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A little discussion about Revolution and the Declaration of Independance

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posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 11:58 PM
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reply to post by Griever0311
 


Yes, that is good reasoning me thinks.

No man is an island.

Keep it coming folks.




posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 12:03 AM
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Hello,
I have an idea as to how to go about getting a peaceful revolution underway; is as follows.
Organise a "walkout" is how I picture it. I think that if enough of us can organise a certain day to take a stand and send a message to TPTB; We've decided to stop the flow of "our assets" today because we don't like the way our money; "our assets" is being handled.
I'm positive that the number crunchers are anticipating an X amount of dollars to flow in on any given day. Ideally, I'd like a four week vacation myself, to go out into the streets and band together and refuse to go back to work until an item on our list of demands is met... This too should be organised and signed like a petition.
Airline pilots, transportation workers; so people who want to "sleep" it off and work anyway have to find another means of travel to and from work. If enough noise is made in the streets, how can the MSM not cover it? Organising is the key, and the hardest point as far as the forest will allow me to see through the trees, this is the extent of my input.
People in the health industry should be allowed to go to work without any backlash from the rev's. They do have a moral obligation.
Maybe my history isn't so good but a Paul Revere once rode a horse and made a fuss for the people to "Wake up!"
This isn't exactly my idea. I've worked in a factory with a bunch of Latinos/latinas, they staged a walkout, and it was somewhat successful.
I'm anxious to hear any feedback, let's make it go viral!



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 12:59 AM
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What is it going to take?

We are all little frogs (my favorite analogy these days froggy stew), slowly and steadily (well not so slow these days) getting the heat turned up.

Off the top of my head:
the patriot act
land taken with 'eminent domain'
EPA forcing the CO2 issues in defiance of congress
Bribes (using our tax money) to senators and now unions
Govt. running what used to be private business (cars/banks to start)
White House 'czars' openly saying there should be no first and second amendments.
White House czars ...they shouldn't even be
Dept. of Homeland Security calling veterans potential terrorists

Ok, I am stopping with the list, its way too depressing. I know this, in Eastern Europe what it took was HUNGER.



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by Chett
 


And hunger it will be as you will See.



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 01:10 AM
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The Constitution is not the problem. It is the highest and best example of a fundamental governing document that has ever been devised by the minds of human beings.

Our problem is in its implementatiton, or should I better say "perversion", by those who we have entrusted with our governance under its guidance.

It is time for a revolution. But that requires a commitment by a vast numbers of citizens. Of course, the problem lies in educating enough Americans to realize the problems that exist and then moblizing enough of them to unified action to actually bring about the needed changes.

But, again, the problem isn't the Constitution. Rather, it's the career politicians who pervert their positions of public trust for personal gain and who bend to the dictates of special interests in response to the incentives offered them by the relentless pressure put upon them by the lobbyists and by their fellow legislators to the effect that they need to go along to get along in the perverse community known as Congress.



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by Chett
 


One of the things Chett that is pissing me off the worse is their institution of divisive techniques and the installation of legislated and mandated class structures.

Bribing states, representatives, or anyone against their agenda. The union people not having to pay this new tax system they are installing, otherwise known as the health care crisis repair bill, is the one that has sent me over the edge.

The coming cap and tax another straw, which in this case is equal to the weight of a singularity, is the next unlawful measure they have to crush us under tyranny.

Anger is one of their weapons, we must see it for what it is. We must not fall for the anger and firmly resolve to fight with all of our voices.

We will not submit to tyranny, we will not be slaves, we will not allow them to destroy the last dreams we have.

I would like to quote MLK Jr at this time-




But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred.



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 01:19 AM
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I would like to continue on this way for a moment, if no one minds. MLK Jr was an inspirational, intelligent and very influential speaker. Read some more of his speeches and just replace the negro word for people and see he spoke the truth. He was so far ahead of his time. He and JFK's speeches I have read so many times, I swear what they had said comes through in a lot of my thought processes.

Another quote by MLK Jr-




As we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall always march ahead. We cannot turn back. There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as the Negro is the victim of the unspeakable horrors of police brutality. We can never be satisfied, as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as our children are stripped of their selfhood and robbed of their dignity by signs stating "For Whites Only". We cannot be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream.

