911 Commission Senior Counsel: Report is a lie

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posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 12:57 PM
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No surprise here. It doesn't take much research to begin to see the bigger picture. 9/11 was a planned attack by our own government, plain and simple. Why some people can not even fathom that their own government could be the enemy is sad. Our government has given us no reason to trust them yet many still do. I don't know, sometimes I just feel like there really is no hope in this country. All the signs are so clear that 9/11 was fake. I just don't understand. My heart really goes out to all those lost in 9/11 and their families. They're the one's who are most affected by this atrocity and if they demand the truth like so many of them have been doing, then they deserve the truth. Just how to get that information is the problem.




posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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"Plenty of people waste time and energy arguing against truthers instead of fixing what is wrong with this country."

Has it ever occurred to you that these same people do not want to fix what is wrong with the country and just want to keep flushing it down the toilet for their own selfish purposes? 9/11 is the epitome of what is wrong with the USA and those who knowingly continue to support this monstrous lie are just as insidious, cowardly and guilty as the perpetrators.

Those who don't know any better and continue to believe all the crap that has been shoveled at them are just imbeciles, although just as dangerous to freedom as the aforementioned groups. Once a sell out, always a sell out.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by seethelight
 



Remember, the title of this thread is a lie. The entire concept of this thread is untrue.


Well, the man who is the Senior Counsel for the 911 Commission (the OS) stated that the OS is a lie.

And you say it isn't....

Wonder whom I'll believe


Thank you for the typical skeptical wisdom. It proves nothing. It demonstrates a lot. Much of which I'd never say in public because much of the public knows it's a lie. Maybe one day you'll actually see the light.

Have nice day.


[edit on 19-1-2010 by mikelee]



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by SphinxMontreal
 





Has it ever occurred to you that these same people do not want to fix what is wrong with the country and just want to keep flushing it down the toilet for their own selfish purposes? 9/11 is the epitome of what is wrong with the USA and those who knowingly continue to support this monstrous lie are just as insidious, cowardly and guilty as the perpetrators.


Pretty much dead on how I feel about the truth movement. No matter how much actual evidence you give them, they keep bringing up their professors of theology, their water lab supervisors and their fringe lunatics (Ted Gunderson) as "experts" on the events of 9/11.

Truther: Cell phone calls from airplanes are impossible. David Ray Griffen said so.

Realist: Well, the majority of the calls were from Airfones...with the exception of a couple calls made when Flight 93 was within horizontal/vertical range of a couple cell towers.

Truther: Well the calls were faked using super secret voice morphing technology

Realist: You still have to have samples of someone's voice for it to work.

Truther: Well, its the GOVERNMENT, they have all of us on tape.

Realist: Several Flight 93 passengers were last minute add-ons and one, was so late that his name wasnt on the manifest the gate agent printed just prior to taxi. Nothing the government does is that efficient.

Truther: Well, Mark Bingham started his phone call to his mother "This is Mark Bingham" HIS MOTHER!!!!! Who does that?

Realist: Well, according to Mark's mother....Mark started all his phone calls like that...even those to his mom.






Truther: The Senior Counsel for the 9/11 Commission said the Commission report is a lie.

Realist: That same individual (John Farmer) has stated on numerous occasions that he believes the Report is accurate and that his problem was the testimony of government officials had made it look like the US Government was a well oiled machine in responding that day...when in reality it was a class one charlie foxtrot all the way around.

Truther: But Mr Farmer said the report was a lie...and David Ray Griffen agrees with him.

Realist: Enjoy the warm feeling around your head that you get when it is stuck in the sand.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by GoldenFleece
 


Try reading the Military Commissions Act. Then start reading some of the documents from the military court. Then the fog might start to clear.

The Justice Department doesnt file charges in a military court.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Truther: Cell phone calls from airplanes are impossible. David Ray Griffen said so.

Realist: Well, the majority of the calls were from Airfones...with the exception of a couple calls made when Flight 93 was within horizontal/vertical range of a couple cell towers.


Reality: American Airlines claims that particular plane did not have airphones which means that someone is lying.


Truther: Well the calls were faked using super secret voice morphing technology

Realist: You still have to have samples of someone's voice for it to work.


Reality: No. All you need is a person. How many times has someone said, over the phone, "Why doesn't it sound like you?" It happens often enough that I am not alone in experiencing that. I have never had the advantage of claiming to be on a hijacked plane to explain the change in my voice. No super secret anything and no samples needed.


Truther: Well, its the GOVERNMENT, they have all of us on tape.

Realist: Several Flight 93 passengers were last minute add-ons and one, was so late that his name wasnt on the manifest the gate agent printed just prior to taxi. Nothing the government does is that efficient.


