Image Of WTC 7 Shows Core Columns Neatly Piled after Demolition.

This is a 9/11 conspiracy forum. Whats up with all the kool-aid drinkers?

If you don't think there is a conspiracy maybe this isn't the right forum for you.

Why are people so quick to defend our 'innocent' government that never gets caught lying?

And for the record.. Thermite cutter charges can work sideways. They can slice through steel girders like cheese. They can also be detonated controllably.

If you don't think our military industrial complex has the power, the money, the resources, and the skills to makes these thermite cutter devices, you are obviously deluded.

But we already knew that...

[edit on 17-1-2010 by seattletruth]

reply to post by dereks


That's a good point for consideration. Those 'meteorites' are about all I've seen to suggest any molten steel (with an actual sample that can be analysed).

Let's say there was a tiny trickle of molten steel into the basement under WTC7 (or the other buildings for that matter) that amounted to the piddling rate of 1 litre/second average for 3 months. That would produce over 7500 cubic metres of solidifed steel needing removal - anyone see that mentioned anywhere?

EDIT - should learn to use a calculator more often

[edit on 17/1/2010 by Pilgrum]

reply to post by seattletruth


Relax a bit. It's not even my government you question here but I have no particular affection for politicians anywhere for that matter.

These thermite cutter charges:
All I've seen of them is a patent application some time ago so what we need is an example of such a 'sideways' cut done this way for comparison with any of the 'suspicious' cuts in WTC building vertical core columns. What I've seen of thermite damage makes me quite sure there'll be very significant differences between them but I'll concede to contrary evidence if anyone can provide it.

Show something we can all agree on and you'll then have something solid to work with.

"another problem, there was actually no molten pools of metal found"

According to these hero firefighters there was molten steel. But maybe we should believe anonymous internet posters instead who make ridiculous statements without verifying them.

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by Shadow Herder

 

Why ?

Once building loses structural integrity gravity will take over and pull building down - center of building fell first, as shown by penthouse on
roof falling first before rest of structure follows it

lol...and ...HOW does an isolated collapse on lower floors..'pull' globally, 47 floors...in order to get the EVEN DESCENT of the entire building WE ALL SEE....
how can WE SEE the entire building descending at around 60MPH at 4.0 seconds of the collapse?

Sunder agrees that the wreckage was tidy and explained why. "If you look at columns 79, 80 and 81 [three of the building's central columns], the floor area that they're carrying is very large—particularly column 79, which was carrying about 2000 sq. ft. of floor area." Column 79 was the first column to fail. "It was an interior column that failed, followed by two more interior columns [80 and 81], then east to west. So what you're seeing is an interior collapse, then to the outside. What you're getting is an impression of a controlled demolition, but it's not."

and YOU are repeating a HYPOTHESIS, that is based on.....NO EVIDENCE in which to arrive at the HYPOTHESIS?

this is ALSO what MR Sunder says...

Shyam Sunder the lead investigator for the NIST had to say about free fall ACCELERATION, in an interview at around three min into the vid.posted below...

"free fall acceleration can ONLY occur when there is NO STRUCTURAL COMPONENTS BELOW IT"

watch?v=V0GHVEKrhng&feature=channel_page

so what happened to 100+ft. of vertical support that the facade IS attached to, to have occur, what WE ALL SEE.....the EVEN decent, as fast as falling through AIR

If was "controlled demolition" why no sounds of explosions? Hokey Smokes Bullwinkle - must have been using silent explosives!

lol...and, IF it were FIRE that did this....WE WOULD SEE IT...must have been...'invisible' fire...

[NCSTAR1A-3.2]"It is likely that much of the burning took place beyond the views of the windows"



seems funny we are TOLD there is massive inferno......but WHERE is it?