I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow jail cells. Some of you have come from areas where your quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive.


[edit on 1/16/2010 by endisnighe]



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 01:22 AM
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reply to post by dubiousone
 


Why cannot more individuals see the writing on the wall?

Have they really dumbed down the populace this much?



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 01:41 AM
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A very appropriate time to be reading/quoting MLK!

I do believe he would be appalled if he could see what the country has become. Same for JFK.

Sadly if you look at the 'roots' of how we got where we are, it starts with them.

I am not a religious person but you can easily see how this has worked for a very long time. Jesus had great things to say. From that was born the CHURCH.

Mankind is sheer genius in taking kernels of truth and beauty and perverting them to gain power.

I was just reading a bit here about the out of control 'czars' and it struck me how we have come to complain about specific ones and their policies ....we have forgotten that there should not even be such a thing as a czar.



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 01:42 AM
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polynomialC.
You are obviously a troll. And I might add, a very stupid one at that. How about you address any or all of the ops original post. That way we would be able to observe exactly how much you don't know.
I am sure you are not a military veteran of the US either. If you are, then we are in huge trouble.




posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 01:53 AM
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reply to post by Chett
 


But Chett, even Nixon and Reagan had czars!



Oh how I wanna bitch slap someone when they use the argument that one corrupt or illegal act of another, excuses another same act.

Thanks a lot Chett, you just got me thinking about trolls.



edit to add-As for Jesus, I am a Christian and my father grew weary of the "Church" and imparted a lot of his distrust for organized religion.

There is good and evil everywhere. The "Church" being one of those everywhere's. The soul is the manifestation of God so to speak, and the residence of both good and evil can reside there. One must only believe to further ones own good.

Kind of a view I hold.

[edit on 1/16/2010 by endisnighe]



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by Chett
 


But Chett, even Nixon and Reagan had czars!




The roots of the corruption run deep and long. We are going to need some super-dooper Round-up to get rid of this mess.

True Story:When parliment met in Romania after their revolution the first thing they did was throw out ALL the existing laws. They started this country over with a clean slate. Its by no means perfect, in fact it is slowly becoming infected by the EU. A reset button is a good idea, but people won't push it until they have 'nothing left to lose'.



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 02:19 AM
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reply to post by Chett
 


If I cannot get to that reset button, or better said that we cannot get to that reset button, I feel that within two years I am going to have to move on.

I cannot live under this yolk much longer. If I was to do, what I have done in the past 20 years of my life, 60 years ago, I could retire now.

I have barely anything to show for my 60 hour work weeks. Over the past 5 years I worked my tail off to get back above broke. 60-70 hour 6 day work weeks, building large commercial and residential construction projects. A vehicle, tools and some items like the computer and other minor items, is what I have to show for 20 some odd years of work. I do have enough to last a little while longer. It is so frustrating to think that the government collected over 60% of what I earned, in my lifetime. Sometimes I wish the Mafia ran things, they only collect 20% off the top.
,
It makes me sad to think of what the people growing up now will have to face.



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 04:13 AM
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1st

We have to pick someone who already is on the inside and hope and believe and give support that they can accomplish the new agenda.

The new agenda of the party is exactly to fix these problems as outlined in the grievances.

The two parties have to be split and a new one developed for the people.

If this individual does not create or foster leadership they will be replaced. This person would provide a beach head to make inroads.

The unemployed, the ones in debt, the ones losing their houses, the ones in jail and coming out of jail have to be sought. In other words we have to grab everyone who has nothing and go up.

Party goals:

Along with addressing the grievances. We demand action and solidarity. We are prepared to hang, fight and die if need be.

In mass, each member of the party, would refuse to pay federal and state tax. We would have to coalesce into a group that gives, provides food, shelter, and security.

If need be, areas, states would be designated HQ's or disbursing centers. Money would have to donated, we would enrich the populace where the states and federal government have failed. Engender the populace.