Reality: G.W. Served a wonderful purpose and you are a prime example of how well it worked. 'The gubment is a bunch o' moe rons!' Actually there are plenty of examples of the government being quite efficient and resourceful. My friends in the military are rather proud of the results of their efforts on behalf of the government. Perhaps you would like to tell me what it is about the military that suck so much so I can report back and see what we can do about it.


Truther: Well, Mark Bingham started his phone call to his mother "This is Mark Bingham" HIS MOTHER!!!!! Who does that?

Realist: Well, according to Mark's mother....Mark started all his phone calls like that...even those to his mom.


....and your source for that? You do not think that is an odd enough bit of trivia to at least attempt to backup?


Truther: The Senior Counsel for the 9/11 Commission said the Commission report is a lie.

Realist: That same individual (John Farmer) has stated on numerous occasions that he believes the Report is accurate and that his problem was the testimony of government officials had made it look like the US Government was a well oiled machine in responding that day...when in reality it was a class one charlie foxtrot all the way around.


Reality: You cannot have you cake and eat it too. You cannot claim that the report was solid but testimony given to make up the report was flawed. That is not how logic works. You did not even twist it correctly.


Truther: But Mr Farmer said the report was a lie...and David Ray Griffen agrees with him.

Realist: Enjoy the warm feeling around your head that you get when it is stuck in the sand.


Reality: Swampfox has run out of excuses for his OS and cannot rectify the fact that the report is either a lie, or the truth made up of lies. It matters not what Griffen says. Mr. Farmer made it clear that the report is flawed at best whether you take his claim that it is a lie or his claim that it is not a lie but the testimony given for it is. Reality might server you well here.

Aside from that, what good does it really do you to claim that the same mane claimed this and that? How does that make your claim of his claim more valid. We both know he said both things. Why should we pick yours? Let's look deeper. Testimony given was flawed. Hmmmmm.....

[edit on 1/19/10 by Lillydale]



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 11:03 PM
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Hey Swampfox,

You finally wrote a word that I can connect with:

Realist.

That's an awesome word! Do you want to start a "Realist Movement" to work both sides of the fence? Somebody has to unite this bickering and put it to good use.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by SphinxMontreal]



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by Lillydale
 


A prime example of my previous post. No matter what evidence is shown, she will come up with other ways to try and make her story work.

Truther: American Airlines did not have Airfones on those jets, a customer service rep told us that.

Realist: American Airlines had no maintenance records showing that the phones had either been deactivated/removed from either of its jets involved that day. And from other sources, it is clear that AA still had working phones on those jets until 2002.

Of course.....this wouldnt affect the calls from Flight 93 in the slightest.

This one you will have to work for. Discovery interviewed Alice Hogland, Mark's mother, and she had this to say.....


Hoglan: Once in a while he would say that. He would call up, and he was, he was a young businessman, and used to, used to introduce himself on phone as Mark Bingham, and he was trying to be, uh, strong, and level-headed, and, and strictly business. "Mom, this is Mark Bingham".


dsc.discovery.com...

BTW.....try reading his book, it might keep you from making posts like this....




Mr. Farmer made it clear that the report is flawed at best whether you take his claim that it is a lie or his claim that it is not a lie but the testimony given for it is. Reality might server you well here.


[edit on 19-1-2010 by Swampfox46_1999]

[edit on 19-1-2010 by Swampfox46_1999]



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by Lillydale
 

A prime example of my previous post. No matter what evidence is shown, she will come up with other ways to try and make her story work.

You mean like what you've been doing, right here?




[edit on 1/20/2010 by GoldenFleece]



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by MaxBlack
 


Well articulated.

These 911 threads seem to generate considerable interest on many levels and I've noticed admissions over the years from various publications that did pieces on the controversy of responses on both sides were overwhelming.

That kind of interest is a pretty "big hook" to dangle under the noses of many MS published news organizations facing reader and financial demise and maybe it's only a matter of time before they conclude that it's honest news, as in their heydays, or go under.

Many oldsters don't read the MS media any longer and certainly won't spend money on newspapers that brings lies to the people (the government position/OS). Lack of accountability has killed the Sunday Morning News programs as well.

Truth for the Truthers isn't going to go away. Once you know you can never not know, and a person of integrity won't parrot what they know in their heart to be a lie barring some serious Big Brother re-education.

Truther's vindication comes from the growth of the movement over the years and this alone is the reward that should bring great satisfaction to them. Many stand together in this world asking for truth.

