Norway spiral in China today

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha
reply to post by Psychoses

 

*THAT* is very interesting.

That eye of yours... works well !

When mainstream media writers turn up to lace threads with government explanations it only lends more weight to the theory that things are not as they seem.

reply to post by Warrior of Light


Unexplained weather events are not uncommon during periods of techtonic stress , also worth noting that in the example you provide from China, the air quality may have something to do with the appearance of those clouds. As you are no doubt aware chemicals in the atmosphere can cause different light refractions, and therefore different hues in clouds. Worth keeping in mind that in China, you have to look good and hard to find a clean patch of air bigger than a motor car lol.

Originally posted by SerialLurker
reply to post by Evasius

 

The image probably doesn't appear to be a spiral as this looks like it's only a still from video footage - a fraction of a second - not a timelapse photograph like the Norway spiral.

Re-reading the thread because I'm sure I missed some aspects of the topic, but I have to say NOT ALL the images of the Norway spiral were Timelapse. Some were obviously not and it still retained the spiral shape.

I posted this in one of the numerous threads about it, with the image showing cars driving by with no blur/distortion effect but still showing a fully formed spiral image.

Just hoping to clear some things up because I'm sooo tired of half truths being upheld as gospel in either direction for or against.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by Warrior of Light

 

Unexplained weather events are not uncommon during periods of techtonic stress , also worth noting that in the example you provide from China, the air quality may have something to do with the appearance of those clouds. As you are no doubt aware chemicals in the atmosphere can cause different light refractions, and therefore different hues in clouds. Worth keeping in mind that in China, you have to look good and hard to find a clean patch of air bigger than a motor car lol.

Have a look at the satellite image
geology.com...

If anything Western China is one of the least polluted area, if the satellite image wasn't enough

Here, this is where the light ball flew over,
img.ifeng.com...

The light ball was observed by people from different locations, they are

1-Tuokesun county- population is around 110,000
2-Mulei County -population is around 90,000
3-Tianshan Grand Canyon, the main population there are tourists
www.fgly.cn...

So, none of the sightings were made in metropolitan areas. If pollution played any role on the sighting of the mysterious light, I would say it’s next to neglectable.

And tell you what, even in Beijing we have beautiful outskirts with clear blue sky, the pollution level only rises in the metropolitan area of the municipality. Take for example the Mentougou district where my grandfather’s village lies, it’s a mostly mountainous district which is located in the west of Beijing where we have the highest point for the municipality (2300 meters above sea level),
www.bbker.com...

You see, I get more than a motor car sized clean patch of air in Beijing. I’m sure you will get plenty more in Xinjiang.


[edit on 16-1-2010 by sunsky]

reply to post by ainsley




ok...there you go. Rocket/Missile theorists go pound sand.
So, WTF is going on?
I am voting HAARP...I think other options may be too scary to even consider.

edit to add Ainsley's link:

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 16-1-2010 by justine093]

My new theory on the Norway spiral is that it was aliens stealing our atmosphere. They would not want Chinese air as it is full of burnt coal dust.

reply to post by sunsky


I stand thusly corrected. I am suprised however that the toxic smog that hangs over the cities doesnt travel and or dissapate into the atmosphere of the whole nation , and surrounding territories. Although I suppose in high concentrations it might fall as rain before traveling to far? Meh. Thanks for the heads up on that.
The areas you mention seem a feast for the eyes. The image with the rocky vista, makes me want to climb something

reply to post by spungy


I have found it all over China's TV news, I believed that the China government has already using the media to "comfort" people on this by selected just two bad image photos from the public & telling missile test lie. Otherwise, officials will release at least part of the related missile test video/photos & place & time to backup their claims.

v.sogou.com... =&name=&rturl=&dtype=&ds=&provider=&key=

v.youku.com...

video.sina.com.cn...

Originally posted by Psychoses
You come to ATS to sniff out story ideas, then go and write up some half thought out misleading propaganda and then come back to ATS to use the same story to back up your "views"(not to mention gaining a valuable back link for search engine indexing), all the while failing to disclose to the members of ATS that you are in fact the author of the article you are referencing.

... Very misleading on your part Jim!

Let's see, I use my real name, and have the same name and photo on my published articles, and you use a pseudonym -- and I'm the one who's being misleading? Thanks for the morning chuckle.

I have dug out -- and published -- more solid new evidence about major world UFO reports than anybody else I've encountered here at ATS, and it's the nature of that evidence -- stuff that calls into question ideas you enjoy believing -- that you object to, seems to me.

ATS is a wonderful resource for fresh info, fresh ideas, and solid, candid debates -- but many folks just seem to use it to reenforce their own pre-existing biases. It's really good for much more than that, for the intellectually courageous -- of whom there are a lot on these threads.

What new stuff has come out of China in the last 24 hours? That's of current and urgent concern, as the govt there clamps down.

Originally posted by Warrior of Light

I have yet to see ANY video footage of ANY missile/rocket behaving like the people in Norway and China have described. Do you know of any videos which would constitute evidence of how missiles are capable of these phenomena?