All individuals working on behalf of said political party would only be provided at maximum: food, shelter and security. Income is to the party and "potential new members, until a new economic model is created. One for the party might be based on trade of services or goods as needed.

Food farms, security training facilities, managerial and administration training would have to be provided.

Sure a certain % of each is needed and as personal inclination provides, free choice would prevail to a point. New recruits might find themselves on the food farm or security training but ... each and every individual has a full vote on party policies.

People would be strictly rotated out from administration, to food, to shelter creating a truly multifaceted face of the individual.

A 3-5-7 year plan needs to be addressed. Eventually, at some point, once grievances are fixed the party would restructure as global and domestic changes allow.

Priorities are to address the grievances. Once grievances are met, party and domestic life would return to a somewhat "new" and original beginning.

Bill of Rights, US Constitution would be the basis from which the grievances could be addressed.

One of the initial goals is to creat a 2nd Bill of Rights which would specifically address and make law to fix the grievances.

The party, this new party would work within the system and specifically if able make laws to address: taxes, corporations, role of federal government, jobs, health care, and education, lobbyists, wall street.

For example: http:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights

The Second Bill of Rights was a proposal made by United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt during his State of the Union Address on January 11, 1944 to suggest that the nation had come to recognize, and should now implement, a second bill of rights. Roosevelt did not argue for any change to the United States Constitution; he argued that the second bill of rights was to be implemented politically, not by federal judges. Roosevelt's stated justification was that the "political rights" guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights had "proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness." Roosevelt's remedy was to create an "economic bill of rights" which would guarantee:

* A job with a living wage
* Freedom from unfair competition and monopolies
* A home
* Medical care
* Education
* Recreation


If said new political party is not allowed to develop, if said members are labeled domestic terrorist, harassed, in anyway then of course we are being told we cannot as the people do that which our founding fathers said one day we might have to do.

That does not leave many options. If said party is not able to gather enough support of the people for whatever reason then said members have to be prepared to create zones, areas of control.

It will be truly give me liberty or give me death.

The party in its infancy has to create the 2nd Bill of Rights addressing the wrongs of the day. Elect officials. Create zones of influence and control. Create a body from which the others can see the repercussions. Through this we get more members as they see our vigilance and dedication.

As the party musters support and strength we gain a stronger voice. We act within the system, within the law. As the economy falls we stand ready to sweep up the displaced masses.

Its simple.

Party attaches to willing political figures already in the system.

Those who have stood fast outside the two main parties.

We give support.

We demand 2nd Bill of Rights.

We demand action on the grievances.

We vote within the party.

We act accordingly.

Said individuals within the system get the collective power of the new party. Some of this perhaps is already in place.

You would need at least 1,500 people willing to work 40-80 hours a week, with a goal of trying to start somewhere around 50-100 of the House and 2-4 Senators at first.

The party forms first.

The 2nd Bill of Rights is written.

Individuals within the system are questioned and if they agree they get our support.

Each member of the party votes.

The new party tries to create a political shift where by more than half the senators are in the new party and more than half of the House are also. They start to create new laws addressing the grievances.

We try to allow the political process to work.

Lobbyists, corporations, banks are all cut out of the new party. Only members of the party can vote on party matters. The consensus once reached is acted out of the new party.

All party members only serve 1 term in the Senate and/or 1 term in the House.

Some might say this sounds, communistic, or socialist, actually its very democratic and a necessity.

The main goal is to strip the federal government, banks, finance systems, insurance, and pharmaceuticals of its power.

The goals are obvious, stop wars, address the grievances, create lawful measures to prevent us from falling back to where we are now.

Once a new level playing ground is created, and close to 65-75% of the population is or counted as active members measures will have been created to allow a more harmonious society.

Can any of this happen? Only if a framework is created to reap the masses of disenfranchised and unite their voice.

Timing and patience will be the markers.

Timing: Unemployment goes up, food prices go up, government blatantly ignores the people and continues stupid obvious mistakes governed by greed and malfeasance.

Perhaps there is already a political party in place that is doing some of this?

Imagine 1000 fortified compounds around the US working in unison.