Most people shown evidence are at least convinced of the need for an new 911 investigation. Unfortunately this has not occurred with the OS supporters but whatever these "unconvinceables" motivation, it often appears polluted.

And these threads always go the same boring route. Fighting back and forth over the same crapolla and in many cases gaining nothing except a shaky platform for relatively ignorant positions.

They'll never see the light nor will they seek for it, so rather then allow them to bar the way, simply go around. Don't sink to the level of 4th graders. Ignore them. And then tell them you ignore them, and why; nothing more.

I suggest that all of these 911 threads begin with 2 lists containing the stage names of the consistently typical players on both sides and brief histories. After that everybody can track some by the bells around their necks.

Let's move this discussion beyond the petty bickering which only dissipates serious energy and puts many of us in bed with people we normally wouldn't give the time of day to, or shake hands with.

There are plenty of people in government who have figured out this mess but are unable to Act or Speak for obvious reasons. I bet that one day (with a little encouragement) many of them can perform individual acts of truth and integrity.

And finally, it seems important that Patriots in America realize they're not alone. Much of the rest of the world figured out the inconsistencies of 911, often long before many in the US, and for the first time, history will soon be rewritten to reflect truth.





[edit on 20-1-2010 by Brown Bear]

[edit on 20-1-2010 by Brown Bear]



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by Brown Bear
 

Well,speaking as one who called it a fraud as it happened,as I was being bumped off the air on a radio show on another topic...I have been passionate and unrelenting at my persuasion of friends and relations and I must say my debate skills and command of the arguments and sources of great info has increased exponentially since my time here at ATS.I had but one field of related expertise and now can relay accurate info in lots of fields.(That presentation of the 'forest' of fraud relating to foreknowledge was new and fascinating,well worth the half hour.)

What you characterize as bickering is good for that at least.

I also think we're dealing with a sort of military mindset.Like people who think what they're told and not ever questioning.Not meaning to broad brush,but there are some who go for that..


[edit on 20-1-2010 by trueforger]



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


Dood, you're kicking so much ass in this thread... long live Swampfox!



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by seethelight
 

What a sycophant. Only someone who's been caught lying about OBL being indicted could consider the King of Disinfo their hero.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


Pretty much dead on how I feel about the truth movement. No matter how much actual evidence you give them, they keep bringing up their professors of theology, their water lab supervisors and their fringe lunatics (Ted Gunderson) as "experts" on the events of 9/11.


No matter how much evidences you give the OS believers that have been on ATS for a long time, they still run to a proven debunked, book of proven lies of the NIST, & 911 commission reports, with their snake oil sales men selling pseudo sciences and praying on the masses to be ignorant of sciences.

You want to talk about people who were paid to deliberately to deceive the American people and was paid for by our hard working Americans tax dollars, talk about a slap in our faces.


Truther: Cell phone calls from airplanes are impossible. David Ray Griffen said so.


No sciences said so, not just one man!



Realist: Well, the majority of the calls were from Airfones...with the exception of a couple calls made when Flight 93 was within horizontal/vertical range of a couple cell towers.


That has yet to be proved, but thank you for your opinion.


Truther: Well the calls were faked using super secret voice morphing technology

Realist: You still have to have samples of someone's voice for it to work.


Not really, especially if it was all made up to begin with. Yes this is my opinion, however the above quote is your opinion, nothing more.


Truther: Well, Mark Bingham started his phone call to his mother "This is Mark Bingham" HIS MOTHER!!!!! Who does that?

Realist: Well, according to Mark's mother....Mark started all his phone calls like that...even those to his mom.


Do you have a video of “Mark's mother” making this claim? Or do you make things up as you go?


Truther: The Senior Counsel for the 9/11 Commission said the Commission report is a lie.

Realist: That same individual (John Farmer) has stated on numerous occasions that he believes the Report is accurate and that his problem was the testimony of government officials had made it look like the US Government was a well oiled machine in responding that day...when in reality it was a class one charlie foxtrot all the way around.


Good for you, you fell for these people nonsense, once proven a lair, always a lair.


Realist: Enjoy the warm feeling around your head that you get when it is stuck in the sand.


Yeah, that goes both ways here.
Why do you even bother, you have all your answer to 911 you are convinces it is “one hundred percent true.” Most of us are not interested in the proven OS lies; perhaps you can find a newbie that is ignorant of the facts to peddle your OS to, by snake oil sales men.


Truther: But Mr Farmer said the report was a lie...and David Ray Griffen agrees with him.


No, most people in the world agree with him, even though (John Farmer) is still a proven lair.

David Ray Griffin is not the proven lair in here.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by impressme
 


Its "evidence" not "evidences"

Its "liar' not "lair"

Now on to the rest of your post..