This is known as the 'argument from personal ignorance'. You don't know it, so you won't believe it.

The spiral phenomenon has been reported from Russia and China for decades, often associated with rocket launchings which were successful -- payload in orbit, that sort of mission. That's why I question the facile explanation that the Norway spiral was due to the third stage failure rather than some 'normal' feature of solid fuel upper stages, such as momentum dumping on less than full range test flights.

Previous reports and drawings are not of the quality of the Tromso imagery, probably because of the much wider availability of pocket camcorders these days compared to the 1980s. Demanding same-quality imagery from much-less-well-equipped witnesses is unfair, I suggest.

I have links to some of the earlier imagery, which was posted on the Norway spiral threads -- I'll try to set them up on my home page and provide them for you since you clearly missed the first time they were provided on ATS and need a catch-up class.

Originally posted by Warrior of Light
Fine, rockets were launched. That doesn't mean that those same rockets created the phenomena. For all you know, the rockets had absolutely NO correlation to the phenomena. You're simply believing, and agreeing with, the explanation put forward by the government/military. I'm looking for a plausible explanation, and if that happens to be the rocket explanation, then great. At this point, I still feel that the government/military is lying and giving us a BS excuse. But I can assure you, my mind most certainly isn't closed. A closed minded person would probably buy into the official story, and post comments that promote the notion that we should all "move along", because "there's nothing to see here." I'm all for discussion.

You really need to get more familiar with my published work re the unjustified slam about 'simply believing what the gummint tells us'. I was the whistle blower who walked out of my NASA Houston job in 1997 after testifying before Congress that NASA was castrating its own safety standards for political purposes and was going to kill somebody if they didn't reverse course. I won national magazine awards for unveiling the real causes of the 1999 Mars fleet debacle -- the 'different units' cover story was a diversionary ploy [and became the only writer ever denounced BY NAME in a NASA press release for 'nutty' ideas]. I've been out of step with mainstream thinking on almost every major theme of space activities for decades -- and usually wind up vindicated. It's a track record I'm proud of, based on a methodology I've come to rely on, so I don't cotton to some snotnose whining about me being some simpleton dupe of gummint liars.

You can choose to open your eyes and your mind, or not -- people here have been doing either for a long time. But this forum is extraordinary in its opportunities for revolutionary thinking about dogmas of all schools, and it's been fun in the give-and-take of theorizing and investigating. And educational, for me, and occasionally, for others.

You've got the passion, you've got the gift of expression, you have knowledge -- your messages show that. With improved attitudes, you can really make constructive contributions here and in wider arenas -- and a lot of folks who sounded just like you now sound have become colleagues and friends of mine. I could use them -- there's a whole lot of work out there for independent thinkers.

Sort of like....


Luke, I am your father.... [tee hee]

Originally posted by ChineseGuy
according to the explanation issued by authority, these were missile experiments.

Links, please. I have seen no quotation from Chinese authorities on this.

Hseih hsieh ni.

Originally posted by Psychoses
When mainstream media writers turn up to lace threads with government explanations it only lends more weight to the theory that things are not as they seem.

A useful criterion I've found is to assess the mindset of somebody who has ready-made excuses for BOTH different outcomes of a situation. They have prepared defenses against ANY manifestation of reality.

Somebody with professional familiarity with a subject offers comments and opinions?

Easy: "We're closer to the truth, they're trying to squelch our inquiry."

Nobody with professional familiarity with a subject offers comments and opinions?

Easy: "They have to answers! We're closer to the truth!"

Try it. If somebody is obviously prepared to whine about either of two diametrically opposite situations, and would claim that EITHER would prove him right -- you're dealing with one sick puppy.

reply to post by JimOberg



I've just seen most TV news about this issue in China.
Every media only said that China government had a missile experiment NEAR those places etc,
NO authorities or officials said that what so many people saw WAS their missile experiment.

Im not a scientist or anything of the sorts, but could it be a HARRP type tool used to create some type of large scale magnetic vortex for some unkown purpose. The spiral clouds could be simply particles being drawn up or down in it? Any thoughts? By the way I appreciate professionals such as yourself coming here and sharing your thoughts it help us little people out.

reply to post by JimOberg

ATS is a wonderful resource for fresh info, fresh ideas, and solid, candid debates -- but many folks just seem to use it to reenforce their own pre-existing biases.

You mean like this.

Probably because it WAS over Russia -- or over international waters off the northern coast of Russia.
NEVER over Norway.
NEVER over Finland.
NEVER over your apartment, so you can put the tinfoil hat away.

Written like a true journalist.

but many folks just seem to use it to reenforce their own pre-existing biases.

You are being a hypocrite.

You are never going to convince everyone here of your bias ideas. So why don't you just stop already.
We know you like the Chinese and Russian's "official" smoke and mirrors story.

Have you yourself witnessed UFO or extra dimensional entity? When you do get back to us. I am not saying that these phenomenon are either of those. I still don't know, just questioning what we are being told.


Edit to add: I see your work goes through MSNBC. Now there is a network with an agenda. I trust them as far as I can throw them. I don't know what your agenda is, besides trolling here to get readers to your site.




