems that people of ALL countries face? Wow, where would the world be without the insight, wisdom, and grace that only the white man has?

Keep these ignorant posts coming people..you haven't surprised me yet! .

FYI: As a Black American, it really hurts my national pride when more foreigners get it than actual Americans.


[edit on 16-1-2010 by cenpuppie]

reply to post by cenpuppie


sounds like you have a serious case of white guilt.

And also you can hardly say the US is run by white people it is a mix this is our greatest strength believe it our not. My post was about cultural issues with the black race.

[edit on 16-1-2010 by Subjective Truth]

reply to post by Subjective Truth


It has everything to do with cultural economics you you (i won't result to name calling, unlike you). Why don't you use google sometime and read up on the economic backgrounds of those NBA stars that love to "Live on the edge". Don't worry i can wait.

So when someone disagrees with you you just result to name calling eh? Good job chief...

And also you can hardly say the US is run by white people it is a mix this is our greatest strength believe it our not. My post was about cultural issues with the black race.

Ahh and so the truth comes out finally. Now i know where those comments came from *gives a long sigh*

[edit on 16-1-2010 by cenpuppie]

Prior to Christopher Columbus stumbling upon this Caribbean Island there was no recorded history. It is true, and recorded by the very "white men" the O.P. makes an undeniable effort to point out, that once arriving on this island it was shortly after that the indigenous people, known alternately as Taino or Arawakan, suffered near extinction, by what is commonly accepted as a lack of immunity to Old World diseases brought over by the Spanish colonists.

Before Columbus had claimed this island in the name of the Spanish crown it was referred to by its inhabitants as Ayiti, Bohio, or Kiskeya. Columbus renamed it La Isla Espanola otherwise known as The Spanish Island. This was in 1493, but by 1520 Spanish interests in this island were diminished for the more compelling riches of gold and silver found in South America and Mexico.

Pirates from the British, French and Dutch countries soon took control of this island, as the indigenous population grew slowly and Spanish colonists made many strategic mistakes as a reaction to the pirates. The villainy of Columbus and his attitudes toward indigenous people is well documented, as well as the ambitions for building empires of European countries that goes well back to Alexander the Great and before. Of course, "white male" European's were not the only men who engaged in these ambitions of empire building.

Before the Athenian and Roman Empires, examples of "white men", there were the Egyptian, Notre Chico, Indus Valley, Akkadian, Babylonian, Ancient Chinese, Hittite, Assyrian, Persian and Carthaginian Empires, who were not the "white men" the O.P. endeavors to single out. Empire building comes with its own villainy and "white men" don't hold any monopoly on the evils of humanity.

In terms of the suppression imposed upon Haiti by European colonists this is well documented and no one reasonably denies it. However, it should be made clear that Haiti is the world's oldest "black" republic and the second oldest republic in the entire Western Hemisphere. While the U.S. did not officially recognize Haiti until 1862, and indeed, that recognition was held back due to the efforts made by the Southern slave states of the U.S., it was also due to the efforts, of Senator Charles Sumner, who was famously anti-slavery, their independence was recognized.

While this thread is about Haiti, the O.P. did make an effort to single out "white males" as being the scourge of Haiti, it should be noted that these "white males", at least those of the U.S., are constantly lumped in with "white males" who fought earnestly, passionately and with strong conviction against crimes such as slavery and the abrogations and derogation's of the rights of all people regardless of their race.

This republic established by the Haitians came with a constitution established in 1804 that, among other things, established freedom of religion in a clear repudiation to the tyranny of the Catholic church, declared all citizen's "black" regardless of their skin color in an attempt to reverse the hierarchy where "white" people had previously ruled at the top, and forbade "white" people to own property or establish domain upon Haitian soil.

This constitution was authorized by the Haitian General Jean-Jacques Dessalines who was a leader in the Haitian Revolution that led to their independence. He did, however, declare himself Emperor of Haiti and imposed an autocratic styled government upon the people of Haiti. He was eventually assassinated by his own advisers, Henri Christophe and Alexandre Petion in 1806. These two assassins then divided Haiti into two rival governments. Chirstophe was responsible for authoritarian State of Haiti where he attempted to impose a strict and brutal system of agriculture similar to the plantations of the Southern States in the U.S. and over labor in general. Petion, on the other hand, was instrumental in establishing the Republic of Haiti in the South. Tragically, it was Chirstophe's semi slave state that produced the more stable economy of the two state solution.

While the state founded by Petion was one of the more liberal and tolerant governments ever to exist in Haiti, it was also constantly on the brink of bankruptcy which brought with that its own political chaos. Petion was also a key ally and supporter of Simon Bolivar, the South American revolutionary responsible for helping South America gain its own independence. Petion gave Bolivar asylum when he needed it, and supplied his army with soldiers and other support. Despite these noble acts, Petion finally gave in to despotism himself, after years of fighting with the senate of this Southern state, suspending the legislature and declared himself president for life, which was short lived as he died of yellow fever soon after.