NO PICS....NO VIDEO of ANY kind of sustained consistent inferno needed to fall the structure at a rate equilibration with the acceleration of gravity...even NIST couldn't find any of the illusive..'inferno' pics, so...they had to DRAW ILLUSTRATIONS, to convince of their illusion/hypothesis

and then idiots like you, post well,"look at all the smoke".......so

what is the FORCE to affect EVERY vertical perimeter support, not only that the facade is attached to, but, one end of every roof truss sits on them...

according to NIST.....the other penthouse, the HVAC, roof, would all "just float" till every vertical support is removed to achieve the recorded descent of ACCELERATION.....

but, only ONE removed support fell the East penthouse...according to the ...HYPOTHESIS

Sunder said that his team investigated these hypothetical causes and ruled them out. "We asked ourselves what is the minimum amount of charge we could use to bring the building down," he said. "And we found that even the smallest charge would release an extremely loud sound heard half a mile away." There were no reports of such a sound; numerous observers and video recordings found the collapse to be relatively quiet.

great....then provide the testing results done on the steel, for, in a scientific investigation of the worst crime on American soil.......why would they ....NOT....test the steel?

NFPA 921: "Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations" is the national fire code published by The National Fire Protection Association.
This is standard for fire and explosion investigations.

It clearly states that if there is a crime scene that involves fire, tests must be conducted to determine whether residues from any pyrotechnic or incendiary material can be found.

surly they would not eliminate something ...from just the OPINION of ONE...INSTEAD of testing

Originally posted by Pilgrum
reply to post by dereks

 

That's a good point for consideration. Those 'meteorites' are about all I've seen to suggest any molten steel (with an actual sample that can be analyzed).

Let's say there was a tiny trickle of molten steel into the basement under WTC7 (or the other buildings for that matter) that amounted to the piddling rate of 1 litre/second average for 3 months. That would produce over 7500 cubic meters of solidified steel needing removal - anyone see that mentioned anywhere?

you don't have to "suppose"...it is FACT and ALL 3, two ton balls are still in a hanger at JFK airport that were discovered under ALL 3 collapsed, 7 weeks AFTER 9-11

what was the INITIAL temp, to keep theses MOLTEN...weeks later?

reply to post by hgfbob


I was aware of the 'meteorites' but not of their current location - thanks for that. From the pics I've seen they appear to be conglomerates of many materials including *some* iron/steel but I would like to see a breakdown of their exact composition if it's available. It might be considered virtual heresy by some, superfluous by others to go cutting into them though.

what was the INITIAL temp, to keep theses MOLTEN...weeks later?

Firstly, what makes you believe they were maintained in a molten state for weeks?

I know what you're getting at but it doesn't add up for steel to be heated to a sufficiently high temp for it to remain in liquid form for weeks when in contact with the ground (ambient earth temp about 15C). It would need to be heated far above vaporisation temp for that to have a chance and in that case it would escape as a vapour anyway. You may say it was well insulated but such insulators are not likely to be found in the rubble of a NYC building, maybe purpose built for JPL but that's overly stretching things I'd say.

Molten material dribbling into porous loosely packed rubble & dust could achieve the same result but it would need to be solidifying very quickly after contact to build up such a solid ball-like mass. Just 1 piece of unmelted aluminium or anything else with a melting point below that of steel found within the 'meteorites' would prove that they were not at the temperature of molten steel 2500C for very long, if at all.

Originally posted by Pilgrum
Firstly, what makes you believe they were maintained in a molten state for weeks?

Well the facts and evidence for one.

Photos of molten steel beams and a video of a fire chief stating the temps were over 1500 degrees at least 6 weeks later.



[edit on 17-1-2010 by REMISNE]

reply to post by REMISNE


Which proves there were fires, if that really needs proving.

Is the 1500 degrees fahrenheit or celcius?

Here's a fact - steel does not melt or remain molten at that temperature in either scale. Repeated thermal imaging didn't reveal any temperatures over 2500C (4500F) that I know of (a temperature indicative of an active thermitic reaction).



[edit on 17/1/2010 by Pilgrum]

Originally posted by Pilgrum
Which proves there were fires, if that really needs proving.

You mean the oxygen starved office fires that were burning out before the towers collapsed?

Here's a fact - steel does not melt or remain molten at that temperature in either scale.

Here are more facts, a few photos of molen steel

i114.photobucket.com...

i114.photobucket.com...


Yet more facts, video of fire chief.
www.youtube.com...



[edit on 17-1-2010 by REMISNE]

reply to post by REMISNE


What about the 1500 degrees Ultima1 - Fahrenheit or Celcius?