No sciences said so, not just one man!


"Sciences" didnt say so, people did. Other engineers have pointed out that cell calls are possible under certain conditions....that has been shown to you more than once, you still ignore it.




That has yet to be proved, but thank you for your opinion.


No, its a fact that the majority of the calls were made by Airfones. Between the hard copy records and the operators that dealt with these calls, we know this. In addition, people have gone to the length of verifying the height of cell towers along Flight 93's path and also used the radar/data recordings of the flight to show that yes, those TWO cell calls took place in an area which would fit into the limitations of the network. Again, this has been shown to you more than once....and you ignore it.

Not that it matters, but here are some of the cell towers along Flight 93's path..

www.debunk911myths.org...-0


Not really, especially if it was all made up to begin with. Yes this is my opinion, however the above quote is your opinion, nothing more.


Yes, these super secret gubmint agents knew the intimate details of the people on Flight 93 and were able to fake the phone calls convincingly enough to fool the family members.....Lord PLEASE tell me this guy doesnt vote.





Do you have a video of “Mark's mother” making this claim? Or do you make things up as you go?


I posted a link to the Discovery Channel website were you can watch the video. But im pretty sure you will say shes lying too.




find a newbie that is ignorant of the facts to peddle your OS to



I have, take a long look in the mirror to meet him.

[edit on 20-1-2010 by Swampfox46_1999]



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 

Its “I’m” not “im.”

Its “didn’t” not “didnt.”

Its “doesn’t” not “doesnt.”

Before you can become ATS “spelling police” perhaps you need to learn to spell yourself!



No sciences said so, not just one man!



"Sciences" didnt say so, people did. Other engineers have pointed out that cell calls are possible under certain conditions....that has been shown to you more than once, you still ignore it.


You continue to ignore the evidences, and experts opinions in the cell phone industries whom say it is not possible.



That has yet to be proved, but thank you for your opinion.

No, its a fact that the majority of the calls were made by Airfones.



Why, because the FBI said so. You seem to have a problem when our experts said so, but is ok for your expert to say it ok, well I have to disagree with you. Again, your sources that are the FBI have been proven lairs.


Between the hard copy records and the operators that dealt with these calls,


You have all these hard copies record?, Can you prove these records are not made up? I do not think so.


In addition, people have gone to the length of verifying the height of cell towers along Flight 93's path and also used the radar/data recordings of the flight to show that yes, those TWO cell calls took place in an area which would fit into the limitations of the network. Again, this has been shown to you more than once....and you ignore it.


It sill doesn’t prove it is the facts, in fact it is nothing but speculation on the expert opinion, nothing more.



Not really, especially if it was all made up to begin with. Yes this is my opinion, however the above quote is your opinion, nothing more.

Yes, these super secret gubmint agents knew the intimate details of the people on Flight 93 and were able to fake the phone calls convincingly enough to fool the family members.....Lord PLEASE tell me this guy doesnt vote.


You could not answer my own opinion, so you think insulting and ridiculing.
You act as if nothing is possible! Anything is possible; if a false flag operation was done, anyone could have paid people in one room to orchestrate all these phone calls.

Why don’t you ask Ted Olsen why he lied about his wife phone calls that never happened?



Do you have a video of “Mark's mother” making this claim? Or do you make things up as you go?

I posted a link to the Discovery Channel website were you can watch the video. But im pretty sure you will say shes lying too.


I don’t have weeks to search through all of ATS data base of information, perhaps you can provide this link to back your claim.



find a newbie that is ignorant of the facts to peddle your OS to


I have, take a long look in the mirror to meet him.


Your slimy insults are noted, however I am “not a newbie,” and I do not believe in the fallacies of the OS fairytales.



[edit on 20-1-2010 by impressme]



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by trueforger
 


Well put. And my opinion is that the truth cannot be spoken without being understood (at least momentarily) and reacted too (even if unconsciously). And I think that's the source of the obtuseness presented by OS mongers.

The case, to make my point, is found merely by reading the posts following my OP a page back. Who is this Swampfox except some cretin who has a platform to inflict his own lack of consciousness? And the same for a few other "usual suspects' as well.

I suggest they be called out by name at the beginning of the thread so the rest of us can pass bye their repetitious confusion. Very simple and effective for those who want to suffer as little as possible from exposure to the stupidity of the Masses.

Because that's really what so many of these morons are doing, besides expressing their sick need to express inferiority complexes; but most especially, what they demonstrate is eyes that can never see and ears that will never hear.

While I applaud your efforts toward spreading 911 Truth it's no more or less than many others have done, and are doing. It's not necessary to "know" or to fight over every event, is it? Do the work where it can do some good.