Patience: Is it possible? If they start another war, if they in act martial law, if they in act conscription and if unemployment continues to climb, the people might be made ready once they have nothing to lose.

If the federal government starts imprisoning, killing, labeling as domestic terrorists members of the said party well then that changes the ballgame.

What would give credence to said party is if they all together stated and started doing 10 things.

1) stopped paying taxes "this would be recognized as a show of political discontent"
2) soldiers refused deployment
3) People stop following the law of the land in regard to the federal government
4) In essence these founding fathers and mothers would have to explicitly state,

"Until these grievances are met, until our party is recognized, until we have a voice we will refuse to participate in the law of the land."

These founding fathers and mothers would have to be prepared to be jailed, hung, shot and burned.

That is where the security comes in to play. A 1000 wacos would chill the world and show the true face of US tyranny. "It eats its own."

Now the real question is are there any political figures already in the system we could form behind?

Is there in this great country of 300 million, One thousand five hundred willing to die.

Part of the grievances would declare some as treasonous to the state and would be declared "wanted" for criminal investigation.

This party would enact through the courts, lawful charges on current and past members of the federal government.

Radio, talk shows, and a audience with foreign states would be sought through the party.

If none of this works you will find three options.

1) Become a slave.
2) Be one of those who manages the slaves.
3) Become a Iraqi living in Iraq, or a Afghan fighting Russia or USA

For a decent model of how to survive if peaceful does not work. We should study how the Iraq population has organized their neighborhoods and well as the Afghans.

Peaceful means first, working within the system first. If that fails it will be obvious and that only leaves being labeled a domestic terrorist or slave.

I will now quote "FortAnthem" for I think it is the basis and beginning:

"Our forefathers petitioned the English govt for years seeking redress for their grievances. By diong this, they got their case out before the public, the English govt and the world.

By the time it came to violent conflict, the world had been put on notice regarding the grievances of the patriots, thus making it harder for the English to paint the colonists as terrorists.

We need to pursue every avenue of peaceful discourse before escelating to massive protests and (hopefully not necessary) violent conflict.

The colonists only fought back after the English marched to disarm the militias at Lexington and Concord. If blood must be shed, it should be clear that the Govt fired the 1st shot. If we start the shooting war we'll be branded as terrorists and radicals. If the govt shoots 1st we can claim self defence.

By making our case public we create understanding of our cause so that, if the day comes when armed conflict becomes necessary, we might be able to rally others to the justness of our cause. Once the shooting war begins TPTB will cut off our access to the MSM.

We need to get our message out now."

And I quote "Chett" who also posted in this thread and offers a peaceful beginning.

"There is plenty that can be done before the guns come out. We need the majority of the people to get behind things.
1. take all your money out of banks
2. a national general strike
3. A pots and pans protest (Iceland did a great job with this one)
4. Buying boycotts
5. recalls (wherever local laws have a method)

I am sure there are more but it is a start."



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 04:51 AM
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reply to post by jaundice
 



It seems you must have pondered a lot or have read some form of book on the methods of instituting a scheme.

Everyone you speak of does not have much to lose. Is this some form of the Alinskey model for radicals?

But, we need to waken everyone from this sleep. The blatant exemption of government and the unions to this new HEALTH CARE TAX is something we must use against them.

My God, talk about narcissistic and corrupt laws. No one in their right minds can in anyway shape or form think this is righteous.

Imagine someone in government explaining on all the networks that the government, unions and bribed states will not have to pay this tax. That is what it is. A tax. No if and or buts, no damn obfuscations can convince me this is not blatant bribery of the people that vote for the Democratic Party. And that damn Republican party is no better. They have led us down this damn road too.

Yes, we need to write a new Declaration of Grievances and setup a new party RIGHT NOW. Not tomorrow, not next week, NOW.


Anyway, attempting to recruit is against T&C. Thanks for your comment.





[edit on 1/16/2010 by endisnighe]



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 05:35 AM
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reply to post by jaundice
 


OMG
this is exactly the evil. you copied all this from Marx I would assume, or perhaps Alinisky?



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 07:11 AM
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I am sorry but i must agree with everyone else that has said it, you are talking about it which is good and all but as the saying goes "talk is cheap" you want to put your talking to good use?