[edit on 16-1-2010 by timewalker]

Okay, for anyone who's interested I emailed my friend, and through the wonders of some program that hacks facebook (which by the way is ridiculously annoying, if it wasnt banned over there it would probably be 10x easier to get info) he managed to tell me what it was he saw.

He only managed to see the last couple of minutes of it, but he was talking to some guy who had already been out there watching it, and he told him what he saw before that. I have to point out though that my friend doesnt speak fluent chinese, and this is just basically the jist of what the guy said:

Whatever it was looked a bit like a dull star, and then gradually got bigger & brighter. During that time it turned from golden to white. It was moving slowly, but apparantly it didnt look like its movement was 'intelligent'.

The next bit is what my friend told me he saw:

It was white in colour & quite bright. He couldnt really describe the size, but he said it wasnt any bigger than the moon would be. After a couple of minutes it slowed down almost to a complete stop & seemed to angle slightly downwards, whilst at the same time fading and turning a blueish colour. It eventually disappeared, and in his exact words 'it looked like it burnt out'. He said there wasnt an obvious spiralling, but the centre of it did appear to be moving.
Oh and apparantly there was some sort of haze around it. But he only saw it when the thing started to fade.

He didnt take any pictures because according to him it wasnt that interesting, but some other people were so hopefully there'll be some better quality pictures popping up soon instead of that blue one, and the green streetlamp.

So yea, thats what he had to say. Only things that seem different to the other accounts is that he didnt see anything spiralling and there was no red/green colours involved. If anyone wants to ask any specific questions about it then I can pass them on to him.

reply to post by Bluebelle


Can you ask him what time he saw the event?

This is my theory on the rocket explanation.

Rockets much larger than a sidewinder simply do not have such spiraling capabilities. We simply do not have the materials capable of building a rocket with adequate structural integrity for such a maneuver as this spiral. This is why there is no film footage or photos of any other rockets making maneuvers necessary to create such a perfect spiral.

In addition, the controls that enable what maneuvering capability that exists are limited in their range so as prevent the rocket from being over steered.

Here is a video of rocket failures. Notice, no spirals.

www.youtube.com...

Second, if it was a rocket spiraling, then at some angle you would see a funnel, but this spiral looks approximately the same from all angles, up and down the length of Norway. How could this be?

To be the least bit effective and stay in the air this rocket would need to be flying at least at hyperspeed, or Mach 5, which means about a mile a second. I couldn't find any specific information, but for the typical maneuver of a large rocket capable of flying hundreds of kilometers, and creating such a large spiral, in my opinion, completing a 360 turn for one spiral would take at least two minutes, probably more like five minutes or more, but even it this missile was moving slow for a missile, and had exceptional maneuvering capabilities, we are looking at a 30 mile circumference at the minimum. This would mean that the tightest spiral would be around 10 miles, or 16 KM in diameter, and would be complete over a distance of 30 miles or 48 km.

I find it hard to believe that this would look anything like the spiral we see in these numerous photos.This spiral was seen for for ten minutes. In ten minutes, flying at possible minimum speed, the rocket would have traveled close to 600 miles or a thousand km for only one revolution.

Then there is the problem that this spiral was seen all over Norway, but not in Sweden, not in Finland, and not in Russia where it should have been much more visible. If the rocket was fired in the area where the Russians claimed, the White Sea, then people all around this sea should have seen this spiral. We would be calling it the Russian spiral, not the Norway spiral.

Claims that this was a failed rocket test are preposterous, and that Russia would make a statement that this was a test rocket that misfired only adds to the mystery.

Now there are numerous videos of such events coming out. Maybe there could be some giant fireworks type of thing going on, where they fire a rocket, and it explodes in some giant spiral like a fireworks display, but failed missile test, that has been repeated several time?

If the Chinese are doing some experiments with such a rocket, why would the Russians do something that for some strange reason is seen by Norway, but not reported by Sweden of Finland, or Russians in the area? The rocket theroy makes no sense.

I would think phenomenon of nature, some sort of Northern lights plasma type of event.

Why would Russia publicly announce that it was a rocket test fire?

One possibility, Russia has designed this type of system as an anti-ballistic missile defense system that creates a large shield in which the incoming missile is expected to enter, and now it is announcing it to the U.S.?

Apparently, China has also been developing a similar system?

I must be a paranoid here, i am thinking that someone is punching a hole in the earths upper atmosphere and/or disturbing earths magnetic field (protective). For now its just tests but when the solar storms hits earth in late 2012 (see Dr. Michio Kaku) it can be used to fry some parts of the earth completely. I know others have the same ideas/thoughts, some people mention HAARP but i don't know enough about such technology to make any assumptions, I know of the EISCAT Ramfjordmoen facility through media (like ATS) however and it's interesting it is located in Norway. Anyone else in this thread have the same gut feeling, that something is at fault ? Add all those bunkers being built for 2012 (private and government, the huge one below Denver Airport for example) and you will begin to ask questions too.

[edit on 16-1-2010 by rhines]