What matters at this stage of the game is for the Truthers to come together on the same page with a position that the simpliest simpleton can understand, not individual issues but on the need for an investigation.

Simple, and I suggest that Truthers at least go on the offensive to identify the Swampfoxes of the ATS world, sic the hounds on them and tie bells around their neck like lepers, to warn decent Human Beings about them.

ATS has some good moments.

[edit on 20-1-2010 for spelling by Brown Bear]

[edit on 20-1-2010 for spelling by Brown Bear]

[edit on 20-1-2010 for spelling by Brown Bear]

[edit on 20-1-2010 by Brown Bear]



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by Brown Bear
Simple, and I suggest that Truthers at least go on the offensive to identify the Swampfoxes of the ATS world, sic the hounds on them and tie bells around their neck like lepers, to warn decent Human Beings about them.

It's been tried many times.

My last attempt received 118 flags before it was shut down by an ATS mod.



[edit on 1/21/2010 by GoldenFleece]



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 02:12 AM
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First of all, I do think the OP was a bit off-base in trusting the news article he read about Farmer's book, and using that to inform his choice of headlines. I listened to the interview with Farmer from a link on the first page, and it would seem Farmer's focus is clearly not the one implied by the article the OP quotes.

That said, what Farmer does say clearly calls into question the official story of what the government response was, and the fact that the primary sources changed their stories when interviewed personally for the book does little to support the official story or the idea that they were blameless incompetents and victims of that old bugaboo bureaucracy. They admitted to lying to the commission, so of course the next story they told should be assumed to be the unvarnished truth? Hardly.

Farmer is a lawyer, and though some may hold those of that profession in high regard, I am not one of them. They are experts at manipulating opinion through language, and so I agree with those on this thread who have questioned whether or not Farmer's book should be viewed with any credibility whatsoever.

I must say, though, that he held together during the interview fairly well, right up until the end. When asked about the Pentagon and the tapes confiscated from surrounding businesses...well, let me quote from the interview itself:


BF: Thanks, Keith. Yeah, and did you get to look at those tapes from the Pentagon, John?

JF: Yes, we did, and- and, uh, I know there's been a lot of speculation about, um, about, you know, whether a plane actually hit the Pentagon- I can assure you that it did. And, um, and they were actually able to reconstruct, uh, large components of the plane, and actually someone who was a member of my team was a naval intelligence officer in the Pentagon that morning, uh, was severely burned, and in fact everybody in his unit was killed, and, and, had uh, permanent lung damage from inhaling jet fuel- he has, he has no doubt that a plane hit the Pentagon.

BF: But why was there no debris field, really, out there in Pennsylvania, and why have no pieces of the plane showed up from the Pentagon crash?

JF: Well, pieces of the plane do exist from the Pentagon crash. Uh, um, and I would take issue with the Pennsylvania remark, too- I mean I think the Pennsylvania, uh- situation is accounted for by the fact that the angle at which the plane hit the ground was almost directly perpendicular, and I think that accounted for how deep the crater was. And the other question to ask yourself, with respect to this, is- well, if American 77 didn't hit the Pentagon, what happened- what happened to- what happened to American 77? And what about the passengers who were calling from the plane, saying they were coming back to Washington?

BF: OK, and just to be clear, 'cause we're hittin' the clock here, John- you have seen 'tapes' of a plane hitting the Pentagon?

JF: Well, uh, no I haven't seen tapes- pictures of a plane actually hitting the Pentagon, but there were eyewitness accounts, uh and as I said, there were- there were- pictures of a plane in the vicinity-


I believe this is a perfect example of someone trying to play both sides and make a few bucks in the process. He pretends to be leading the Truth movement on, but in fact is still shilling for the official story. Just another con man.

So move along, folks, nothing to see here.



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by seethelight

Originally posted by REMISNE

Originally posted by seethelight
Explain why the State Department publicly states on his wanted page he was responsible, and offer a reward for his capture.


Sorry but both the FBI and Department of Justice has officially stated many times that there is not enough evidence to charge OBL with being behind 9/11.



Sorry, but the State Department claims it right here:

www.rewardsforjustice.net...

"Usama bin Ladin is wanted in connection with the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center "



Rewardsforjustice.net is not a US State Department site, nor a US government site at all. And the FBI does not have any mention of bin Laden being wanted for any crimes except deaths that occurred OUTSIDE the United States.

I think you need to be a little more careful in vetting the arguments you want to use, or risk being called the pot who called the kettle black.

[edit on 1/21/10 by without_prejudice]

[edit on 1/21/10 by without_prejudice]





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