By 1811 Christophe had declared himself King Henri I and emulated the very "white" European monarchs the O.P. clearly reviles. Christophe wound up committing suicide in 1820 rather than face the coup de tat by a populace tired of his authoritarian regime and it was Petion's successor, Jean Pierre Boyer who finally united the divided Haiti into one country. Boyer, however, was not above empire building himself, and in 1822 occupied Santo Domingo an island that had declared independence from Spain in 1821. The government Boyer had established was known for its iron fist rule, and because of this there are still deep resentments between people from the Dominican Republic and Haiti.

Even so, Boyer had orchestrated the single largest free black immigration policy in history, aiding as much as 6000 black people from the U.S. in immigrating to Haiti and helping them to settle in various parts of Haiti. Due to political debts, primarily with France, Boyer faced difficult political and financial struggles and attempted to impose what is known as the Code Rural, which was an effort of forced labor not willingly accepted by veterans of a revolution fought to escape such tyranny. For this reason, the exportation of sugar became virtually non existent and the economy came to rely more upon the exportation of coffee that required less cultivation and can grow in a semi-wild state.

The political struggles of Haiti continued as Charles Riviere-Herard overthrew Boyer's regime in 1843, and this was followed by a series of presidents transient in political nature until General Faustin Soulouque, a former slave, and it should be noted at this point that their obvious French names should not be confused for European "white males", first became president but soon declared himself Emperor Faustin I. Faustin also ruled with an iron fist until he was disposed by General Fabre Geffrad who also went by the name of the Duke of Tabara.

It wasn't until the election of Michel Domingue that a more feasible government and constitution was worked out, and by 1879 under the leadership of Domingue, Haiti was finally able to pay off its debt to France and what followed was a time of prosperity and cultural renaissance.

It was that constitutional government established in 1867, that allowed Haiti to finally experience a time of relative peace and prosperity with much progress in stabilizing the economy and political faith of the government by the Haitian people. For a time, the development of sugar and rum industries in Haiti were considered to be models of economic growth in Latin America.

By 1911 the stability had come to an abrupt end with yet another revolution that led to foreign interventions, which is a history in scope too grand to cover in the space that is left, but the point of the history related in this post is to counter the obvious myopic history lesson offered by the O.P. and to stress that while "white males" no doubt engaged in villainies perpetuated upon the Haitian people, so too did Haitians engage in this villainy as well, all too willing to enslave their very own people in the name of ambition and wealth.

[edit on 16-1-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]

reply to post by cenpuppie


I love it you insult me and then have the nerve to cry when I return the favor to you. You bleeding heart progressives are hard to argue with because the world you live in is not one based in reality. You hurl insults and then cry when they are returned. Grow a spine words are not sticks and stones.

You claim it has everything to do with economics then please explain the super rich athletes to me or the elite blacks that run countries. You claim the white race has done it to these people I call bullsh*t every race has had to overcome obstacles why do the blacks have such troubles with it culturally? I will list some problems I see and I believe none of them have to do with the white race holding them down.


Over 70% percent of black homes are fatherless in America

Push for more rights than others affirmative action

Are the majority population in us jails

Idolize the gangster lifestyle

Only 51% of blacks graduate high school in the US

I believe the problems they have are all related to your way of thinking they never own up to the problems but push blame on others and progressives like you buy right into it. The reality is what you are doing is far worse than anything I have said you actually are holding them down and as long as they think this way will never as a culture overcome. It is a shame Martin Luther King died he had it right it. He even more than the founding fathers understood what America is truly about.







[edit on 16-1-2010 by Subjective Truth]

Originally posted by cenpuppie
As for pteridine, yes the Africans had slaves but it was a totally different system, read up on it. Everyone had slaves back in the day no one is denying that. The Egyptians, Persians, and Greeks didn't enslave a whole ethnic group because of skin color or because they needed cheap labor to work their agriculture fields like the Europeans did, nor did they use slavery to revive their economy...that's why Britain got back into it.

Different system? How was slavery not slavery? The Africans that had slaves were selling them to the American slave trade. Egyptians, Persians, and Greeks enslaved people because they conquered them and needed cheap labor. When the Greeks had slaves making their ships, they could afford floating tenons mortising the boards of the hull together. This made the ships much more resistant to torque from heavy seas opening the joints and made them more likely to survive storms. Cheap labor was not necessary for agriculture but came in handy in the shipyards.
Note that the "whole ethnic group" was not enslaved. The slave sellers were also of that "ethnic group." When the Vikings were enslaving early inhabitants of the British Isles, they were also slave sellers of the "same ethnic group." Based on your argument, the Vikings enslaved a "whole ethnic group," also.
How was it different, again?