Make a forum site of your own, load it down with information and get people concerned from this forum onto that forum. From there you talk it up and start planning "peaceful protests" and "public rallys" in locations convenient for your members (really only works if you live in the US), have groups of members in different regions prostest on the same day and all the others to gain local media attention.

Have members hand out fliers at their local grocery store and gas stations. I myself work at a gas station and get so many customers a day it's insane. If just a few of those people express interest it still adds to the fire.

After awhile of public awareness and media coverage start asking people to get in touch with their congressman talk to the people that run your state! Those people hate our Government every bit as much as you do.

Get yours states involved, they have power. If this group of people can get their states to start talking to one another then eventually the heads of our states can begin to confront our "Federal Government", which is the real problem. That will be your revolution right there, if the 50 states said no more and did something about it.

From that point we can put in place a new Government.

So to recap...
1- Get off ATS and make a forum.
2- Get people involved. (hand out fliers. Discuss issues, plan protests, etc"
3- Engage in peaceful protests.(media coverage, gain support)
4- Engage State Officials. (Send letters and e-mails, call them)
5- Encourage heads of state to challenge our current Government. (As per the peoples requests)

Now, if our Government will not allow us to speak, then we know that we are a voiceless nation.. In that instance we will have possibly 50 very upset states full of very pissed off people. If the peoples of these states unified and organized itself into one unit then i ask you, what would the federal government do exactly? Send the US Army after us? WE ARE THE ARMY!

Of course this is all theoretical.. And it all starts with just one of you to start the chain reaction.

Now you may be saying, "Ok ya smartass then why dont you make the forum and start the revolution?!" Well to be completely honest with you there are leaders and there are followers.. I am a follower and i will admit it. In every revolutin there is a leader and thats not me.

Good Luck.

[edit on 16-1-2010 by kraig87]

[edit on 16-1-2010 by kraig87]



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 07:18 AM
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Heres the #1 problem with everything...

We have litigated and red taped and paperworked our way into a hole that we cant get out of. The past 100 years has built up to a point where anything above waving a sign is considered terrorism by enough people that it makes it true.

You want to organize 100 people to abandon their jobs for a day? Fine. Ive got 300 out of work, well qualified applicants ready to take your spot. They will come into the factory and work hard for 3/4 of what I have to pay you. They will work hard without complaining because now they can buy a loaf of bread for their starving family.

You stop paying your taxes? Fine. Ill lock you up in prison. This will create jobs for construction of the new prison and the correctional officers to staff it. People that do pay their taxes will hail me as a hero as i have saved entire communities with well paying jobs.

Boycotts...Heh! The money all filters to a handful of spots anyways. Try boycotting Walmart...go ahead try it. Ill bet that if you organize 100 people to boycott Walmart 80 of them would be in the store the next day.

Unfortunately, the only way we could ever restart would be major MAJOR disaster. Im talking *Dont take the trash out without wearing your rifle* disaster



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 07:55 AM
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reply to post by kraig87
 


reply to post by BingeBob
 


Your post was good, but not quite anything to do with my OP.

Did you read it? Where did I ask what to do?

Do you agree with my grievances?

And let me post my questions for you, again.




Where do you think they have the lists, that have the different levels of threats against the tyrants?

Do we allow this to continue?

Do we allow an unelected and tyrannical system to takeover, in the stead of; the absolute freedom and self governance the forefathers envisioned for us?

What say you America and the World, do we allow them to continue?



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 08:04 AM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


While my post wasnt directed at your OP it still holds validity on the OP. It was more a reply to others that have posted their ideas on the thread.

The point is, is that we are helpless to the machine until the wrench gets tossed in the gears. (Unfortunately the wrench cant be thrown by humans IMHO)

I dont know about an actual list of any kind...Seems to me that they would just deal with people on a first come/first imprison basis.

Funny. In 1774 the colonists coordinated a revolution using nothing but word of mouth and a pen and paper to rally people. With advances in communication we should be able to rally millions in a matter of days.

[edit on 16-1-2010 by BingeBob]



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