We've been over it many times and there's no evidence of temperatures measured much over 1000C which is sufficient to get steel to bright red heat just like the (unmolten) steel being held in the jaws of an excavator. I won't rule out that there could have been some extreme hotspots that were missed by the scanning but they'd be very isolated and small to escape aerial detection repeatedly. We have proof that the fires were very hot in places and things have been known to melt in such fires.

Originally posted by Pilgrum

What about the 1500 degrees Ultima1 - Fahrenheit or Celcius?

Well Fahrenheit. But you need to answer my question.

You mean the oxygen starved office fires that were burning out before the towers collapsed? So what kept the high temps for several weeks?

We've been over it many times and there's no evidence of temperatures measured much over 1000C which is sufficient to get steel to bright red heat just like the (unmolten) steel being held in the jaws of an excavator.

Funny how the steel in the jaws of the excavator is dripping, molten hot.




[edit on 17-1-2010 by REMISNE]

Originally posted by Sean48

Actually , Thermite is being talked about because it was found in trace
amounts in the dust and debris.
A byproduct of Thermite is it is a quiet "burn',

Jones has now claimed that the sooper-dooper-nanu-nanu-thermite was only used as a fuse for conventional cutter charges.

Does that sound like a ridiculous way to set off cutter charges, given that thermite is MORE difficult to set off than just setting off cutter charges with time tested and proven conventional means?

Why would anyone put an extra step into the process?

Originally posted by Joey Canoli

Why would anyone put an extra step into the process?

You have to remember , that we are working backwards , trying to piece
together what happened.

If the Government decided to give us a New Investigation then all this
speculation and investigation could end.

Neither side on this issue can say 100% what happened, so we do what we do.

reply to post by Sean48


You said that thermite was used cuz it's silent. That would actually make sense, and shows some rationality.

But once you include explosives in the theory, ALSO using thermite dips into irrationality.

Originally posted by Joey Canoli
reply to post by Sean48

 

You said that thermite was used cuz it's silent. That would actually make sense, and shows some rationality.

But once you include explosives in the theory, ALSO using thermite dips into irrationality.

Even tho I worked as a miner , and used explosives, I don't feel I can talk
enough about types of explosives used , for the purpose of demolition.

In mining , we used Amex and Tovex, both very loud, and we used
blasting caps.

Until 911 , I had never heard of a Cutter Charge, so what was done to bring
down a building is a grey area for me.

Originally posted by Sean48

If the Government decided to give us a New Investigation then all this
speculation and investigation could end.

Why must the guv do it? It's just setting up the whole job for fail, in truthers eyes. There's no way out:

1- the guv needs to be involved in order to subpeona blueprints, videos, photos, etc. When it comes back that there are zero substatntial changes to 9/11 - that is hijackers > planes > buildings > fire > collapse - truthers will then say that the guv is involved and the report can't be trusted. Rinse and repeat.

2- if there is no guv involved, then access to those blueprints, videos, photos will be limited to those citizens that agree to give access to that info. Then truthers will cry about how there is a coverup etc. Rinse and repeat.

Originally posted by Sean48

Even tho I worked as a miner , and used explosives, I don't feel I can talk
enough about types of explosives used , for the purpose of demolition.

In mining , we used Amex and Tovex, both very loud, and we used
blasting caps.

Until 911 , I had never heard of a Cutter Charge, so what was done to bring
down a building is a grey area for me.

Do you see the irrationality of using cutter charges AND thermite?

Especially since any rational explanation of using an unproven technology in building demo - which thermite has never been used for, nor even been demonstrated to even be able to - would be unnecessarily............ stupid.

Originally posted by Joey Canoli


Do you see the irrationality of using cutter charges AND thermite?

Especially since any rational explanation of using an unproven technology in building demo - which thermite has never been used for, nor even been demonstrated to even be able to - would be unnecessarily............ stupid.

No its not stupid.

We all have seen CD on television, they make them up like a big event
with fireworks , make a show out of it.

Never before was there a CD job that had to be done with Stealth, so of
course they wouldn't use conventional methods.

Originally posted by Sean48

Never before was there a CD job that had to be done with Stealth, so of
course they wouldn't use conventional methods.

You're ignoring the fact that Jones has admitted that his thermite theory would be useless to help collapse the building. And that he has now advocated cutter charges.

That means no stealth, once you do the work to find out how much RDX would be needed for a single errant charge.